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“My Lord, O King, according to thy saying, I am thine, and all that I have.” Words of absolute surrender with which every child of God ought to yield himself to his Father. If our hearts are willing for that, there is no end to what God will do for us or to the blessings He will bestow. We all want to be absolutely surrendered to God, yet we hardly dare to utter the words.
As a young man of nineteen, Ian Thomas had become totally exhausted after being involved “serving the Lord” in numerous “Christian” activities.
The purpose of this book is to encourage parents to arrive at the goal of having happy and obedient children. These are the fruits God has promised for our children as we follow His way. This book offers hope and encouragement to parents in shouldering the momentous but joyful and rewarding responsibility of parenthood.
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Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call featuring Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael; it’s great to have you tuned in. Coming up today’s broadcast in our Understanding the Scriptures segment, Dave and Tom will resume their in-depth study of the Book of Acts, and “Why did Paul turn to the Gentiles?” In Religion in the News: “An Earth-Friendly Bible.” We’ll take a look at that story and examine the question: “Do Dave and Tom just misunderstand the Emerging Church?” We hope you can stay tuned. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials, including books, tracts, audio and video disks, and copies of our weekly broadcast on compact disk or DVD. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s Cover Article. Tom and Dave continue their new series of programs addressing the spiritual movement known as “The Emerging Church.” This week we focus on the question, “Is the Bible Just Poetry?” Along with Dave Hunt, here’s T. A. McMahon.
Tom:
Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. In this first segment of our program we’re continuing our series on the Emerging Church movement. Last week we addressed what I believe is the most serious problem with this movement that is capturing the imagination of increasing numbers of young evangelicals between the ages of 18 and 30, and that problem is its regard for the Scriptures, or should I say its lack of regard for the Scriptures as the inerrant, completely sufficient and authoritative Word of God. As we learned last week from some Emerging Church leaders, the Bible is better used as poetry or as a stimulus for our feelings or emotions, but certainly not as an instruction manual. Dave, here’s a quote again, Rob Bell. Rob Bell is an Emerging Church leader. We quoted this last week, but I think it’s important to go over—
Dave:
Now, Tom, this would be what they would all agree with. Is that right?
Tom:
Well, that’s part of the problem, Dave, because sometimes people accuse us of using a broad brush. There are lots of Emerging Churches out there and some are into it for this and into it for that and haven’t quite gotten up to speed, so you can’t really say they’re all doing this. But, basically, the writers of this, they would be in agreement. I have a book I may quote from today, An Emergent Manifesto, written by a number of Emergent Church leaders.
Dave:
I’ve read it, but that’s what I meant, that the leaders are all in agreement on this.
Tom:
I would say, and if there are some that have objections to it, they would be going against the crowd, as it were. But here’s a quote. Again, Rob Bell: “and while I’m at it, let’s make a group decision to drop once and for all the Bible as owner’s manual metaphor.” It’s terrible. It really is. Dave, in addition, there’s an interview, both Rob Bell and his wife Kristen did an interview for Christianity Today and she expands on her husband’s “Bible as instruction manual complaint.” She says, “I grew up thinking that we figured out the Bible, that we knew what it means. Now, I have no idea what most of it means, and yet I feel life is big again. Like life used to be black and white and now it’s in color.” Now, let me give you one more quote. This is from Leonard Sweet. He says, “People today are starved not for doctrines but for images and relationships and stories.” Well…
Dave:
Tom, this is not only foolishness—which it is. Stories? Images? We’ve talked about that many times in the past.
Tom:
Interpretations based on your feelings.
Dave:
What is an image going to do for you? Remember the old saying, “a picture is worth a thousand words.” Well, that’s because you can’t tell what it means, so you’ve got a thousand different people who are all interpreting it. Talk to the art critics. You know more about that than I do, Tom.
Tom:
Well, Dave, you know the saying, “well, I don’t know anything about art, but I know what I like.” So again, it’s so subjective, it’s so experiential.
Dave:
Right. So now we are literally, I’m sorry, they are literally turning their backs on God and upon His Word. God gave us His Word. Didn’t He? He gave it to us for instruction and doctrine, reproof, correction and now we’re saying, “No, that’s not what we want. We want images, we want feelings, we want emotions, and we want stories.”
Tom:
Well, Dave, is this not what Moses, when He led the Israelites out of Egypt, isn’t that when he said, “hey, let’s get into some images, let’s get into something visual?”
Dave:
Yeah, well, that’s what Aaron said. He made a golden calf.
Tom:
Right. But what’s really interesting about that, anybody, and we encourage our listeners, our viewers to, the name of the program is “Search the Scriptures Daily.” Don’t just buy into what we say. We want to encourage people to check us out. Check everything out according to the Scriptures.
“It is written.”
Dave:
And, Tom, why do we do that? Because this is God’s Word.
Tom:
Right. So, Dave, Moses, if somebody will go to Exodus and read what’s taking place there. Moses, through God, is giving them instructions. They are to do this. Go to Deuteronomy, I mean, particularly Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Numbers, these are instructions. This is the Instruction Manual. Because God wanted to separate the Israelites from the pagan nations around them, and they needed to know what God wanted them to do, how they were to live, and so on.
Dave:
And the pagan nations were all into images.
Tom:
Right.
Dave:
They were all into idols, and this is why God said, You will not make an image, and you will now bow down to it, because there is no way that you can depict the eternal God in the visible form.
Tom:
And Dave, it’s not just idols, but God condemned the rituals, and so on. And that’s what we see today. We’re going to get into that, by the grace of God, in the programs coming up. We’ll get into it in more depth, but what I would like to do right now, Dave, is kind of shift gears. I get tired of quoting these guys. You know, you say it makes you angry, some of the things they are saying. But let’s quote some scripture here. Let’s go to Proverbs, chapter 4. We have quoted, you have, the last couple of weeks, Proverbs chapter 4 verse 7, but I want to go to Proverbs chapter 4. I’m going to start with verse 1, and just go through, we’re not going to read them all, but most of them in chapter 4. Then I want you to comment, so just jump in as the Lord leads you here. Proverbs chapter 4, and again, what I’m trying to do, these were written by Solomon under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and we want to compare that with some of the quotes that I just gave and that we gave last week. Proverbs chapter 4 verse 1: “Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding. For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.” Oh, doctrine, Dave, instruction. “For I was my father’s son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother. He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.”
Dave:
Now, Tom, I think a quite a bit of the Book of Proverbs was really David’s words which he taught to his son Solomon. But anyway, that’s beside the point, because this is the instruction from the Holy Spirit.
Tom:
Right. And not only Solomon to his son Rehoboam, and we know how that turned out, he didn’t heed his father’s words, but as you said, for us. So Verse 5: “Get wisdom, get understanding, forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.”
Dave:
These are words.
Tom:
Not drawings, not images, not models of this.
Dave:
Right. I probably mentioned this before, but let’s—a little instruction here would be helpful. Words are not physical, ideas are not physical, doctrine is not physical, holiness, purity, being filled with the Spirit, submission to the Lord— How are you going to depict that in visible form? You cannot do it. And the illustration I often use is, if I say justice, you know what I am talking about. What does it weigh, what does it smell like, what’s its texture, what does it sound like? It has nothing to do with the 5 senses that are involved in this physical world. And if you try to make ideas, to express ideas in that form, you are going astray and especially if you try to express God. Now, God is the One who is—He gave us the capacity for words. And how many times have we quoted Mortimer J. Adler, who says, how long ago did I read that book, 50 years ago at least, and in his book, The Difference of Man and the Difference It Makes. Remember, he was an atheist, but he was willing to face the facts, and he said, “The one thing that you cannot argue with, that separates man from all animals, all lower creatures, is the ability to form conceptual ideas and to express them in speech.” Now, a conceptual idea is not something that you can draw a picture of, but you can express it in words. And God has expressed his doctrines, his truth, I mean truth, what does it weigh, what’s its texture, and so forth? No, this is something that God has given us the capacity to comprehend. “With all your wisdom get understanding” you are probably going to get to that verse here. What is understanding? See, these people are turning away from that. They don’t want to understand—Oh, I thought I knew what the Bible was about—well, now I don’t hardly understand anything in the Bible.” Really? The Bible is written for your understanding. If any man lack wisdom let him ask of God. And that’s what this is all about, it is not about feelings!
Tom:
Well, Dave, if I have understanding, then I’m obligated, right? I’m accountable for what I understand and what I know. But if I can massage all those things around, you know, I can keep pushing it off and pushing it off, and getting around it.
Dave:
You can’t get around truth, and it is expressed in words. It involves some doctrine, it has some form, not a physical form but you cannot escape truth! Truth is objective. It can be expressed in speech. It can’t be expressed any other way, it’s an idea, it’s non physical. And Tom, this has such repercussions, because we live in an age when it is very important to understand this—materialism. These guys are materialists. They may talk about the Spirit, may talk about feelings or whatever—
Tom:
And mystery and so on.
Dave:
Right, but they are materialists! Because they think the only way you can get to this is through an icon or a candle, some visible—
Tom:
Sensuality.
Dave:
Right. So when you take that route you are on the downward path to paganism, like you have already become a pagan.
Tom:
Dave, I’m going to go back to verse 5, so we keep this in context. If you just joined us this is Proverbs Chapter 4, and I’m picking up with verse 5: “Get wisdom, get understanding” reinforce the emphasis the Word of God has about this.
Dave:
Understanding, that’s the thing they say they don’t have.
Tom:
Right. And it says: “Forget it not.” So obviously, from God’s perspective, because this is inspired by the Holy Spirit, they are able to get these things. It’s possible, but the Emerging Church, the mystics, the contemplatives say, “Oh, no, no, no, God is infinite, you know, he is transcendent, we can’t understand Him, we can only experience Him.” That’s bogus!
Dave:
Well, God says in—there are certain key verses, but there are many verses that say the same thing. But I will quote again: Jeremiah 9:23, 24: “Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: But let him that glorieth glory in this”—I came into his bedroom last night and he got all goose bumpy, it was really fabulous, just this feeling, I never felt— No, God says, “Let him glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me.” Now God puts understanding first. Now how are you going to understand the infinite God? Well, he wants to reveal Himself to us, not just in feelings, but in truth. And we worship the Lord; he that worships the Lord must worship him in Spirit and in truth.
Tom:
Right. Dave, continuing with verse 5: “Forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.”
Dave:
Now Tom, let me interrupt again. “Forget it not” apparently it doesn’t change, apparently it is something we can know, and we retain it in our mind and in our hearts. And you don’t just make it up, and it doesn’t change. Okay? But these people want to change everything.
Tom:
Right. Well, they say it no longer applies, or it has to be in a certain context. I mentioned last week we are going to get into contextual theology, but that may be next week or the week after, depending on how long it takes for us to get through this. But going on, Verse 6: “Forsake her not, (referring to wisdom) and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.” Sounds to me like wisdom is a good thing, Dave.
Dave:
Right.
Tom:
And of course, Verse 7: Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom; and with all thy getting get understanding.”
Dave:
Sounds like God wants us to understand, not just to have feelings, but to have understanding. In fact, He wants to reveal himself. And oh well, they say, we want to get to know God. How? Just with some feeling? No, He wants us to understand Him.
Tom:
And what are the benefits? Verse 8: “Exalt her, (and talking again about wisdom) and she shall promote thee; she shall bring thee to honor, when thou dost embrace her.” “She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace; a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.” “Hear, O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many.” “I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.” When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened (that is, hindered); and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.” You know, you go through life and you’re going to make choices, why not have the wisdom of God. What He says is the right thing to do. Not that it can always be that easy, but what are the benefits? Well, I am just going over them. “Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.”
Dave:
Tom, this is one of the things that characterizes most children, young people, we don’t like instruction, we don’t like rules, we don’t like to be corrected. Do you know anybody who says, “Oh please correct me.” Well, I’ll say that, please correct me. But most people don’t want to be corrected. It’s not easy for a husband to correct his wife—whoops, let’s just be careful now, or the wife to correct her husband. Well, take it easy now; we don’t want to offend one another. And we should be careful. But most people do not want instruction. Try it with a little child. One of the first things you see in a little child; you see that maybe it’s working a little puzzle or something, and you see it’s just getting nowhere and you want to help it. No, no, I want to do it! And that is built into us. And Solomon is giving wisdom to his son.
Tom:
And Solomon is going to address those very things, Dave. I want to pick up with Verse 20: Solomon goes on, “My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.” Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.” “For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.” Now Dave, this next verse, I know it’s a verse that you’ve taught on quite a bit. Verse 23: “Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.”
Dave:
Well, Tom, we have a book called, What Love is This? Calvinism, we have several books about Calvinism, another one, Debating Calvinism, another one, Honest Doubts Resolved. This is a very important subject, because they deny, Calvin himself denied, and the Calvinists deny that we really have the power of choice, we’re totally depraved, we couldn’t possibly choose, and so forth. Now if you go through the Old Testament, which the Calvinists ignore, avoid, seventeen times it talks about a free will offering. It talks about you bring an offering to the Lord it must be of your own voluntary will. He goes into this over and over, and the word heart is used over and over. For example, Romans 10:9: “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead- and you remember Philip when the Ethiopian wanted to be baptized, he says, Why can’t I be baptized, or What must I do to be baptized? And Philip says: “If you believe with all your heart.” What does that have to do with what we are talking about? Well, we understand in the heart. God wants us to understand him. How can I believe something that I don’t understand? It’s impossible! It’s like Andrew Murray, many years ago, he said: “You cannot receive from God what you do not perceive he is offering you.” We have to have some understanding, and it is very important to faith. How can I believe, how can I live by faith if I’m just kind of out there in space, going by my feelings? This is what the Bible is about. This is the relationship God desires with mankind. This is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God. And Tom, the Emerging Church leaders are just throwing all of that out and saying, “Well, I thought I understood, or I thought I knew the Bible, but no, no, we’ve got to throw all of that out.”
Tom:
Dave, all we’re asking, and for churches that are getting into this, check these things out. What are they saying, and how does it relate to what the Word of God says? For example, the Verse that you just went over; “Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.” That means choices are going to be made from the heart. Well, let’s go on with Verse 24. Then God tells us what happens with regard to the choices that we make. Verse 24: “Put away from thee a froward mouth (that is like a back talking mouth) and perverse or contrary lips put far from thee.” “Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee.” “Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established.” Well, how would that be if I don’t have a reference point, if I don’t have what God has told me to do, as the instructions he has given me.
Dave:
And so we have Psalm 119: “Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” Or Psalm 119:9: “Wherewithal shall a young man (and these people are reaching a lot of young people, they want to get into all of this stuff) “Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way.” “By taking heed thereto according to thy Word.” And that’s what I am supposed to hide in my heart, and this is where God reaches me is in my heart. “Keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.” So Tom, it’s pretty clear if we are willing to follow the scriptures.
Tom:
Well, Dave, it doesn’t look like they are willing. For example, in addition to the quotes that I gave by Rob Bell, he goes on to say, and I have numerous quotes along this line by many other Emerging Church leaders. He says, “We have to embrace the Bible as the wild, uncensored, passionate account it is of people experiencing the living God.” Now, the Lord willing, we are going to get into that. What does he mean, “The wild, uncensored, passionate account”? We’ll check that out next week end.
Dave:
I don’t know where that would be in the Bible. I’ll be interested to hear.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly Newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number 877-882-4253, that’s 877-88Bible, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #0708, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The Christian Retailing Newsletter, December 3, 2007, with a headline: “Harper One Readies Green Bible.” The following are excerpts: “Harper One is scheduled to release what it says is the industry’s first environmentally themed ‘bible’ the Green Bible NRSV, in fall of 2008. The release will focus on the caring of the earth through green-inked scripture passages, as well as input from Christian conservationists, theologians and practitioners, and a green trail guide of Christian leaders through history. The ‘bible’ carries an important message about caring for the earth, said Mark Tober, Vice President and Deputy Publisher of Harper One. Going green has become a top concern among many Christians as they begin to see protecting all of creation as a Biblical obligation. Our green ‘Bible’ offers them a new lens to identify how caring for creation comes right out of the Scriptures. The ‘bible’ will be produced on special, eco-friendly paper and cover material.”
Tom:
Dave, there are all kinds of “bibles” out. It’s like, what will the marketing department come up with next? For whatever problem it might be, for whatever orientation, we have gender friendly “bibles” we’ve got twelve-step “bibles” on and on and on, never ending. On the one hand you would say, well, at least, people are reading the Bible, but basically they are not. I can tell you this, it’s mainly if you’re interested in a particular agenda, then you may pick up a Bible, but you’re going to go for the commentaries. You know, I’ve got a Bible in my office that’s orientation is towards psychology. So now you have commentaries that, supposedly, interpret the Bible according to Freud, Maslow and Rogers and all these guys. It’s bad news! I have—well, the Bible is called, The Life Recovery Bible, written, not written the entire Bible, but edited with commentaries and so on by a psychologist. There are bibles for teens, they are called “biblezeens.”
Dave:
Some of them are funny books.
Tom:
With columns, and how to get dates, and so on and so forth. It’s really trivializing the Word of God, supposedly to reach our culture, and again, another problem.
Dave:
Well, Tom, we’ve mentioned a number of bibles in the past—The Message, by Eugene Peterson.
Tom:
One of the worst, if not the worst.
Dave:
It really trashes the Bible, or how about the Renovaré Spiritual Formation bible?
Tom:
Again, leading us into mysticism, contemplative approach, and of course, Eugene Peterson is all about that as well.
Dave:
Absolutely, what you’ve been talking about here. So Tom, and then a more serious note. John McArthur writes a lot of good stuff, but you go to his study Bible, the McArthur Study Bible, it will lead you into Calvinism, but you never realize that until you got into it. So, there are many so-called “bibles” out there—well, the commentaries, that’s the major problem.
Tom:
But what about this emphasis, Dave, do we get a bible oriented toward Christian conservationism, toward making us aware that the earth is important and we need to be good stewards of—and again, but what does this vice president of Harper One who says, “The Bible carries an important message about caring for the earth—does it, Dave?
Dave:
God is going to destroy the world, number one. I don’t think that it—well, common sense would tell you, God put Adam in charge of the earth. He tilled the soil and so forth. So man has an obligation to the earth, but see, these people have an axe to grind. Now to put out like—Robert Schuller puts out the “possibility thinkers bible.” Is the Bible all about possibility thinking? You can’t even find that word, that expression in there, and is it all about “green peace”? No, so now we get a bible that is set up so that you imagine that the main emphasis of scripture is this “green” movement, and how did we overlook that for so long?
Tom:
That’s an agenda, isn’t it?
Dave:
They have an agenda, that’s right. And Tom, what it does is it leads people astray, number one. It gives you the wrong emphasis, number two. Now, every time I read the Bible I’m looking for some “green” emphasis in it, and that’s not what the Bible is about! I’ve forgotten what the theme of the Bible is, man is separated from God by sins, and Christ came into this world to save sinners. It’s redemption! It’s being restored to the right relationship with God. It is not—Jesus didn’t say, Go into all the world and preach about caring for this earth! He said, Go into all the world and preach the gospel. And Paul, everywhere he went, Acts 20, he preached repentance toward God, and safe in our Lord Jesus Christ. Now how are you going to get that if you’re just looking for “green stuff” in there, and they’ve got “green” highlighting, and so forth?
Tom:
And Dave, the problem with that, and we’ve seen it with the Emerging Church, once you emphasize something, then who are you going to go to for the information? So, it’s as though now I am being prepped to interpret the Bible based on the environmentalist, based on the psychologist and life recovery. So, it’s a distortion no matter how you cut it.
Dave:
It’s a distortion, and it also is a deception. It is leading people astray.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, Dave and Tom continue their weekly in-depth study of the Doctrine of Salvation, please stay with us. Now
CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH
In this regular feature Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call. Here is this week’s question: “To Hunt and McMahon: One of the main reasons you two don’t get the whole Emerging Church thing is you’ve lived too long in a church tradition that’s gotten comfortable not getting along with one another. This generation of Evangelicals is tired of the divisions it has inherited from your generation, and we see no reason why we can’t embrace Catholics and others who follow Jesus. Not only does that church have a rich history and tradition that we can learn from, but I believe our show of unity will help draw the lost to Christ.”
Tom:
Well, Dave, having spent 30 years of my life in a Roman Catholic Church, this attitude that this person has, it’s grieved me because I’ve seen it gain momentum in the evangelical church. The very people who told me that I was lost, you know, and of course I fought that, but they explained to me why I did not have the relationship with God. But I had all the trappings, this richness this individual refers to, so I didn’t have the gospel that saves.
Dave:
Tom, read that part again: “you’ve lived too long in a church tradition” about delusions, or what does it say?
Tom:
Yeah, “in a church tradition that’s gotten comfortable not getting along with one another.” They’re probably thinking, you know, from the Reformation on, we’ve had Protestants and Catholics, why can’t we get along?
Dave:
Right. Well, Tom, first of all, in anything we say, and our critique of the Emerging Church, we have not referred to our “church tradition.” We’ve not said, oh we need to get back to the way some of the old church leaders did it. We have not said that at all! Now, where does this person get this idea? We have continually tried to go back to the Bible. If you want to know what a church ought to be like, it’s nothing about form, it’s nothing about the order of the service, or whether you going—well, it wouldn’t—let’s talk about candles and so forth, but it’s nothing like that. It is doctrine, it is truth. You would go back to the Book of Acts and you find out how the church got started. They did have some doctrinal disagreements there in Chapter 15. So, I will not accept this person’s critique in that part of it anyway. We have not referred to that, we refer to the Bible. What are we concerned about? I’ve said it a number of times, these people are leading us away from the Bible. When Kristen Bell says, “Well, I thought I understood the Bible, but now I hardly understand anything in it” what is that saying? I guess that’s God’s fault, He didn’t write this thing for our generation, He should have used some different words. This is the Word of God settled forever in heaven!
Tom:
Well, Dave, as we’ve said, once that takes place that we do have an understanding, then we have an obligation, then we are held accountable for what it says. That’s why she said, I believe she said, “You see, now everything is colorful, I’ve been set free.” In other words, I am not confined to rules and regulations, but life is more colorful now—I can enjoy and revel in the mystery. That’s what they love, mystery, and the mysticism, and so on.
Dave:
Life is more colorful now. Well, it was in black and white, now it’s in color, but you don’t know what the color is all about. You don’t understand it, you don’t understand the Bible. Does that make you feel good? Well, why would that be? I think there’s one reason, you don’t want to be restrained by what the Bible says. You don’t want doctrine; you don’t want reproof, correction. Where is the correction? Reproof, correction, instruction in righteousness, you get that from these Emerging Church leaders? Well, the only thing would be, Well, let’s get out of that old mode and let’s get into some feeling. Tom, I will say it again, it’s a tragedy, they are trashing the Bible. They are saying the Bible is not important, we don’t need it, we can’t understand it, so now we are kind of out here flying out in space, and we’re going to get some good feelings about what we want to believe.
Tom:
Dave, the last statement this person makes, “Not only does that church (that is, the Roman Catholic Church) have a rich history in tradition that we can learn from, but I believe our show of unity will help draw the lost to Christ.” A couple of things, what about it’s history, number one and number two, what about unity? Are you against unity?
Dave:
Well, the Bible says, Ephesians Chapter 4, it doesn’t say, let’s try to establish unity, it says, we keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Unity is already established, it’s the unity of the Holy Spirit. Jesus prayed, that they may be one, as thou art in me and I in thee, that they all may be one in us. And that’s a doctrinal prayer, Jesus talks about doctrine and about belief. How are we united? We’re united in what we believe. We are united in Jesus Christ. We are not united by some kind of an ecumenical movement. Well, let’s just get along with one another, can’t we get along? Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, Paul, most of the epistles are written to correct error, and have been introduced into the church. So let’s tell Paul, Why couldn’t you just get along? I mean you could have left out most of these epistles that you wrote because they are correcting people and we don’t need that, we just want unity. Even thought the Catholic Church, its doctrine is false, it has the wrong gospel, but I mean they do talk about Jesus and so do the Mormons—let’s just get along with one another. That is not what the Bible teaches!
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Gary:
If you have a question for Dave and Tom to address in a future Contending for the Faith, stay tuned, we’ll have out contact information at the end of the program. You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Now our final segment:
UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES
We resume our excursion through the Book of Acts. Here again are Dave and Tom.
Tom:
This is our Understanding the Scriptures segment. We are in the Book of Acts Chapter 28, and we’re going to pick up where we left off, but a little bit of background. As we’ve been following Paul, he has, as a prisoner, basically of Rome, being brought to Rome, he now is in Rome. He is under house arrest, but he has some freedoms, and in his freedoms he is speaking to the Jews who are in Rome, and he brings the leadership together and he says there are certain things that he wants to tell them, and picking up with verse 23: “And when they had appointed him a day (that is, the Jews appointed him a day to come back and hear him out) there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.”
Dave:
Yeah, well, that’s generally the way it is. Back in Acts 17, he’s on Mars Hill, and some believe. It says some clave unto him of whom was Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris, she got her name in there and certain others with them, and here some believed. That’s interesting, that’s encouraging. And some believed not, but Paul is going to tell them what he has been telling the Jews everywhere he went. And Tom, if I’m—no, I’m not diverging, I would just mention that this is a key chapter to some really, I would call them hyper-dispensationalists. I was raised to believe—well look the end of Acts that marks a transition. They did signs and wonders up until then, and so forth, but no more, the signs were for the Jews, and the Greeks seek wisdom. Actually, Paul did more miracles among the non-Jews than he did among the Jews. But what he’s going to say here, let me just go on and read those verses, if I may, Tom. Acts 28:25, “And when they agreed not among themselves, (See, some believed, some didn’t) they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: for the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” This is the verse I was thinking of, we’ll go back and deal with those other verses. “Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.” Now this is nothing new, but there are some who say, you see, there’s a transition. Now Paul turns from the Jews to the Gentiles and that marks the end of an era, and so forth. Not true, because if you went back to Acts Chapter 13. This is when Paul and Barnabas begin their missionary journey. So his very first city that he goes to, chapter 13, he says: You know, he preaches the gospel to the Jews from the Old Testament, from what their prophets have said, and some of them believe. But then some of them get really angry and they start to oppose Paul. So Paul says, Okay, you don’t want the gospel; it was necessary to bring it to you first, but you say you don’t want it, then we will turn to the Gentiles. So, the point I am making is, that here Paul is doing the same thing he did in every other city. He tells us in Romans chapter 1, verse 16: “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek,”—to the Gentile. So, every city Paul went to—we could think about that a little bit today, some of us as Christians, there’s a Jewish community in our city, are we taking the gospel to the Jews? Well, not easy to do, but maybe we ought to try a little bit harder. So here again in Rome, Paul, first of all presents the gospel to the Jews. And only then does he say, Well, you don’t want it, let me tell you something, the Gentiles will hear this. So it’s not the end of as era, this is what Paul has done consistently in every city. And Tom, maybe we ought to do it a little bit more consistently ourselves. I remember when we had more meetings in our home—I was in the business world and we lived in a large home—we had more meetings in our home than most churches have. We had all kinds of meetings, which I won’t go into. But one of them was to the Jews. We had, I remember, 125 Jews sitting in our living room; a lot of them were on the floor, but mostly young people. And I think the church has kind of forgotten this, and maybe we ought to get back to: gospel is to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles. Anyway, Paul has called to him the Jews. He has the right to do this. It’s amazing the freedom that God gave him, and some believe and some believe not. It doesn’t give us the details about how many or what percentage.
Tom:
But Dave, it does also say, as you mentioned, these were Jews, the New Testament was not written at this point, so what did he give them? He gave them, from their own writings, from the Law of Moses and out of the prophets because Jesus had fulfilled what the prophets had said in his life. He was the fulfillment—the Messiah to come. Now, let’s just apply that to what we’ve been talking about with regard to the Emerging Church. Paul gave them specifics, details from the scriptures. Not just some feelings or, oh listen, He was a wonderful guy and He did all these things, I mean, wouldn’t you want to get to know somebody like that?
Dave:
Tom, it’s an important point you’re making because it still is true today. The gospel hasn’t changed, it’s founded upon the prophets, the Old Testament. So if we turned the page over, which we have already gone through the Book f Romans, I believe, but if we turned one page over, let me read what it says at the beginning of Romans. Romans Chapter 1, Verse 1: “Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, which he had promised afore by his prophets in the Holy Scriptures.” And then he goes on and deals with it. Now, where do we get the gospel? We say Paul preaches in his day from the Old Testament because he didn’t have the New Testament. Well, that’s not what you said, Tom, but you were pointing that out. Of course, there wasn’t a New Testament. But if we go to 1Corinthians chapter 15, this is where you get the really, the only, I guess, clear enunciation of what is the gospel. And Paul says, “Moreover brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand.” We go to Verse 3: “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures. And that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” And Tom, I would say that that’s a weakness in general, even for those who are not into the Emerging Church, but wow! How this highlights the problem with the Emerging Church. We preach the gospel itself from the Bible according to the scriptures, and these people are throwing the scriptures out! Well, because we can’t understand them, and so forth, and we need to get a new perspective.
Tom:
Well we want to keep enough to show that we are not against the Bible. But the approach that they take has just pulled the power out of the Word of God. It’s like platitudes now, it’s like stories, and it’s things that you can feel good about. Let’s just talk about love, let’s just talk about things, toleration, things that we can feel good about.
Dave:
Well, they pulled the real meaning and the real truth out because they don’t want truth. Truth is not something you feel good about. Truth is something you either accept or reject, and I’m sorry, from what I’m understanding of this movement, they have rejected the truth of God and they have turned to other means and methods.
Tom:
Dave, it’s just a guess, we may finish the Book of Acts.
Dave:
That would be great, wouldn’t it? Then we are going to get on to—--
Tom:
We’ll see, possibly we’ll start with the gospel of Matthew.
Gary:
Dave and Tom will take up their discussion on the topic of salvation next week; we hope you can tune in. This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. And now to tell you more about our ministry here’s TBC Executive Director Tom McMahon.
Tom:
The name, The Berean Call, is taken from the Book of Acts Chapter 17 Verses 10 and 11, where we find the apostle Paul entering the synagogue in the Greek city of Berea after he had just come from Thessalonica. To these Bereans he preached that Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah sent from God. They were commended for being noble, or fair-minded, not only for their willingness to hear what Paul had to say about the matter, but more specifically, because they searched the scriptures daily to find out whether or not what the apostle was saying was found in God’s Word. That’s what we hope to encourage through this ministry. Our mission is to alert believers in Christ to unbiblical teachings and practices impacting the Church. We want to exhort believers to give greater heed to Biblical discernment and truth regarding what they are accepting as spiritual. We hope to supply those who profess to be Biblical Christians with information and materials that will encourage the love of God’s truth. Hopefully, we can help mobilize believers in Christ to action in obedience to the scriptural command to, “earnestly contend for the faith” found in Jude 3. And finally, our prayer is that we can be used of God to stimulate Christians to look to the Bible alone as their rule of faith, authority and practice in living lives pleasing to our Lord and Savior.
Gary:
We offer a wide variety of teaching materials that will help you expand your knowledge of God’s Word, from books and tracts to audio and video recordings, CD-ROM, our website and much more. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call us at our toll free order number 877-882-4253, that’s 877-88Bible, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #0708, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD. Ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. Get a pen or pencil ready; we’ll repeat our contact information in just a moment.
Next week, we continue our series of programs addressing the latest spiritual phenomenon called, “The Emerging Church” and, “Is the Bible Too Domesticated?” In Religion in the News: “A More Upbeat Islam.” We’ll take a look at that story, and address the question: “Is Today’s Church Ready for Christ’s Return?” We hope you can join us. If you have questions or comments about this program, we urge you to contact our offices. Search the Scriptures Daily Radio Ministry, is made possible by God’s grace, your prayers and your financial support. I’m Gary Carmichael, and for Dave, Tom and everyone here at The Berean Call, I would like to thank you for tuning in, and invite you to join us again next week. Until then, if you desire to know God’s truth, search the scriptures daily. For more information about The Berean Call write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call us toll free at our order number 877-882-4253, that’s 877-88Bible, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. Join us again next week for Search the Scriptures Daily, featuring Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon.
