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Search the Scriptures Daily Program #4006a Transcript follows: Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael, thanks for tuning in. Coming up in this today’s edition in our Understanding the Scripture segment, Dave and Tom will continue their in-depth study of the Book of Acts, and, “What made the church in Antioch rejoice?” In Religion in the News, “A democratic Iraq.” We’ll take a look at that story and examine the question: “Can people still be demon possessed?” We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials, including books, tracts, audio and video tapes and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disk. You may also subscribe to our monthly Newsletter, which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s Cover Article. We continue our series of programs based on Dave Hunt’s book, When Will Jesus Come? This week we address the question: “What will earth be like at the Rapture?” Along with Dave Hunt, here is T. A. McMahon. Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. This is the feature article of our program and our topic is and has been Dave Hunt’s book, When Will Jesus Come? subtitled: Compelling Evidence For The Soon Return Of Christ. And if you have a copy and want to follow along with our discussion we’re beginning Chapter 14, titled: An Incredible Growing Delusion. Now Dave, you open this chapter by quoting Scriptures from Luke that indicate the condition on earth at the time of the Rapture. Let me read those, we’ll begin with Luke 17:26-30. “And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” “Luke 21:34-36, And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, (that is excessiveness) and drunkenness and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” Now, Dave, in these verses you say we have a powerful case for a pre-tribulation Rapture. How so? Dave: Well, obviously, these verses are taken from two different chapters, and there’s quite a contrast. You’re reading from what I quoted at the beginning of the chapter. And in the first one---thus shall it be in the day that the Son of Man is revealed---revealed to whom? Not to the whole world, revealed to His own. How do we know this is the Rapture, in contrast to the other one? The other one is talking about horrible conditions, trials, tribulation, destruction, great destruction coming upon the earth, and so they’re hoping that they will be delivered, counted of worthy and not to partake of that, and this will come like a snare on the whole earth. But the first one, it says they are buying and selling and building and planting and partying and marrying and eating and drinking, and you cannot imagine that at the end of the Great Tribulation, the world is practically destroyed. Yet, this is a time when the Son of Man will be revealed. Revealed, how? And, to whom? Obviously to His own. He said He would come and take them to His Father’s house of many mansions. So, this had to be the Rapture. For example, it says that the day that Lot departed from Sodom, fire and brimstone came upon them. That’s a picture of the Rapture. We leave. Christ takes His Bride out of this earth and then God’s judgment begins to come. And He said He would spare us from His wrath. Tom: Dave, so this can’t be talking about the Second Coming. All we have to do is look to Revelation 19 and even verses before that. But, life is not normal at the Second Coming. Right? There’s famine, there’s no eating and drinking and partying. Right? A third of the trees are burned up, a third of the ocean turns to blood, a third of the waters are poisonous. Dave: That’s way back in chapter 6 of . . Tom: Well, buying and selling, planting, building--normal. I mean, that’s not going to take place. And, as you said, over a billion people die and in chapter 6 in Revelation it talks about everyone on earth attempting to hide from God. Dave: Right. So, I don’t know what these people can say about this, post-tribers. Now, the reason I quoted Luke 17, is because, if you go to Matthew 24, it gives you pretty much the same words, except it says, “and the flood came and took them all away.” So they say, “see, they’re not being taken away to Heaven, they’re being taken away to judgment. Two will be sleeping in a bed, one is taken the other left. Two grinding in the mill, one taken, the other left. Two working the field, etc.” By the way, that’s an indication that the world was round. You wouldn’t have people sleeping and also working in the field, and grinding in the mill at the same time. So, these are different time zones that the Lord is referring to. But, how are you going to explain that? Well, they say well they’re taken away to judgment. What judgment is this? I don’t know what judgment that would be. The only judgment I read of is He gathers the nations together as in Matthew 25 before Him and He separates the sheep from the goats. Nothing about snatching people out of beds and out of fields and others are left. You can’t correlate that. So I go to Luke because there it doesn’t say the flood came and took them away. It says Lot was taken out and the judgment came. Now, it says, “thus will it be in the day that the Son of Man appears.” Well, there’s nothing about judgment. And, furthermore, as you said, Tom, the only way you can make it a judgment, you have to put it at the end of the great Tribulation. But that does not fit with the conditions. You know, it’s interesting that when it says, “as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be as it was in the days of Lot, etc.” We know. If you asked someone, what about the days of Noah, what about the days of Lot? The first thing that would come to their mind is the wickedness, the evil, violence, and so forth. This is what the Scripture tells us back in Genesis 6, and everyone is talking about the days of Noah. But that’s not what Jesus mentioned. He’s not commenting about the evil at all. He’s talking about the prosperity. The last thing they had in mind was judgment, never had judgment from God, and that’s what Jesus is emphasizing. They’re eating and drinking, and buying and selling, they are partying and planting and building, no judgment is expected. Tom, you could not possibly put that at the end of the Great Tribulation, as you have pointed out. I mean, what else would there be? They’ve had nothing but God’s wrath poured out upon this earth, and all the plagues, and so forth, and the world is terrified. And this is the condition upon this earth? No, couldn’t possibly be! There are two appearings therefore of Christ. The one is in 1 John Chapter 3---“Beloved, now are we the sons of God. It doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. Everyone that hath this hope in Him purifies himself.” So, this is at an appearing that He is going to transform the believers. He will appear to His own, and when we see Him we will be transformed into His likeness. Now, it only happens at the resurrection, it’s the only time it could. And along with the resurrection is the Rapture, but there is another appearing, and we read of it in other places. Revelation Chapter 1:7, Every eye shall see Him, and they also who pierced Him, and all the kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. That doesn’t make sense. The whole world sees Him? Well, that’s the first time that we see Him, it’s the first time that the saints who died in faith in Christ are resurrected, and we’re caught up. No, He’s on His way down. You get that in Matthew 24, beginning at Verse 29 and 30, like lightening across the sky, so shall be the coming of the Son of man at that day. He’s coming for judgment; He’s coming in power and glory. But there is a secret appearing---Aw, they mock that, oh, secret Rapture. Why not? When Joseph revealed himself, remember? to his brethren, he put all the Egyptians out, and they shut the doors, and there he was alone with his brethren, and he revealed himself to them. And that’s the way it will be. Christ will reveal Himself to His own, to His Bride. Catch us up, and there’s going to be a wedding in heaven. But that’s not the appearing that you get in Revelation Chapter 1:7. We talked about it last week, I think. Paul said---I think we kind of ended this way---Paul said: I fought a good fight, I finished my course, I’ve kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous judge shall give me in that day, 2 Timothy Chapter 4, and not to me only, but unto them also who love His appearing. I think we commented that I don’t see why you get a special reward for loving His appearing if we have been going through the Tribulation. What else would you look for? I mean, all of His own would love His appearing, not everybody. But certainly, the Christians would love His appearing at that point. They have been longing for His appearing. I don’t think you get a special reward for that. But if we love His appearing now when---oh, man, we just got married, Lord, let us at least have our honeymoon---we’re going to Hawaii, never been there before---we’ve got that camper now, we’ve got a boat upon top and bicycles on the back, and we’re going to travel around the country---Lord, couldn’t you wait, we don’t want to go to heaven just yet. You remember the story of the little boy in the front row, remember? and the preacher said: Everybody that wants to go to heaven, raise your hand, you remember that one? And everybody raised their hand except this little boy. And after his sermon the preacher sat down beside him there, he was sitting on the front row, and he said, Sonny, don’t you want to go to heaven? O, yes Sir, I do. But I asked for everyone who wanted to go to heaven to raise their hand, you didn’t raise your hand. O, sir, I thought you meant right now! So, heaven is a place everybody---well, I guess even the unsaved want to go there but they don’t want to go there on God’s terms. But heaven is a place we would like to go to, but not now. So, if we love His appearing now, there’s a special reward, Paul said. Tom: Dave, this is a tremendous teaching, a tremendous doctrine. We’ve been going over it for weeks and weeks now, yet you write: “As clear as the Scriptures are, the truth of the Rapture was largely lost for centuries.” Why is that? How did that happen? Dave: Well, it was known to a few, the persecuted ones, but you know, Tom, you were raised a Catholic, you know about the Catholic church, and even to evangelicals today, if you talk about apostasy they will say, Well, you’re saying that the whole church was in apostasy. You say the Catholic church was in apostasy. Well then, I guess Christ promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church, must have failed. Wait as minute, guys! The Catholic church is not the whole church. There were the Albagenzies, and the Valdenzies and the Bouganvilles, and the Catarri, and all these people who have been maligned as heretics, and so forth. The true church never gave---they were not Protestants, by the way, they never gave their allegiance to the Pope. They were evangelical, Bible-believing Christians, and they were hated and persecuted by the Catholic church. I’m sure they believed in the Rapture, but not the Catholic church, because the Catholic church was building an empire. Christ said: My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world my servants would fight, but they don’t fight. The Popes fought with armies and navies to build the---Well, only the Muslim kingdom exceeded it. They controlled the known world at that time, as you know, the wealth and the power. So, they’re building a kingdom on this earth. Their hope was not to go to heaven. Their hope was to build more power, and eventually they were going to take over the whole thing. And Tom, as you alluded, we have the same idea among evangelicals today. Tom: Well, Dave, let’s go back to the Reformation. Many of the reformers, most if not all were former Catholics. They brought too much of the teaching, although they cried out: Sola Scriptura, the Scriptures alone, so they were influenced greatly by Augustine, and Augustine dismissed the millenneal reign of Christ, and many other teachings. That’s part of the problem. Dave: In his book, The City of God, it’s all about a kingdom that He builds on this earth. So, the Rapture, if it was misunderstood---look, the church was not the first to make this mistake, because John the Baptist didn’t understand it, the disciples didn’t understand it. When Jesus said, I am going to go away and prepare a place for you---Lord, where are you going? We thought---. What are they arguing about? You know, Tom, we joke about this a little bit. The disciples had such low self esteem, you know, that’s the big problem, everybody has low self esteem back there with the disciples. Tom: They were elbowing over one another to find out where they were going to fit in this kingdom. Dave: Even after Christ said, One of you will betray Me, a little flurry of concern, and then the next thing you know, as you said, they are arguing about who will be the greatest in the kingdom? Who is going to be on the right hand? Who is going to be on the left? No, that’s the way we are saved, is by His death upon the cross. Okay. So, the church carried on in this way while the church, not the true church but the whole church was in apostasy, I mean the visible church. The underground church, the true church, they were walking with the Lord and understood His Word. How did it come about? A gentleman by the name of Constantine, who had enough sense to say, Why are we killing these Christians? We shouldn’t be persecuting them, they don’t get drunk, they don’t cause riots, they don’t start revolutions, maybe they could be an example to society. And he made---well, not officially, it was some years later, a few decades later that Roman Catholicism became the official religion of the empire. To get ahead in the government, to get ahead in the army and politics, and so forth, in business, you had to be a Christian. Tom: Dave, some decades later? I thought it more like centuries, in terms of Roman Catholic doctrine, and so on, dogmas. Dave: Well, Tom, I used the term Roman Catholicism, but it certainly wasn’t Christianity. It wasn’t officially known as Roman Catholicism, and they still had the bishop of Jerusalem, and the bishop of Antioch, and the bishop of here and there as well as the bishop of Rome. Although the bishop of Rome was trying his best to become the papa, but they were all called, papa, you know, everywhere. Tom: Papa, meaning Pope. Dave: Right, and he was pushing for it because this is the center, I mean, this is the capitol of the empire, so the bishop there ought to be the head bishop. And it wasn’t even accepted in the 11th century when the Pope excommunicated Michael Celularius, the patriarch of Constantinople, it had not yet been accepted by all of them. Nevertheless, Tom, it wasn’t a slip of the tongue, it was Catholicism, way back then. It was a false religion. They had turned the (Remus and Romulus), the guardians of Rome were Paul and Peter now, and the statues of Isis became Mary. I was just in the Vatican, St Peter’s, and, oh, Tom, you’ve been there, it’s pitiful. You remember the statue, bronze statue, supposedly of Peter, actually that was Jupiter in the Roman Empire, they just turned it to Peter. Tom: With a foot that vanished because of people rubbing it. Dave: They’re lined up to touch that or kiss that toe. Those toes have been worn off, solid bronze. So, it was Catholicism. Okay. It was made the official revision of the empire about 370, I think, somewhere around there. Tom: And totally rejected the Rapture. Now Dave, you also mentioned C. S. Lewis. Let’s bring it up to contemporary times. Dave: Well, in his book, The World’s Last Night, C. S. Lewis talks about the closing events of this earth. He doesn’t mention the Rapture. It was---Tom, it was---let me get back to, “not to be only, but unto all them that love His appearing.” It’s not normal for a worldly Christian, or a Christian who isn’t really fully in love with the Lord, who longs to be with Him, it’s not normal for anyone on this earth to want to leave this earth unless you are in terrible poverty or persecution. But when things are going well, no, we don’t want to leave this earth. Tom, look at today, mega churches, and I’m not opposed to a mega church, praise God, if you’ve got thousands and thousands of people who are really Christians, but I can tell you, when I travel around and a pastor shows me the plans for the new building project, they talk about their five-year plan, ten-year plan. That’s okay, let’s plan for the future, but never, Tom, I can’t remember when I ever heard a pastor say, If God wills, if the Lord has not come. I wouldn’t talk about tomorrow without saying, If the Lord hasn’t come. So, it was lost to the church, this hope. And Paul, well said, There is a special reward for those who love His appearing. Tom: Dave, next week---we’re just about out of time---but I want to pick up on, you know, an important event that took place, that sort of set the church on a path of restoration, of not looking to Christ’s coming, our blessed hope, but wanting to set up the kingdom on earth. We’re going to go back to, Manifest Sons of God, talk a little bit about that, and Earl Paulk, and other teachings right up to today---we have Rick Warren’s Global Peace Plan. These things are of great concern to us. Dave: Yes, I know personally that Rick believes in the Rapture, but he doesn’t talk about it, that’s the problem. Because that would kind of undermine these other programs. How can you get people excited? I believe we ought to take care of the sick, and try to get rid of AIDS, and poverty and so forth, but how can you get people excited about that when their main hope is going to heaven. We should be able to do both! But you can’t just be exclusive or make your main emphasis, turning this world back into a paradise, and also at the same time, keep alive the hope of the Rapture. Tom: We’re going to talk about that next week.

Search the Scriptures Daily Program #4006b Transcript follows: RELIGION IN THE NEWS Now Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The Jewish World Review June 12, 2006, with a headline: Democracy in Iraq? The following are excerpts: What we should aim for is an Iraq that is not a terrorist threat, not an Iraq that is a democratic paradigm. Would such a change in mission mark a defeat for the United States and the so-called war on terror? Only if we fail to rethink our overall strategy, particularly as it pertains to our assessment of Islam. That is, if Jeffersonian democracy remains a strategic goal for Iraq, anything short of that goal will be scored as a failure. But what if we accept the politically incorrect fact that our failure to establish liberty and justice for all in Iraq, namely freedom of conscience and equality before the law, is due to the nature of Islamic culture, not to the efficacy of American efforts. If five years after September 11, we finally face the fact that liberty in Islam defined literally as freedom from unbelief has nothing to do with liberty in the West. We could finally understand why an Iraqi constitution enshrining Sharia is holy incompatible with everything our own democracy stands for, and is thus not something worth dying for. Such a reassessment would remove the political transformation of the Muslim Middle East from our war strategy. This would let us focus on the formidable military task of fighting Jihad in Iraq, and beyond, eliminating deporting and containing the threat as needed. This is a global war with many fronts, from Iran to Syria to Gaza to quite a few neighborhoods in Toronto, London and elsewhere. It is time to arrive at new ways and means to fight on them. Tom: Dave, this is from, as Gary mentioned, Jewish World Review, and I think this is insightful. We’ve been saying all along the problem is not political, the problem is religious, the problem is with the beliefs of Islam, based on the Qur’an, based on the hadith, and how they have demonstrated from the time of Muhammad right up until today that this is the way they want to go. It’s a religious take over of the world. Dave: Tom, I like this statement here from, as you said or Gary told us, the Jewish World Review. I wish our government would pay some attention to it. I will correct them slightly. They say it is due to the nature of Islamic culture. Well, Islamic culture comes from Islamic religion. So this is not even a cultural thing. We’re not talking about Western culture against Islamic culture, we’re talking about the world, whether it’s Buddhist or Hindu or Christian or what, against Islam, Islam against the entire world. This is Islam, not some culture that came out of Islam. Now, the culture that came out of Islam is we all ride camels and live in tents and dress like Muhammad and eat like Muhammad, and so forth. That’s the Islamic culture that the Taliban tried to impose there in Afghanistan. But we’re talking about Islam, the religion. Tom: Sharia, the law that they impose. Dave: Well, they have imposed Sharia, the Islamic government in Khartoum has imposed Sharia on Sudan, and as a result more than two million have been killed, hundreds of thousands sold into slavery. There is an active slave market in the Muslim world today. And, as we have mentioned, probably would be a long time ago now,---Look, we don’t have to argue about this, we don’t have to debate about it. You want to know what Islam is, go to Saudi Arabia, no Jew can enter Saudi Arabia by law. Every Jew was killed by Muhammad except for those who escaped. You must be a Muslim to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia. There is no freedom of the press, no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion. You cannot build a non Muslim place of worship in Saudi Arabia. You cannot even have a secret non Muslim worship ceremony in your home, of course you can if they don’t catch you. You may not---no Muslim can convert to any other religion---off with their head in Chop-Chop Square! You wouldn’t dare to carry a Bible on the street in Saudi Arabia, it is a totally oppressive culture. Tom: But Dave, how does it change? That’s really what I think this person is addressing here, how do we change it. Dave: What they are saying is, we’re going to have to contain them. We can’t allow them to bring this to the West. We give them freedom. They built thousands of mosques in the West, and as you know we document it in Judgment Day, as well as other places, those mosques are centers for spreading Islam, for terrorism. They meet in their own little conclaves, they live together, they don’t interrelate, they certainly don’t intermarry, although they like to marry some non Muslims and then take control of them. But a woman, of course a Muslim woman, cannot marry a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman, because by law you control your wife, you beat her if she misbehaves, and so forth. But anyway, Tom, what this article is saying is, we’ve got to contain these people. We can’t let them export it out here. Confine it! You want to have that in Iraq, okay, you want to have that in Afghanistan, okay, in the meantime we’re going to be there and see that you don’t use this as a launching pad for terrorism. We’ve got to spread Islam from spreading. Now, as soon as they would give us comparable freedom of religion in their country, then okay, you can bring Islam to the West so long as you give us freedom, because, Tom, it’s got to be a level playing field. They are not willing! Tom, I’ve been calling for years for an open international debate on the issues. You tell us why you think Muhammad is the prophet of God, we’ll tell you why Jesus is the true and only Savior. You tell us why you think the Qur’an is the word of God, we’ll give you prophesies by the hundreds, we’ll give you proof, we’ll pile evidence to the sky, and you Muslims have no evidence! Now, it will boil down to this, do you want to follow the facts, or do you want to follow your prejudice? You tell us of the character of Muhammad. He was a murderer, he was a warrior, he attacked villages and caravans, and so forth. He murdered, he started his career with murders of 25 people, and he gets revelations in the Qur’an to back him up. Compare that with Jesus Christ, whom the Qur’an itself says is without sin. Okay. Let’s have an open debate, and then let’s let the world decide on the facts, okay?

Search the Scriptures Daily Program #4006c Transcript follows: CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH In this regular feature, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call. Here is this week’s question: Dear Dave and TA: As someone new to the Bible, I’m intrigued by the miracles I find in the New Testament. Throughout the gospels I find many instances where Jesus and His disciples cast out demons indwelling people, young and old alike. My question is: Why don’t we see demons, or unclean spirits, I assume they are the same, affecting people like that today, or could it be that they are, but we have rationalized it away through the concepts of psychology? Tom: Dave, we talked about this some time ago, and I think one of the answers that we came up with was that certainly at the time of Jesus, both with regard to miracles, regard to demonic manifestation, these things were going on all the time. But today, would it be through the philosophy of man materialism, or is this person, as I think, rightly points out, psychology. You know, we have everybody from Carl Jung, who is definitely demonized, but we have theories and concepts of psychology that would remove the threat of demons. Yet, I think there is probably more of it around than we suspect, well, I know there is. Dave: Well, Tom, in my book on Yoga, that just came out recently, I talk about the Spiritual Emergency Network, founded by ------------ . Spiritual Emergency Network---they’ve got hundreds of, supposedly competent psychologists, mental health people all over the world, dealing with these problems. You can call in an emergency number. You’re freaked out on Yoga. A lot of it comes through Yoga or drugs or whatever, and you’ve got these demonic entities that are floating around in the room. I mean, we get letters---remember the letter from the parents of this woman, I think she was in her thirties, asking us, What can we do? She got involved in Yoga and she thought it was just for physical exercise. And now she is haunted day and night by her Yoga instructor, who comes to her, not physically, but just seems to be like a presence in the room. There’s a lot more than that, but they say, it’s almost humorous, no, it’s not humorous, Tom, it’s tragic. Tom: It’s tragic, right. Dave: They say, Well, yes, we’ve had this sort of thing going on---people used to call it demonic manifestations---but we think there should be a new category of mental illness called spiritual emergency. And they are just emerging, you have to go through these traumas, and so forth. So, we document a lot of that, Tom. It’s here---well, they put them in insane asylums, or whatever. Tom: Or you find them out on the streets. You can see them walking around, talking to themselves, hearing voices, and so on. Dave: They call it schizophrenia. Tom: Yeah, Dave, but what’s really ironic here: Carl Jung, for example, his whole process, Jungian therapy, is to contact spirit entities. You know, he began going to seances. His whole family was involved in all of that, and that became part of this therapy. So, we find all kinds of ways to really contact demons. I mean, what else would you call these spirit entities, legitimately, biblically? Dave: Tom, as you know, it’s in the business world, we have courses. It’s in the medical world, how to contact these entities inside. These are very serious people. The Association for Humanistic Psychology, in their conferences, their annual gatherings, and so forth, they are involved in this whole thing, involved in making contact with spirit guides, they even call it this. So, Tom, today, I guess, it’s been legitimized, and this is just part of our society, and in fact, it’s been official, this is how the shamans and witch doctors, how they did their thing, and they contacted these spirit beings. We’ve talked about it in the past, in our newsletter, in Occult Invasion, and in Occult Explosion. Tom: As you remember, I interviewed a 76-year old former shaman of the Yanamomo tribe in Venezuela, I mean, this is the genuine article, this wasn’t some 50-year old lady who decided to get into shamanism and set up a shop in Beverly Hills, this was the real entity. Dave: But she’s into the same thing, ------. So, I guess, to answer your question from way back, It’s here, maybe even worse, but it’s legitimized now. It’s New Age, it’s something to be desired. Tom: And these entities are having the same affect on people that they had during the time-----. Dave: We call them channelers, they are in touch with these critters out there. You could go to Hosai Silva who, founder of Silva Methods of Mind Control. People take these courses, they sign up for it. It’s a whole other subject, Tom, and it’s incredible, but the great question that someone asks. Tom: Well, Dave, it’s a real concern. It’s a concern for, I think, for Christians in terms of what they are getting into when so-called science, pseudo science, psychotherapy, psychology, when they promote things where Christians are not discerning. I don’t believe a true Christian can be demonized, have a demon within. They can be oppressed by demons, there is no doubt about that. Dave: But Tom, there are a lot of professing Christians who are not true Christians. Even Moody Magazine calls it, multiple personalities. Tom, it’s just incredible! Tom: Right. So, our cry here is for discernment, for looking to the Scriptures, for understanding what the Word of God says. It’s our only defense against either oppression, or for those professing Christians who are not true believers. That’s what they need to defend themselves against these kinds of takeovers. Dave: Tom, Jesus cast the demons, they said their name was Legion, there are many of them, He cast them out. Today, Christian psychologists even tried to convert---well, you’ve got multiple personalities, we’ve got to convert this, we’ve got to bring all of these personalities to Christ. They are dealing with demons! Tom, we have come so far, so why don’t we recognize the day, weren’t they being cast out? Because they are being cultivated, they’re out friends, so they say. And this goes for even Christian psychologists---not all, but many, and I don’t hear any of these Christian psychologists who don’t believe this complain against it.

Search the Scriptures Daily Program #4006d Transcript follows: If you have a question for Dave and Tom to respond to in a future Contending for the Faith, stay tuned, we’ll provide our contact information at the end of the program. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Now our final segment: UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES We resume our excursion through the Book of Acts. Here again are Dave and Tom: This is our Understanding the Scriptures segment, we’re in the Book of Acts, Chapter 15. Dave, I believe we left off at Acts Chapter 15, Verse 30, so I will read that. “So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:” (and of course, the epistle that they are referring to came from those who gathered at the council under James, and they were given certain information with regard to the council’s judgment with regard to whether they needed to come under the law, under circumcision) Dave: Whether the Gentiles needed to come under the law. This was the Gentile church in Antioch. Tom: And Verse 31: “Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.” Dave: Because the apostles and elders have met in Jerusalem and have concluded, Gentiles are not to be brought under the law. Salvation is through faith in Christ, not by works of righteousness that we have done. Nor is the keeping of the law on the part of the Jewish believers, that has nothing to do with salvation either. That’s a subject that comes up often, Tom, and believe it or not, I’ve had to deal with it in a number of ways. Why then did Paul take a vow, and who should keep the Passover? Jews. There were certain things that were legitimate for Jews because of their heritage. It had nothing to do with Gentiles. Tom: It had nothing to do with their salvation. Dave: Right, absolutely. Tom: So Verse 32: “And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them. And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.” Dave: In other words, these emissaries are heading back to Jerusalem. Tom, I don’t quite understand why the apostles were staying in Jerusalem. Jesus said, Go, and there is no criticism of them here but it’s simply stating a fact. Paul is traveling, I’m not sure how far Peter got. I don’t believe that he got to Rome, but it’s rather interesting that when Paul writes his epistle to the Roman church, he doesn’t mention Peter. He mentions all kinds of people there that he greets by name. So, I’m a bit puzzled why these apostles are all hanging around Jerusalem, seems to be the headquarters. But anyway, that’s the situation, it just says it for us, and it doesn’t make any further comment. Tom: But the Lord does move them when persecution comes. Dave: Well, but He moved the---this is after the persecution. It said, they that were, you know, that were scattered, went everywhere preaching the gospel, and yet the apostles somehow managed to hang in there that the church scattered. That’s kind of strange, I don’t fathom it, but anyway, it’s there and so I guess we are going to move on, Tom. Tom: Verse 34: “Not withstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still.” Dave: That’s in Antioch with Paul. Tom: Verse 35: “Paul and also Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.” Dave: That was a good idea and the thing that they ought to do. Paul wants to get moving again, and they need to go back, they need to continue their discipleship with these people, check up on them. They didn’t have e-mail, they didn’t have radio or anything like that, they are going to have to hoof it to get back to all these places. In fact, they had already done that just before Chapter 15, They went on this journey, and then on the way back to Antioch they are passing by all of these places. People seem to be doing well, and now, Tom--- Tom: Let me interject this. Sometimes I think about, you know, I get a little impatient, I want to do this, I want to do that, I want this to happen, and certainly we are in a day of technology where we are able to do lots of things that they couldn’t do then. And I think about Paul, and he says, Well, let’s go back, and they didn’t get there instantly, it took a long time and it was an arduous journey for the most part, yet I’m sure he used that time productively. You know, he continually says in his epistles, We pray for you without ceasing. He had a lot of prayer time, a lot of time on the road to take care of these issues and address them. And it’s so important, Dave, I guess that’s why I come under such conviction, because everything needs to begin with prayer. Everything wants to get after something without taking a prerequisite time of seeking the Lord and going to Him in prayer, but it’s so important. Dave: Now Tom, we are coming to a part that really troubles me, puzzles me and troubles me because Paul and Barnabas, who have been so mightily used of God, they are going to have a quarrel and they are going to split up. Tom: Well, Verse 37, I’ll pick it up there. “And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark. But Paul thought it not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work. And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus; And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the brethren unto the grace of God. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.” Dave: Well, you know, Tom, I don’t know that we can take sides here. Maybe the Lord allowed this in order to get two missionary teams, four guys instead of two going out. It is significant, I guess, that later on Paul writes, And bring Mark also, he is profitable for me for the ministry. So apparently, Mark proved himself when he went out with Barnabas, but Paul was not going to take him at that time. He needed to prove himself because he had backed out at one point and returned. And Jesus said, You put your head to the plow, you don’t look back, you’ve got to keep going, and John Mark had violated that. But anyway, Paul was apparently reconciled to him. But that brought Silas into the ministry. Now people can argue, and I’ve heard all the debates about, you know, Paul got out of the will of the Lord at this time, you know, when he went back to Jerusalem, and this and that. Somehow, this Book of Acts follows Paul, it doesn’t follow anybody else. It’s not following Peter, you get a little bit about some of the others, but Paul is the chief apostle, and he says, I labored more abundantly than they all. Now, Paul and Silas---Wow! God is really going to use them powerfully, and so it carries on from there. We don’t follow Barnabas and Mark, but it’s Paul and Silas. I think Paul was in the right at this point, but anyway, God, I’m sure, used Barnabas and Mark. Tom, I---well, I shouldn’t say, I wish I could have sat in on this quarrel---the contention was so sharp between them that they departed asunder one from the other. It wasn’t a pleasant split in this partnership, and I don’t think the Lord was pleased with that, but I’m sure he worked it out. But it’s a sad day in the history of the church, but God overruled, and He continued to bless Paul’s ministry. So, I’ll hang in there with Paul as the one I think must have been in the right, but anyway, God works it all out to His glory. Tom: Yeah, Dave, I agree. I’m amazed at some of the things that Paul does right. He certainly says, Follow me as I follow Christ, but he says, Look at my life, look at the pattern for you to follow, that which you see me do you do and so on and so forth. So, I agree with you, I’ll stick with him on everything. Dave and Tom will resume their discussion on the topic of salvation next week, we hope you can join us. This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. For nearly two thousand years the church of Christ has provided comfort and counsel to believers experiencing mental, emotional and behavioral problems by using the teachings of the scriptures, and the power of the Holy Spirit until psychology and psychotherapy arrived on the scene. Contemporary Christianity has embraced this science so-called. In the last 50 years multitudes of pastors have added clinical counseling degrees to their theological credentials. Psychological theories have been preached so often from so many pulpits that they are accepted without question by increasing numbers of Christians as biblical doctrines. The Christian church of the United States has become a major referral service for clinical psychologists and psychiatrists. Is there something wrong with this picture? Join host, T. A, McMahon, in this new ground-breaking documentary from The Berean Call, Psychology and the Church, Critical Questions, Crucial Answers. Also contributing to this latest TBC production are Dr. Martin Bobgan and Deidre Bobgan from Psychoheresy Awareness Ministries, Dr. Tana Dineen, author of Manufacturing Victims, and Dave Hunt, author of Judgment Day. Executive Director of The Berean Call and co-author of The Seduction of Christianity Tom McMahon: For years, believers, both pastors and those in the pews have been intimidated by the pseudo science of psychological counseling, and the result has been they have backed away from their God given mandate to minister to one another. My hope and prayer is that this video will expose the myths of psychology and encourage the church to return to God’s way of counseling, through His word, by His Holy Spirit, and with the help of fellow believers in Him. This powerful new DVD is now available from The Berean Call: Psychology and the Church, Critical Questions, Crucial Answers. Information on how to order in just a moment. Would you like to expand your knowledge of God’s Word? We offer a wide variety of items that will greatly assist you, from books and tracts to audio and video recordings, CD-ROM, our website and much more. 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I’m Gary Carmichael and Dave, Tom, and everyone here at The Berean Call, I would like to thank you for joining us and invite you to tune in again next week. In the meantime, if you desire to know God’s truth, search the scriptures daily. You’ve been listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. For more information about The Berean Call, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call us toll free at our order number 877-882-4253, that’s 877-88Bible, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. Join us again next week for Search the Scriptures Daily, featuring Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon.