Did Jesus Exist Before the World? | thebereancall.org

Did Jesus Exist Before the World?

January 11, 2004
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Tom: We’re continuing with the gospel. We’re in the Gospel of John:17:5: “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”

Seems to refer to the deity of Christ. He was with the Father before the world was.

Dave: Well, certainly, He has expressed His deity many times, and we believe in that. “Glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” So He’s been around forever. In fact, John:1:1 begins: “In the beginning was the Word [that’s Christ], the Word was with God, the Word was God, the same is in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him.  Without him was not anything made that was made.” So He is the Creator.

But He laid that glory aside. He humbled himself, Philippians 2 says, and became obedient unto death. He became a man and He is going to the Cross, where He will die for our sins, and He will be raised from the dead; He will rise from the dead, and He will return to the Father, where He will be glorified—as glorious as He ever was before His incarnation. But now He’s a Man. He didn’t cease to be God; He’ll never cease to be man, so He’s the one and only God man. And now Christ is saying, “Restore me to this glory that I had with you before the world was.” Well, that would speak of a completion of the work that He came to do. He couldn’t go back to the Father and sit on His throne with His Father—it’s the Father’s throne. It’s the throne, now, of God and of the Lamb, Revelation 22 tells us.

He couldn’t do that unless He finished the work that He was given to do on this earth.

Tom: Dave, verse 6: “I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world. Thine they were, and thou gavest them me, and they have kept thy word.” Who’s He talking about here?

Dave: Well, of course, He’s talking about His disciples. “…manifested thy name…” That’s an interesting expression: “thy name.” Moses, Exodus 3, says to the one who is speaking to him from a burning bush and saying, “I’m going to send you back to Egypt to deliver my people.” And Moses says, “Well, they’re going to ask me, ‘Who is this God? What’s his name?’” Gods had names: Allah is the God of the Muslims, now. And God said, “Yahweh. I am that I am. The self-existent one.” And this is the name of God.

And Jesus says, “I have manifested thy name.” Now, how could He do that? Well, we’ve read it a couple times at least in John’s gospel. Jesus said, “Except you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.” He used the same expression. He claimed to be the “I am.”

In John:8:58 (corrected) He said, “Before Abraham was, I am.” And they take up stones to stone Him. They know what He is saying. He’s claiming to be God. So now, here He comes—Jesus said, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.” And He says, “I have manifested thy name. I have revealed the ‘I am.’” I mean, that is so incredible! How could we ever know God? “He dwells in a light that no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen nor can see.” And yet, here comes the Son of God, and indeed, the Father himself, because Isaiah:9:6 says, “Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, the government will be upon his shoulder. His name shall be called Wonderful, counselor, The mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of peace.” And Jesus says, “I have revealed you to the world. I have manifested your name, that you are the uncreated one upon whose existence the creation of all others depends.”

He has healed the sick. He has shown He has power over sickness and over death, and over the elements. He can walk on water, He stills the waves, the storm, with a word. “I have manifested thy name.” Not to everybody! Because many would not believe. They would not accept, even when He did miracles; even when He raised Lazarus from the dead, they still don’t believe, and they’re going to kill Lazarus.

“But to the men which you gave me out of the world…” The Father has given Him these men. Now what does it mean? “The Father gave him…”? Well, the Father has to accept the sacrifice of the Son. It’s God’s justice that has to be satisfied, and no one can be given to Christ except by the Father, and only when His justice has been satisfied.

So, Christ is saying, “You’ve given me these men now. I manifested your name to them. Thine they were, thou gavest them me. And they have kept thy word.” Well, He’s being very gracious, because they’re going to betray Him, but He’s praying this prayer and communicating with the Father about those whom the Father has given Him.

You know, I think, Tom, it includes you and me and all Christians of all ages as well.

Tom: Dave, is this somewhat deterministic? Or…when it says, “He gave…” Now is this based on foreknowledge or does it involve choice on their part? Or what?

Dave: Well, it certainly involves choice on their part. Jesus has said that over and over. Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden. Then in John 6 He does say, “No man can come to me except the Father draw him.” Now the Calvinist emphasizes “draw”—makes it like you can’t resist it, but they neglect the word “come.” We do have to come: “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden.” “If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink….” So everyone is given the opportunity to come. But they don’t all come.

But “the ones you have given me”—well, the Father could not give them to the Son unless the Son paid the penalty. And the Father could not give them to the Son unless these people were willing to be given to the Son. If they don’t believe on Him…

So Jesus in John:5:24 says, “He that hears my word and believes on him who sent me has everlasting life, shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death unto life.”

So these are the ones He is speaking to. Now whether they are given to the Son before they said yes to Him, I think they were, because Ephesians:1:4, for example, says: “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.” So it certainly was before then.

Chosen to what? It doesn’t say to salvation — “that we should holy without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself.” So, the ones that He knew—foreknew—would believe, He has predestined them to certain blessings. But Jesus said, John:5:24: “He that hears my word and believes on him that sent me hath everlasting life, shall not come into condemnation but has passed from death to life.” So the only way you pass from death to life is by believing in Christ. On the other hand, the Father knew who would believe and who wouldn’t believe.  Therefore, from eternity past He predestined those whom He knew to be the children of God to be adopted into His family.

So Peter says, “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God.”

So back to John 17: “ I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were; thou gavest them me. They’ve kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.”

Well, they know it, but they don’t know it. They have been given the information, and they have been given the means of knowing this. He has even told them He would be crucified, but they don’t believe it. They don’t even believe it when He rises from the dead. They still can’t fathom that.

But the Lord is very gracious, and He’s praying to the Father for them, and He’s going to leave them, and He wants the Father to send a Comforter to take care of them, which certainly will be done. And the same is true of us today.

Program Number: 
0304d

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