Search the Scriptures Daily Program #2606a Transcript follows:
Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael, thanks for joining us. Coming up in today’s program in our Understanding the Scripture segment, Dave and Tom will continue their in-depth study of the Book of Acts, and, “How did the Jews respond to Paul’s gospel?” In Religion in the News, “The Dalai Lama gives his blessing to Islam.” We’ll take a look at that story and examine the question “Was the Good Samaritan a Calvinist?’” We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials including books, tracts, audio and video tapes and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disk. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s cover article. We continue our series of programs based on Dave Hunt’s book, When Will Jesus Come? This week we look at the question, “How can there be victory in defeat?” Along with Dave Hunt, here is T.A. McMahon:
Tom:
Thanks, Gary . You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. If you are new to our program, in this our feature segment we are going through Dave Hunt’s book When Will Jesus Come? subtitled Compelling Evidence for the Soon Return of Christ . Dave in chapters 5 and 6 of your book you discuss what you call an “unlikely prophetic scenario” and “victory in defeat”. You open with what’s been referred to as The Last Supper which came only a few days after Jesus being joyously acclaimed as the son of David, the Messiah. But in the next few hours the emotions of the Lord’s disciples were going to go from elation to utter disbelief and grief. Take us through the scenario as the scriptures present it.
Dave:
Well Tom the chapter is titled “An Unlikely Prophetic Scenario” and that’s so amazing. You know if this were fiction and the Messiah has come, and he’s just been hailed by the crowd by I don’t know how many hundreds or maybe thousands of disciples there were, followers, because he had been healing people and feeding multitudes and raising the dead. I mean he had just raised Lazarus from the dead and you would think, wow, they are about to name him king!
Tom:
Sure, a terrific beginning and heading for even a better ending, right?
Dave:
Right! But that’s not what the prophets said. The prophets said he would be rejected and despised by his own people. That they would hail him—it foretold that, Zechariah foretold that. Of course it was—
Tom:
Let me read that verse, “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion ; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem : behold, thy king cometh unto thee…”
Dave:
Stop it there Tom.
Tom:
Okay.
Dave:
“Behold thy king cometh unto thee.” Well you would think they would really be rejoicing and they are claiming him as the Messiah
Tom:
“O Son of David,” they cry out.
Dave:
But Tom go ahead and read how he comes Tom. That set them back a bit. They still didn’t seem to be wondering. They are still acclaiming him.
Tom:
Yes.
Dave:
Because the prophets said they would.
Tom:
But Dave, it also points out when we read the scriptures, having the benefit of looking back in history and all that the scripture has presented, we just kind of float by this. Oh yes, he’s just kind of meek and humble and so on, but it says “…he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass,” Zechariah:9:9Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass..
Dave:
Not exactly the way you would envision a triumphant entry of a new king.
Tom:
Yes, not something that a Caesar or a Pharaoh might put together.
Dave:
You can imagine Caesar coming into Jerusalem, having just conquered it and presenting himself on a wobbly-legged colt that could hardly hold up his weight, never been ridden before and he’s meek and lowly bringing salvation it says. Not the salvation they were looking for. The salvation they were looking for was well they want to have their Messiah come riding in on a white horse with a flashing sword and leading an army. He’s going to conquer the Romans and set them free. But he came to set them free from sin and from themselves and they were not up to that. But at the moment they fulfilled the prophecy as the Bible said. Then the scriptures also foretold that he would be betrayed by one of his own.
Tom:
Well before you get to that Dave, what about the Last Supper? I mean Dave, I’m really impressed with the way you lay this out because it brings some understanding to this or even some thoughts about it that most people wouldn’t have. Here you have the Last Supper. The disciples have got to be over the top with excitement. You know, they are kind of getting together; they are in the inner group, Jesus now having been acclaimed as the son of David, I mean how much better can it get? But what did he have to say to them at the Last Supper?
Dave:
Tom, they had such low self-esteem that they are arguing among themselves as to who will be the greatest. They were already arguing about who would be on his right hand and who would be on his left. Jesus said guys that’s not for me to give, that’s for my Father. He shocks them. They are disputing among themselves who will be the greatest and who will have the top jobs in the kingdom, which now they’ve just hailed him as the King, the Messiah. He drops a shocker on them. He says, “I’m going to go away.” “Wait a minute Lord, where are you going?” John 14 of course—“Well, I’m going to my Father’s house, I’m going to prepare a place for you. We’ve got a lot of mansions up there, and then I’m going to come back and take you up there.” Well they’ve never heard of anything like that. Wait a minute, isn’t there a kingdom down here on this earth? Aren’t you supposed to rule on David’s throne? It’s one of the problems we have today Tom. We have kingdom now people, dominion people, and they think that Christ has commissioned us to take over this world.
Tom:
Right, Global Peace Plan Dave.
Dave:
Right. And we have taken over the media and the government. We voted in our good Christian guys everywhere.
Tom:
Yes, solved all the problems of the world.
Dave:
Right. We’ve taken over the schools, we’ve been voted into the school boards and we’ve turned this country into a Christian nation and the rest of the world will follow suit. Then Jesus will come to rule over the kingdom we’ve established for him. Now it’s pretty clear that when he comes, he does not come to this earth. Not at that time. He comes to take his own out of here and we meet him in the air. It is very clear.
Tom:
But Dave, the confusion—it’s amazing, almost ironic. We can look back and see how the disciples blew it because of their ambition and so on, what they wanted to do, but with regard to a second coming, particularly the Rapture, we have another confusion. Oh no, no, no. We are going to set up the kingdom. I mean it’s a kingdom mentality then and now which is sad.
Dave:
Right. I remember Paul Crouch, I heard it live. I don’t really tune in there, but it just seems every time I just happen to be going by to find some news, he’s at it with something. I’ll never forget the time he said he would shoot the heresy hunters and I knew he was talking about me. But anyway—
Tom:
Yes, this is TBN, Trinity Broadcasting Network.
Dave:
Right, Paul Crouch in charge. Anyway, I’ll never forget him saying we are going to take over the networks, we are going to take over TV and radio, and we will do it by force if we have to. They had just had or were just about to have a conference with that title in Phoenix , Arizona . The title of the conference was “Take it by Force!” They used a scripture from Joshua, “Go in and possess the land.” Christians are supposedly, at least this was the teaching, to take over and do it by force if necessary. No wonder there are the ACLU or skeptics, or whoever—look, these Christians really intend to take over the world!
Tom:
Yes. But Dave, I’m not trying to defend that, because it’s totally wrong, but it’s not exactly the same as Islam, is it?
Dave:
No, it’s not the same as Islam and we don’t do it by the sword. They haven’t tried to do that yet, and yet they use that word force. “Take it by Force,” was the title of the conference. These guys have been hyping this for a long time, but they haven’t been able to do it. I remember when, and I’m sure Tom you would remember, we used to live not too far from there when Jack Hayford had Church on the Way. They had a number of conferences one after the other “How to Take Your City for God.” YWAM (Youth with a Mission ) was talking about this—we’re going to take over. I remember they had maybe 12-1300 pastors met. How often? About once a month I think at the Hollywood Presbyterian Church, about binding territorial spirits which were holding sway over Los Angeles ; we’re going to set these free and millions will be saved and so on. It’s not biblical Tom.
Tom:
No, but it’s interesting also this was called “strategic spiritual warfare,” so the warfare as opposed to what we see in Islam is another kind of warfare. But on the other hand, these people are in a sense, no less militant about it.
Dave:
Well they were very optimistic and it kind of fizzled.
Tom:
Well it didn’t work.
Dave:
They—who was it? Larry Lee went with his people up to San Francisco . They were going to bind the spirit of homosexuality and so forth. It only got worse. They had a huge gathering in Miami in a stadium where they bound the spirit of violence, drug addiction, and so forth. It has only gotten worse. It’s not biblical, but anyway Jesus said he was going to go away, but he would come again receive them to his Father’s house of many mansions. That wasn’t good news to them. It’s good news to us. It wasn’t good news to them because as you say, they had this kingdom mentality. And then he dropped another shocker on them. He said one of you will betray me. And Tom, they couldn’t fathom this. Kingdom dominion mentality then and now is you take it over. You’re going to take over this world. You’re going to rule over everything. How do you do that? I think I may have quoted it before on this program, but I love that hymn—some of the old hymns Tom, we’ve got to get back to them. And I don’t want to hammer on this too much, but I don’t know why they have thrown out the old hymns for some of the modern stuff. Some of it may be good, but most of it is rather shallow and repetitive. But anyway, it went like this: “In weakness like defeat he won the victor’s crown. Tread all our foes beneath his feet by being trodden down. He Satan’s power laid low, made sin, he sin o’er threw, bowed to the grave, destroyed it so and death by dying slew.” Now that’s the way it happens, but that’s not what they imagined it would be like. Anyway, it was a shock that one of them would betray him, and yet Tom, as you read it, they didn’t get it! They’re so concerned about who was going to sit on his right hand and on his left, they should have locked the door. They should not have let anyone out of there, out of that room until they found out who is it that’s going to betray our Lord? Who could that possibly be? They should have grilled one another and demanded the truth. Instead they said, “Is it I Lord?” and another one said, “Is it I Lord?” and then they went back their quarreling about who would be the greatest. Tom, is it possible that we could be so blind today too? I mean I am sure that I miss so much that’s in the Word of God. I don’t understand it, but I’m trying.
Tom:
But it is amazing Dave, when you look at the heart of man. I’ve been going through I Kings and we have Solomon. Dave, not only is he (outside of our Lord) is he the wisest man that ever walked the face of the earth, but the Lord appears to him twice. You would think that—wait a minute, the Lord himself has appeared to me, bringing insight and correction about certain things, yet it doesn’t seem to connect. In other words, even with that kind of experience—and how many people say today, well look if I just got an insight from the Lord. If I just—you know, if the Lord would do something, I would know, speak to my heart.
Dave:
Well-if he would speak to me in an audible voice—
Tom:
Right, whatever, and here the Lord appears to Solomon twice and gives him wisdom and gives him all that anyone could ask for. Here’s the wealthiest man on the face of the earth, all of these things and he disobeys the Lord. He turns from the Lord. Unbelievable! But that’s our heart, isn’t it?
Dave:
I’m afraid so Tom and we have it demonstrated over and over. We’ve talked about it before, at the base of Mt. Sinai , after God has thundered with an audible voice, given them audibly the Ten Commandments and they promised that they would keep them. Moses hasn’t even come down from the mountain top till they’ve broken the first commandment not to have other gods. You know, worship the Lord alone and then they made a golden calf. Nobody saw miracles like the Jews. They walked through the Red Sea on dry land, got water out of a rock and the rock—everywhere they go is this rock and water comes out of the rock in the wilderness. Their clothes down wear out, their sandals don’t wear out, they are led by a pillar of cloud in by day and fire by night, shows them where to camp, they are fed. Tom nobody could ask for more miracles than that and the Bible says, this is not me, this is not anti-Semitism—the Hebrew prophets themselves say these are the most rebellious people—gainsaying, disobedient people that the world has ever seen! And is it not the same today? Of Jesus it says, though he had done so many miracles, yet they believed not on him. What more could you do than raise the dead? The guy’s been dead four days and that was one of the major reasons why this crowd lined the street as he went in from the Mount of Olives into Jerusalem . Talk about hard heartedness! The rabbis who have already determined to kill Jesus, now they say we’ll kill Lazarus also, the man he raised from the dead. They know he raised him from the dead—in the grave four days. Tom, wow, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked…” and this is why in Psalm:139:23Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: David cries out, “Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.” Tom, I cry out to the Lord like that all the time.
Tom:
Right—there were in David’s life—there was wickedness, evidence of wickedness and so on. But the scripture says but he was a man after God’s own heart, because he repented when he was confronted by this. This is the best we’ve got Dave. We will sin, we do sin, but do we have a heart to repent of that, or are we going to continue to go our own way?
Dave:
Right—try to excuse it, whatever. So where are we Tom?
Tom:
Well again, the disciples, they’re listening to Jesus. He’s talking about going away, what he’s going to have to suffer, but this wasn’t new for them. I mean earlier he quotes, “Smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.” He’s quoting from Zechariah, but he gives it to them directly, but they don’t understand these things.
Dave:
Tom, I’ve gone through the Bible and counted how many times, I don’t remember at the moment, but a number of times he has told them “They are going to kill me. They are going to crucify me. I am going to be rejected.” They don’t get it. How many times has he told them he would rise from the dead? And they don’t get it. It must have been such a shock to them when in the Garden here come these Roman soldiers, and the rabbis, and Jews and Jesus is led away meekly like a lamb to the slaughter exactly as the prophets foretold. But they don’t make any kind of connection with that. This is the one who stood up in the boat and stills the storm with a word? This is the one who raised the dead? This is the one who could cast demons out of the demon possessed man that nobody could control and then he sits there at Jesus’ feet? And suddenly they bind him and he seems helpless and they lead him off to be crucified and all the disciples, it says, “…forsook him and fled.” And they could not believe how they must have been mistaken, how they must have been deceived. What kind of tricks did he pull? He couldn’t have been the Messiah because now he got nailed to a cross. And then when they go to the tomb—it’s empty! Oh somebody stole his body! He has told them so many times he would rise from the dead on the third day. Even the rabbis remembered that and they sent Roman guards to keep him inside so the disciples won’t steal his body. The disciples aren’t up to that. They’ve even forgotten—well Tom, oh my gracious, what God must think of us. It’s pretty hopeless isn’t it?
Tom:
Dave, I just love the scriptures, the people God chose to use, and we mentioned David earlier. Peter is absolutely fascinating to me. Jesus said to the disciples, “Who do men say that I am?” And Peter gives him a terrific answer. And then just a little bit later—
Dave:
Well but Jesus says flesh and blood didn’t reveal me, my Father did.
Tom:
Right. So we have Peter even at the Last Supper where Peter says oh, no, no I am going to hang in there with you. I am going to do what you desire.
Dave:
Right. “If they all forsake you, yet will not I. I’ll go to death for you.”
Tom:
Yes, that is what he says. “I will lay down my life for thy sake.” But they don’t. But on the other hand Dave, we have 1 and 2 Peter and we have the things in Acts that Peter said. When he’s led of the Spirit, wow!
Dave:
I tell you Tom it speaks to my heart right now. “Let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall.” Paul said, “When I am weak then am I strong.” He had this thorn in the flesh, whatever it was, we don’t know. Some people say he had eye problems so that he could hardly see. I don’t know what it was, but he says God sent it so that I would not be exalted above measure, but that I would recognize that I am so weak and he called himself the least of all the saints. Paul said, brethren pray for me. So we need prayer, you who are listening out there, please pray for us. Pray for The Berean Call, pray for this program, pray for the ministry the Lord has given us that he will keep us faithful to him and to this ministry and please back us with your prayers. We appreciate it very much and we need this very much.
