How Fatal Was Man's Fall?

In this regular feature Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call.  Here is this week’s question.  “Dear Mr. Hunt and Mr. McMahon, I’ve been receiving your newsletter for a number of years and although I don’t agree with everything you write, I’d say I’m on the same page with you most of the time.  But recently I have been troubled by a concern that you hold, what I would call, a weak view of sin.  You seem to line up with Thomas Aquinas, who wrote that the fall did not completely separate humanity from God and man still had the ability to seek after God.  If that is what you believe, I challenge you to prove it from the scriptures especially in light of Romans:8:7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
See All... and 8.”

Tom:

Dave, let me read Romans:8:7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
See All..., 8.  “Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:  for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”  That’s it.

Dave:

That’s the letter?  Well, I hope, probably it wasn’t, he wasn’t, he or she, but I hope whoever wrote it was listening to our program.  I think we made sin very serious.  Man is separated from God, but you can’t do away with all of the verses in the Bible where—Lets take Isaiah 55:  “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters,” it says.  “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts:  and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”  All through the Bible, God is calling out to man, “Choose you this day who you will serve.”  (Psalm 81 actually not quoted here.Scripture is actually) Romans:10:21But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
See All..., “But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.”  Or, Isaiah 1, “I have raised children, they have rebelled against me.”  And then verse 18, “Come now, and let us reason together.”  And He goes on and He says, “If you be willing and obey you will eat the good of the land.  If you rebel, you refuse, judgment will come upon you.”  Or Christ says—we quoted it earlier—“If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.”  When Jesus says, “Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, I will give you rest.”  He is calling to sinners to come to Him [and] to believe in Him.  Now, am I going to say that no, a sinner cannot turn to Christ, they are separated from God but never does the Bible say that they cannot hear God’s voice, they cannot turn to Him, they cannot respond to the gospel.  Paul went everywhere preaching the gospel to everyone.

Tom:

Dave, I’m thinking about—let’s take the whole book of Judges, for example.  I mean, isn’t there a cycle there of rebellion, captivity and then what—repentance.  Did not they cry out to God and then their salvation, but then for a time, and then they rebelled again.

Dave:

That’s the whole Bible, Tom.

Tom:

Well, let me give you another example.  This one, the book of Jonah:  I’ll quote you some verses from there.  Jonah:1:2Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
See All..., “Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.”  Why did God say that to Jonah if repentance wasn’t a possibility for them?  I’m going to keep going.  Jonah:3:5So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
See All...,6 “So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.  For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.”  Now how did he do that?  Was it irresistible grace or something that God—regeneration?

Dave:

The Bible is very clear.  It offers this to everyone, the repentance and the turning to God.  But God himself says, “You will search for me and find me when you seek for me with all your heart.”  He calls upon them, “…seek ye the Lord while he may be found.  Call ye upon him while he is near.”  I quoted the rest of that (Isaiah:55:7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
See All...), Let the wicked forsake his way, and so forth.  So, they are not talking to regenerate a people, they are talking to wicked people, ungodly people and God is calling upon them to repent and to turn to Him.  Now, Jesus says in (John:7:17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
See All...)—Well, we have talked about it before.  The rabbis said, Well how do we know that what you are saying is true?  You don’t have any of our degrees; you didn’t graduate from any of our schools.  Jesus said, “If any man wills to do God’s will, he will know.”  So, we are told that any man can will to do God’s will.  It’s like the Catholic who takes “eat my flesh and drink my blood,” literally.  They take it literally when it says you are dead in trespasses and in sins.  We are dead spiritually; we are not dead physically, but they liken spiritual death to physical death. Someone’s in the cemetery.  Yeah, but a person that is in the cemetery can’t rebel.  He can’t believe in God, but he can’t reject God, he can’t do anything.  So, never does the Bible liken spiritual death to physical death.  Jesus said, “The hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live.”  This is through the gospel and we come alive when we hear the voice of the Son of God but these people apparently think that God makes you alive first.  You don’t believe anything, you don’t understand anything, but God supernaturally regenerates you and then He gives you the faith to believe?  I do not find that in the Word of God.  I am born again by the Spirit of God through the Word of God.  It’s when I believe in Christ—are we in John 3 still, Tom, back there?  This is what Jesus is talking about.  He says to Nicodemus, You must be born again.  How are you going to be born again?  You must believe in Me.  But, if I read between the lines here, this gentleman thinks you can’t believe, you can’t hear, you can’t turn to God, you can’t repent, you must first of all be regenerated, be made alive, only then—I don’t find that in the Bible.

Tom:

Right.  Plus, it just flies in the face of so much pleading that we find from God through from the Old Testament to the New Testament, God is pleading.

Dave:

Why does He plead with people who can’t hear and couldn’t do anything anyway?  No, our condemnation is, this is the condemnation, light has come into the world, men love darkness rather than light and men have the opportunity, but they turn and they reject it.