Search the Scriptures Daily Program #3502d:
Gary:
Please stay tuned and at the end of the program we will let you know where to send your questions for Dave and Tom to respond to in a future “Contending for the Faith.” You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Now our final segment:
UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES
We continue our exploration of the doctrine of salvation. Here again are Dave and Tom.
Tom:
We are continuing with the Gospel of John and presently we are in chapter 10 and we’re going to pick up with verse 14 and Dave, I’m going to read more than just one this time, because this is really—it’s all great, but this is particularly interesting. “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.”
Dave:
Well, that’s pretty straightforward what Jesus is saying. He is the good shepherd. He says I know my sheep and that tells us that in Matthew:7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity., 24, when he says, “Many will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name? In your name we cast out devils and in your name we did miracles. He says I will say to them ‘I never knew you.’” Well that doesn’t say that they fell away. They were good servants of the Lord, they were saved, and then they lost their salvation. Jesus is saying you were never Christians. “I never knew you.” If he never knew them, they were never his sheep because he says, “I know my sheep.”
Tom:
Dave, do you think they really believed that or were they just deluded by their own pride, their own good works? We find a lot of that with regard to the Pharisees, the religious leadership of the Jews.
Dave:
Tom, I don’t know. I cannot judge a person’s heart, but when Benny Hinn gives three different testimonies of when he got saved, does he have a bad memory? Or when he makes claims like December 31 st 1989 he is in the presence of God in the throne room of God and God is speaking through him saying, “I will destroy the homosexual community in America by fire by 1994, or 1995 at the latest.” When he says there won’t be one place in America safe from earthquakes in the 1990s and it doesn’t happen. Does Benny Hinn know that he’s making false prophecies? I think he knows. How could he not know?
Tom:
Yes, but to stand before the Lord and say hey, look what I’ve done—wow!
Dave:
Well he gathers large crowds, as many as a million people in one audience in the Philippines and in Nigeria. Well Jesus says, they will say to him, Lord in your name, we cast out devils. That’s the spiritual warfare people. They are casting out demons all over the world—
Tom:
Binding spirits.
Dave:
Binding spirits, yes and they are doing it in his name. Now you are asking are they sincere and deceived, or do they know? Look, when Oral Roberts sends out several hundred thousand letters on a computer, I have one of them, I have many of his letters in my file and he says, Dave Hunt, I have been up all night praying for you and God has revealed thirty-three specific blessings he’s going to bring to you. Just send in some money and your seed faith and I’ll see that these blessings come to you and so forth. Wait a minute Tom, my name was put in there by the computer and you know how it works. Several hundred thousand other people had their names each put in there by the computer and the same thirty-three blessings God revealed to Oral Roberts; he would bless each of these several hundred thousand people. Tom, I am sorry, that is a lie! No one could believe that he stayed up all night and that he got 33 blessings for each of several hundred thousand people.
Tom:
By name.
Dave:
Yes, by name, they are all the same blessings? No! Someone is doing something deceitfully and deliberately. Now whether they can somehow rationalize this as being in the service of God, if we can encourage people, maybe we fudge a little bit, or like—
Tom:
But it’s for the ultimate good.
Dave:
Yes.
Tom:
You’re strengthening their faith. That’s the rationale.
Dave:
Or let’s take Peter Popov, you remember? He could point to people, give their name, their address, their ailment, their doctor’s name, and claim he was getting all of this from God. And it was coming into his ear with a sophisticated little listening device and his wife was giving him the information from backstage. And you know Randy, the magician in with some of his people and they found God’s voice at 39.7 megahertz, only it sounded like his wife, which it was. Now he knew what he was doing.
Tom:
Dave, these are corrupt, we are talking crooks here.
Dave:
Okay, but wait a minute now. Wait a minute now.
Tom:
I am worried about the guys who are self-deluded.
Dave:
Well, but just a moment. He could say that he was helping people to get faith. All we’re trying to say is—look Tom, maybe we better get back to John 10, but Jesus said, “They will say in your name.” Jesus says I am the good shepherd, I never knew you guys. And I am known of mine and that brings us up to John:17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent., “This is life eternal that they might know thee the only true God in Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” You mentioned it earlier in our program. Does God know you? Do you know him? Do we really know him? He will turn the wicked into hell and all the nations that know not God. Well Jesus is claiming to be this God and of course he is the good shepherd because he gives his life for the sheep and he makes it possible for us to become his sheep by paying the penalty for our sins. “As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father and I lay down my life for the sheep. This is the one who came forth from God and reveals the Father to us. This verse 16 has caused problems with people. The Jehovah’s Witnesses turn to it of course, “…And other sheep which I have which are not of this fold.” Mormons use this verse also. They say well that’s the Indians over there in North America when Jesus went over and personally appeared to them. “Them also I must bring and they shall hear my voice and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.” I think it’s pretty clear.
Tom:
It’s simply the Gentiles.
Dave:
That’s right. He is speaking to Jews and he has only come to the Jews at this point to offer himself to them, but the other sheep of course would be the whole world. You can go back to the Old Testament—it is very clear everywhere. God promises way back in Genesis 12 to Abraham he says, “And in you and in your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.” He talks about bringing the Gentiles to himself, so this is what Jesus is saying.
Tom:
Dave, let me back you up to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Now these other sheep, these are the ones that are going to be saved, but they’ll never see Jesus. Isn’t that the other sheep?
Dave:
Yes, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have various ways of explaining this and of course they have the 144,000 who alone will be with Jesus in heaven. I’ve never met one of the 144,000 yet. I’ve never met a Jehovah’s Witness who claimed to be one, although there may be some out there.
Tom:
Yes, which is a very sad thing because they come proclaiming that oh yes, we love Jesus and so on, and my first reaction is well it seems to me unless you are one of the 144,000 you will never see him, you will never be with him. That’s really sad.
Dave:
I quote 1 John:5:13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. to Jehovah’s Witnesses: “These things have I written unto you that believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.” I tell them, “You know you can know that you have eternal life because Christ offers it as a free gift.” “I give my sheep eternal life.” And I’ve had them say to me oh that’s for the 144,000. That’s who he is talking to. I’ll say wait a minute, it tells you to whom he is speaking. “These things have I written unto (not the 144,000), these things have I written unto you that believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.” And I say no, it is not written to you because you don’t believe in the name of the Son of God. Isaiah:9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. says, “His name shall be called wonderful, counselor, THE MIGHTY GOD, the everlasting Father.” You don’t believe that Jesus is the one true God, that he is Yahweh, Jehovah of the Old Testament as he claimed. That when he said I and my Father are One, he meant one in essence. We really are one. But you’ve got Jesus, you’ve put him down as a little god, spelled with a little “g”—
Tom:
A created god.
Dave:
And that’s why you don’t him. And if you don’t know him you are not one of his sheep. And if you are not one of his sheep, you won’t have eternal life because you haven’t believed in who Jesus really is. Jesus very clearly, we had it way back in John 8. He said, “Except you believe that I AM (and he is in italics) that I AM that is the name of God, Yahweh, Jehovah, if you don’t believe that I am God you will die in your sins. And where I go, you cannot come.” Well Jesus is saying if you are trusting someone less than God to be your Savior, you won’t be saved. These are the words of Jesus himself, not my words.
Tom:
And these words don’t just apply to Jehovah’s Witnesses, they apply to everyone.
Gary:
Dave and Tom will resume their discussion on the topic of salvation next week; we hope you can tune in. This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call.
The Apostle John, in Revelation 17, describes in detail characteristics of a beast which comes in the last days. Virtually all attention these days is focused on the coming Antichrist but he is only half the story. Many are amazed to discover that that same passage reveals another mysterious character at the heart of prophecy, a woman who rides the beast. Who is this woman? John depicts her as a false church which will be a partner of the Antichrist. Tradition says she is connected with the Church of Rome, but isn’t such a view outdated? After all, today’s Vatican is eager to join hands with Protestants world-wide. We are told the Catholic Church is changed, or has it? In A Woman Rides the Beast , prophecy expert Dave Hunt sifts through biblical truth and global events to present a well defined portrait of this woman and her powerful place in the Antichrist future empire. Eight remarkable clues in Revelation prove the woman’s identity beyond any reasonable doubt. Was John describing the Church of Rome? To answer this question, Dave has spent years in historical research primarily from Catholic sources and provides indisputable documentation.
Video host, author, and lecturer Dave Hunt:
There are over 500 pages, about 800 footnotes, I think, of documentation that will surprise, perhaps even Catholics, as well as non-Catholics as to the official teaching and practices of the Roman Catholic Church. It’s history, what it really has stood for and stands for today. I’m not making it up; I think it is worthwhile, I think it is something you need to read.
Gary:
A Woman Rides the Beast , the book, and the video are available from The Berean Call. Information on how to order in just a moment.
Gary:
If you are a serious student of God’s Word, we offer many materials that you’ll find helpful. From books and tracts to video and audio tapes, CD-ROM, our internet website, and much more. If you would like a copy of this broadcast, ask for Program #0832 and please be sure to mention the call letters of this station. Next week, Dave and Tom will continue their series of programs based on Dave Hunt’s book In Defense of the Faith . And, “Does the Bible teach spiritual mapping?” In Religion in the News, “A church bombing in Italy.” We will take a look at that story and examine the question “Are we on the way to a one world religion?” We hope you can join us. If you have questions or comments about this program, we urge you to contact our offices. Search the Scriptures Daily Radio Ministry is made possible by God’s grace, your prayers, and your financial support. I’m Gary Carmichael and for Dave, Tom, and everyone here at The Berean Call, I would like to thank you for tuning in and invite you to join us again next week. In the meantime, if you desire to know God’s truth, search the scriptures daily. For more information about The Berean Call and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contact us at PO Box 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call us at 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org .
