Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael; we’re glad you could be here. Coming up in this week’s program in our Understanding the Scripture segment, Dave and Tom will continue their in-depth study of the Book of Acts, and “Why did Stephen give a history lesson to the Jewish leaders?” In Religion in the News, “Muslim set-back in Canada.” We’ll take a look at that story, and examine the question, “Do today’s religious leaders lack discernment?” We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials including books, tracts, audio and video tapes, and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disc. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s Cover Article. We continue our series of programs based on Dave Hunt’s book, Beyond Seduction, with part 25 of “Selections from Beyond Seduction,” and along with Dave Hunt, here’s T. A. McMahon.
Tom:
Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. In this first segment of our program, we’re in the process of concluding our discussion of Dave Hunt’s out-of-print book, Beyond Seduction, which he wrote as a follow-up to The Seduction of Christianity. Now, Dave, we noted last week that nearly all of the erroneous beliefs and practices that we addressed in The Seduction of Christianity, more than 20 years ago by the way, are still infecting the church in some form and in many cases they are more influential than ever. And, maybe we have some new listeners, just to give them an overview of what we’re talking about here. For example, the distortion of Biblical faith into a “positive mental attitude” methodology. And, of course, this would refer to the “positive confession” “word faith” teachers, to the “success seminars”, the “positive mental attitude” programs that we see today.
Dave:
Well, he died a few years ago, but Norman Vincent Peale was really the godfather of this. His book, The Power of Positive Thinking, in 45–50 languages, he was the acknowledged mentor of Robert Schuller. Norman Vincent Peale said, positive thinking is just another word for faith. Robert Schuller— well he didn’t want to exactly copy his mentor, so he called his ideas “possibility thinking.” And he said “possibility thinking” is just another word for faith. Now, that’s not true, obviously. You can teach “positive mental attitude” seminars and be an atheist and the most godless person on this earth. So, “possibility”, “positive thinking”, they are not synonymous with faith, this is not another word for faith. This is imagining that the mind, somehow, has some power, there’s some power out there that I’m tapping into by thinking positively, and so my positive thinking, some way or other, is going to send energy waves into whatever this power source is, or it’s going to somehow, to affect the universe and it’s going to cause things to happen. Now, if you have two people on the tennis court, for example, of equal ability, probably the one that has the positive attitude, really believes he is going to win, he’ll probably do better than the other fellow, or the other girl. Solomon did say, “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.” In other words, if you are just feeling like everything’s going wrong, you have a negative mental attitude all the time, you’re down on yourself, you’re down on everybody, you’re not going to be very healthy. It’s not good for your digestion, and so forth. On the other hand, it’s not going to do miracles to have a positive mental attitude. So, instead of a positive mental attitude, we need to have our faith and trust in the Lord, and we are trusting Him, and this is what the Bible teaches. You remember when Jesus, in Mark 11, cursed the fig tree, and it withered up. He didn’t say, well, if you have that attitude in your mind it will happen. You can do anything you want, you can move mountains, Jesus said. He said, Have faith in God. And we need t get that straight, Tom, because, is my positive attitude going to cause this to happen if I can just believe that my prayer will be answered? No, I must believe that God will answer it. Well, how can I believe that God will answer it if it is not his will? It may not be his time or his way. So, when you put your faith and trust in God, it changes everything.
Tom:
And, what we are seeing today, and what we have seen over the past two decades and longer, this is a distortion of biblical faith, that’s our point. Another problem that we see today is the transformation of the biblical cure of souls to psychological counseling. Dave, we have mentioned this, it’s the truth, the church is the largest referral service for secular psychological counseling.
Dave:
Well, we quoted Thomas Szasz, world renowned research psychiatrist, non-practicing Jew, not a Christian by any means, and he said, You Christians need to take this back into the church, we’ve got nothing to offer. He said, You want to know what we have done? We’ve turned the salvation of sinful souls into the cure of sick minds. So, it’s not sin anymore, it’s a mental illness, just a mental attitude, a mental problem. You don’t fault someone if they catch diphtheria or pneumonia, it’s not their fault, and why would you fault someone if they get a mental illness? Well, Thomas Szasz, one of his books is titled: The Myth Of Mental Illness. Now, that upset some people. Well, I know somebody and they’ve got a mental illness. Well, wait a minute! The mind is a non-physical entity. You cannot have a non-physical illness. Now, it’s a moral problem, spiritual problem. Now if you want to talk about the brain, there may be some wires crossed in the brain, they may be a nutritional deficiency, who knows? But we have to distinguish. I love the way the Bobgans say it, “We have to distinguish between tissues and issues.” Tissues know nothing about issues, and there are some issues that we all face. Am I going to surrender to God’s will? Am I going to really love him with my whole heart? Am I going to really want his way in my life? There may be some trials that I have to go through. And I could quote you secular psychologists who say, some of these trials and difficulties may be the best thing that happened to you. That’s how you develop some character, and if you run off to a psychologist or for psychological counseling, psychotherapy, or to a psychiatrist to get some drug that will ease the pain, that could be the very worst thing that you’re doing. You are hiding from the moral and ethical and character development that God wants to bring in you if you will trust him.
Tom:
In the same category there’s another distortion. There’s a turn around from the biblical command to deny self to loving and esteeming self as a solution to solve a Christian’s mental, emotional or behavioral problems.
Dave:
Well, Tom, you and I both moved up here to Oregon—Oh, we don’t like to say that too—from California. No, actually the Oregonians are quite nice to Californians. And you’re…
Tom:
Well, we’re practically natives now, Dave. We’ve lived here…
Dave:
Fifteen years. Well, actually I’ve been here longer than you because my parents moved up here in the 40’s and I was in the service, but I did come and spend a few months here while my parents were living in Portland. So, I’m, and I went my first year to Oregon State University before I transferred to UCLA, so I hope all the Oregonians out there are hearing that. That gives me some status, I hope. Anyway, you remember, in California, Assemblyman John Vasconselos, he put together the self-esteem task force. And, he said—all the problems, and I’m sorry—James Dobson has said the same thing, was saying the same thing before Vasconselos said it, all the problems from drug addiction to poor attitudes and poor scholastic ability and performance and bad performance in school, everything that’s wrong with the human race is because of low self-esteem. James Dobson said, society is suffering from a raging epidemic of low self-esteem. And Vasconselos, the assemblyman, formed the Self-Esteem Task Force. And you remember what happened, Tom. They allocated…
Tom:
Spent some of my California tax money.
Dave:
Right. They allocated hundreds of thousands of dollars and they researched this for years. And what did they conclude? Self-esteem has nothing to do with any of these things. In fact, the children themselves, and I love this, Tom, because we moved to Oregon, what do you know, I remember reading in the Oregonian, or was it the Register, I can’t remember, one of the papers, an Oregon paper, they said, California, you better get back to self-control, self-esteem doesn’t work. And they quoted some of the young people who said—well, what’s the point of trying, whatever you do they praise you for it. And, you know that we give a test to our graduating high school seniors all around the world, and Americans are number one in self-esteem and they’re way down at the bottom with the third world countries when it comes to mathematics, etc. So, it just doesn’t work. It’s nonsense. Self-image? God made us in His image. You think of a mirror. That’s what an image is. The most accurate image you could ever find is in a mirror. And what would you think of a mirror that tries to develop a good self-image? If the image in the mirror is wrong, something wrong with it, it needs to get back in a right relationship with the one who’s image it was designed to reflect. But instead of being turned to God, now we’re being turned to ourselves. Self-love, self-acceptance, self ad nauseum, on and on it goes. Tom, even the secular psychologists and psychiatrists recognize it doesn’t work. And it is still being pushed and promoted in the church. That’s sad.
Tom:
Dave, it’s a bit like climbing aboard the Titanic. While the band’s playing “Nearer My God to Thee,” I mean, it’s going down. Why would we do that? It is a stunner, Dave. I don’t understand it.
Dave:
Tom, I like your analogy. Psychological counseling, it is a sinking ship. And, even the captains and the lieutenants, etc., the secular psychologists and psychiatrists are writing books against it to expose it. It doesn’t work. And, the Christians are climbing aboard more and more. We need to get back to God’s Word.
Tom:
Right. Dave, another distortion or another trend that we’re seeing relating to distorting God’s word is the abandoning of biblical doctrine in favor of compromised unity among Christians. For twenty-some years I was a Roman Catholic, for thirty-some years I’ve been an evangelical. And, in the thirty-some years I’ve seen a major, almost transformation of the evangelical church with regard to things Catholic. It’s really shocking, Dave.
Dave:
Well, Tom, I recently did an article in the Berean Call, and maybe Gary will tell you how you can sign up for that. We don’t charge anything for it. It was titled, “The Death of a Pope.” And, I mentioned how evangelicals praised the Pope, etc., quoted from Christianity Today, and various other places, and Christian leaders, how evangelical the Pope was, why he was a real born-again Christian, and you know, Evangelicals and Catholics Together back in 1994. It said, “we thank God for the discovery of one another as brothers and sisters in Christ.” Now these are all evangelicals and all Catholics, our brothers and sisters in Christ. And, I simply pointed out a few things about the Pope. The Pope looked to Mary for his salvation. I quoted Cardinal O’Connor in the New York Times, who said, “Church teaching is: that I do not know what my eternal destiny will be at any moment nor does the Pope know whether he will get to heaven or Mother Theresa.” And we just quoted the Pope over and over and over when he was shot in Rome in the ambulance on his way to the hospital. He’s repeating over and over in Polish, “Maria, Maria, Maria.” And, I quoted some of his prayers. I quoted what the Pope said, how in his will that he’s prostrating himself before the image of Our Lady and he’s pleading with her for salvation in his Holy Father’s Prayer for the Marian Year, the protection and salvation of the entire world he committed it to Our Lady of Fatima. The Pope had embroidered inside of his robe, “totus tu su Maria” (Mary, I am all yours). The Pope over and over and over looked to Mary for his salvation. Now, is somebody listening out there, I hope? The Pope wore the scapular from childhood to his dying day. One end of it, Tom, as you know, and I think you probably wore it for awhile…
Tom:
I did.
Dave:
…as a young Catholic, said, “whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.” Now, let’s ask ourselves a simple question. Would anybody who believes that Christ paid the full penalty for his sins and believes the world of God, Jesus said, you’ve passed from death to life, you will not come into condemnation, would anyone who believed that weal a scapular that promises salvation from Mary? Impossible! And, it you really believe that Christ paid the full penalty for your sins, and you are saved through faith in Christ alone, not by works, etc., why would you trust Mary for your salvation? But the Pope trusted Mary for his salvation. Therefore, I can only conclude that he didn’t trust Christ for his salvation. If he didn’t trust Christ for his salvation, but he was looking to Christ plus Mary, he’s not saved. It’s that simple. This is what the Bible says, it’s not my word or yours.
Tom:
And, Dave, you know foundationally, the gospel of the Roman Catholic church is faith in Christ plus sacraments, plus purgatory, expiation of sins, on and on…
Dave:
…plus medals and good works.
Tom:
Right. So all that the church of Rome stands for is antithetical to the Biblical gospel of salvation.
Dave:
Absolutely. And yet they can make evangelical statements. Oh yes, we believe Christ died for our sins. We’re trusting Him. But when it comes right down to it, as you said, they’re trusting Him plus. And, Tom, I remember talking with orthodox monks at the headquarters of the Russian Orthodox church outside of Moscow. And, here’s the way they put it, Yes, Christ is the door, but He’s standing at the top of a long stairway, He made it possible for us to climb this stairway and then the door is up at the top of that and this is what Jesus did for us. In other words, the Catholic, Tom, call on your years of Catholicism, Jesus made it possible for the Catholic to earn their salvation. Is that right?
Tom:
That’s correct. And, Dave, the sad thing is, we see movements by evangelicals toward these ideas. Toward the— we’ll get into this maybe a little later, the liturgies, the sacraments, all of these things are attractive now, far more than when I was witnessed to by evangelical Christians some 30 years ago.
Dave:
Tom, let me apologize for sounding so earnest and wrought up. But, we’re talking about the eternal destiny of souls. You can’t just slough it off. Well, yeah, the Catholics, they do believe Christ died for their sins. Yes, they do believe that. They do believe this and that, etc. They believe He rose again, and etc. But, as you said, they believe so much else that nullifies
Tom:
Rejects.
Dave:
It does. It does reject it. Christ said, “It is finished” on the cross. “Tetelesti” is the word. It meant, “paid in full.” But, the Catholic church says, we turn the little wafer and the wine into the body and blood of Christ and we’re offering Christ over and over and over, and if you deny that this is a propitiatory sacrifice, that we’re offering on our altars, for the sins of the living and the dead, anathema to you, we condemn you to hell. So, although they say, yes, we believe Christ died for our sins on the cross. In fact, they don’t believe He paid the full penalty. They believe He must be offered over and over and over. And, a Catholic who hasn’t even gone to mass, who has rejected the church, he hasn’t believed what the Pope has said, you know, he’s in favor of homosexuality or abortion, or whatever, nevertheless, when he dies, nine times out of ten, 99 times out of a 100, they want the last rites. They want masses to be said for them to get them out of purgatory. So, in the final analysis, they really believe in something plus the finished work of Christ on the cross for salvation. That says you have not believed in Christ for your salvation and you’re not saved.
Tom:
This is really what some people have termed the Galatian heresy. Paul condemns the Galatians for adding to the gospel. And Roman Catholicism is referred to as the Galatian heresy because they’ve added far more to the gospel. And, what did Paul have to say to the Galatians? He said you are anathema, you are accursed for adding anything to the gospel that you’ve received. So, that’s the issue here. And, my encouragement to anyone out there who objects to what we’re saying, read the book of Galatians and you’ll see the application to the Roman Catholic church for changing the gospel into another gospel that can’t save anyone.
Dave:
And the read the Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent and you’ll see that the Catholic church has anathematized evangelicals for believing the true gospel, as Paul anathematized the Galatians for denying it and adding to it.
Tom:
Dave, another distortion that we’re seeing today, that you refer to in Beyond Seduction, and it’s manifest today, is the rise of various occult methodologies, techniques and practices to supposedly foster one’s spirituality. We see the rise of the contemplative approach to spirituality. Richard Foster would be one of the leading promoters of this, but we’re seeing it also in the Emerging Church, in so-called harkening back to authentic, or vintage Christianity, which is nothing more than Catholic mysticism.
Dave:
With its icons, and praying through the icons. Richard Foster, of course, promotes visualization. That’s one of the most powerful occult techniques, fastest way to get into the occult. We have people wanting to use a visualized Jesus, and we quoted Calvin Miller, of course, “one door opens into the world of spirit—imagination. Visualize Jesus as you want him to be.” You know, he says, “I love the glint of the sun on his auburn hair.” O, you say his hair is black? Well, have it your way, you know, just so long as this Jesus you are visualizing is real to you. You don’t have to be too bright to realize that is not Jesus Christ! Furthermore, this image that you have started in your mind suddenly takes on it’s own life. You’ve got a demon pretending to be the Jesus you are imagining.
Tom:
Dave, all of these things together, they are really a rejection of the sufficiency of God’s Word. There are men who are doing what’s right in their own eyes, who are really rejecting God’s teaching, God’s Word, God’s instruction to us to how to live a life that’s pleasing to him, true to his Word.
Dave:
And they are undermining the faith of the average Christian in the Word of God, so that they are turning from the Word of God to the techniques of this world. That is not going to help. That is going to hinder them, in fact, it could lead them into some very serious delusions in their Christian life.
Tom:
Proverbs 14:12, “There is a way which seemeth right unto a man; but the end thereof are the ways of death.” And of course, for the believer we are talking about a shipwrecked faith, a life that’s not fruitful and productive in the Lord.
Dave:
Well, Tom, the Bible is our only hope. This is God’s Word. It doesn’t change. We’ve got to go by the Bible, but we’ve lost our confidence in the Bible. Now we’re turning to the wisdom of man, and then we are trying to integrate their wisdom with the Bible, diluting it, and perverting it in the many ways that we’ve just talked about. That is a great tragedy in the church today.
