What's the Difference Between Dying to Self and Self-Denial

In this regular feature of our program, Dave and Tom respond to questions from our listeners and readers of The Berean Call.Here is this week’s question: “Dear Dave and T.A. — I’ve listened to a couple of your programs in which you talked about denying self and even dying to self as one of the keys to successful Christian living.How does that differ from the self denial that is promoted by the gurus of the eastern mystical religions?Or the practices some Christians go through during Lent?”

Tom:

Dave as you know and many of our listeners who’ve been following the program, my background was Roman Catholicism and Lent (I don’t know when this program is going air, but we could be right in the middle of it or something), and all of that was self sacrifice.It was giving up certain things.I could see how people are confused by this.And then you add to that—what’s a guru, a yogi’s doing?Isn’t he denying self and realizing his godhood through self denial and works, sufferings?

Dave:

Well you just said it.Realizing his godhood—how is that denying self?This is called self-realization actually, so from that standpoint, he is going through these things, he has a vegetarian diet, he may even starving himself, practicing yoga, in order to realize that he’s god.So you can hardly call that—

Tom:

But how does that work?He’s dealing with his flesh right?He’s trying to whip himself into not just an altered state but—

Dave:

Actually he’s trying to reach moksha which is escape from time, sense and the elements.He’s putting his body to death actually.Yoga is a technique for dying and yet it is practiced in the West now as a technique for good health and they don’t realize what it is.But forgetting that side of it Tom—

Tom:

Well wait a minute before you move off that—for dying?I always thought it was like a pump fake in basketball.On the one hand the yogi realizes he his atman (the individual self) and he’s going to give up that.He’s going to torture that; mortify that and so on.But for what?That’s the pump.The real shot is so that he can be Brahman, the god of all.So is he deceiving himself?

Dave:

Well Yogananda came to the US and he founded the Self Realization Fellowship.That’s what it’s all about.The goal of all yoga is to realize self; to realize that you are greater than you thought you were.You are really god!Now that’s the absolute opposite of denial of self.In fact the Bible doesn’t teach self denial.See during Lent you were practicing self denial.Self was denying itself in certain things—

Tom:

Right, until Sunday.

Dave:

Right,…in order to gain something for self.It’s like Ramadan [for] the Muslim.He starves himself during the day so that he can feast at night—not really fasting.Even the fasting that the Catholic does or the denying of certain goodies and so forth.That’s just self denying itself certain things so that self can ultimately get something out of it.The Bible doesn’t teach that.The Bible talks about denial OF self, not self denial, but denial OF self.In other words, self is done away with, so Paul said (and we have quoted often), “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, (it’s not I Paul says) but Christ who lives in me.The life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.

Tom:

He doesn’t cease to exist.This is not some spiritualizing.

Dave:

Tom, you and I and everyone out there listening we are our own worst enemies.Self had it’s awful birth in the Garden of Eden when Eve rebelled against God and for her own selfish interests took that tree.We are all of us now suffering on this earth because of the self assertion the self fulfillment of one woman back there, our mother way, way back there.But it’s in the blood of all of us and so…

Tom:

Yes, Adam went the same route, so…

Dave:

Yes, so however you look at it Tom, we need to be delivered from self.That’s my big problem.This self that’s so proud and wants its way and so forth, and could only think of itself, to be delivered from self, wow what a wonder, what a joy!Paul says I have been delivered because I accepted Christ’s death as my death.I’m crucified with Him, I’ve given it up and now He’s come to live in me.Now it’s not me who’s running the show, but it’s Christ.He’s expressing himself through me and what a wonder and joy this is.It’s like 2 Corinthians:5:14For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
See All..., I think we’ve quoted that in a recent program: “…because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.So my orientation, my perspective, my whole ambition and desire, the whole way I look at life has been totally turned around.Instead of living for myself, I’m living for Christ and for His glory.Now anyone that thinks that’s not the best, they just don’t understand.

Tom:

Well let me give you a little example for those who are struggling out there with what you are saying.More times that not, self-consciousness has kept me from doing things that I really ought to be doing that were in my best interest.But I was so self conscious that I couldn’t even bring myself to even attempt it.

Dave:

Especially when you were young.

Tom:

Exactly.

Dave:

What’s self-conscious is what I’m concerned about, how will I come across…

Tom:

What will they say, what they’ll think….

Dave:

Right, that’s our problem and to be delivered from that and to think of others and to want Christ to serve them through me, that delivers me from self.

Tom:

Dave, those who are tracking with us, may not understand what you just said—Christ serving them through us— could you explain that a little better?

Dave:

Well Christ when He took that towel and He took the basin and washed the disciples’ feet, He said I came not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give my life for others.And so we’re supposed to serve others and Christ really does that through us.The greatest service He did of course was to die for our sins.