Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael, thanks for joining us. Coming up in the next hour in our Understanding the Scripture segment, Dave and Tom will continue their in-depth study of the Book of Acts, and, “Will the bodies of believers see corruption?” In Religion in the News, “The Gospel of Judas.” We’ll take a look at that story and examine the question, “Are you reading through the Bible?” We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials including books, tracts, audio and video tapes and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disc. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program.
Now, this week’s Cover Article. We continue our series of programs based on Dave Hunt’s book, When Will Jesus Come? This week we look at the question, “Are there really 10 lost tribes?” Along with Dave Hunt, here is T.A. McMahon:
Tom:
Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. Currently in this, the feature article of our program, we’re discussing Dave Hunt’s book, When Will Jesus Come? Compelling Evidence for the Soon Return of Christ. And Dave, as we discussed last week, God reveals Himself in the Scriptures as the God of prophecy and that Israel is His witness to that fact. And, as we pointed out, unlike those who claim to have prophetic ministries today and have worse than poor prophecy to fulfillment records, yet that doesn’t seem to bother their followers, does it Dave, but God must be 100% accurate in all that He declares about future events, and if He’s not, then we, as we’ve said, we toss the Bible out, we can’t take God seriously, and in effect we have no hope. But, aren’t there stumbling blocks - - haven’t people pointed out things, stumbling blocks to prophecy such as the ten lost tribes of Israel? Doesn’t that situation create a major problem for prophecy being fulfilled, unless of course somehow they’re found in the nick of time? What do you think?
Dave:
Yeah, Tom, I don’t think that the people who talk about the ten lost tribes even consider that part of the situation, because Jesus apparently didn’t know that any tribes were lost. He said to His disciples, You will sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel, not on two thrones judging two tribes of Israel. Paul talked about the 12 tribes scattered abroad, he said that to King Agrippa, and James wrote his epistle to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, so I guess they didn’t know that 10 of them were lost. Now, as you’re pointing out, Tom, we have serious consequences if ten tribes are lost, because as we’ve mentioned, Israel is the major topic of prophecy, and the Bible is very clear. God promises hundreds of times, literally, that although these people are under His judgment, because of their sin, their rebellion, and so forth, He scattered them everywhere, and they are being persecuted and hounded and killed, still are to this day.
Tom:
Dave, a little background, did this idea come from, you know as we know, the kingdom of Israel was really divided after Solomon, Rehoboam his son just wouldn’t do, wouldn’t follow the council of the elders, good council that he was given, and God raised up Jeroboam, and Israel was split into the Northern kingdom and the Southern kingdom. The two tribes of the Southern kingdom would be Judah and Benjamin, and then the 10 of the Northern kingdom, isn’t that really what it’s referring to? Their dispersion, I mean, that’s where we get the term, Samaritans, from. Those of Syria were intermingled with the Jews to some degree, and the Jews were taken out of that land, for the most part. So, isn’t that where the idea basically comes from?
Dave:
It’s where the idea comes from but it’s not God’s idea, and He did not divide them, man divided them. And the point I’m making is that although they are under His judgment now, scattered everywhere, not just the 10 tribes, but everybody is scattered, that He promised that He would preserve them, and in the last days would bring them back into their land. And Jesus promised that his disciples would sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. So, if 10 of them are lost, then the Bible isn’t true, and as you said, God must be 100% true, so this is very serious. So, if 10 tribes are really lost, then God’s a liar, and Jesus is a liar. Now, what about it? What does the Bible say? See, this is a myth, as you said, it comes out of the idea, well, because there were 10 tribes carried away by the Assyrians, that therefore they never came back. Now that’s a joke! Of course they came back.
Tom:
And this is a teaching sometimes referred to as British Israelism. Who was it, World Wide Church of God, I believe taught it, and others?
Dave:
Right, and the white races are the Jews, we’re the 10 lost tribes. Now, again, that is some kind of a joke, Tom. We’re not the 10 lost tribes, obviously. If we are, Wow! we have really exploded, and these 10 tribes have practically taken over the world because the European, the white people, I mean, go up into Scandinavia, and all over, it simply isn’t true. But you see, Tom, the 10 lost tribes doesn’t even acknowledge that, they say they are lost. They are out there somewhere. Now, if God is going to bring them back, just to think logically, they don’t even know who they are, but you’ve got a group, 10 tribes, somehow they must be living somewhere. They haven’t intermarried with all the rest of the world. So, somewhere there must be the descendants of 10 tribes. Now, they don’t know who they are, and I don’t know how anybody else would know who they are, and suddenly one day---Voila! Whoa, there’s the 10 tribes we didn’t know! And, oh, okay, well I guess we had better bring them back into the land, too. It’s ridiculous, Tom! So, it makes nonsense of the Bible, okay. But if we went to, for example, went to 2 Chronicles Chapter 30, it will tell you it’s not too many years after they were carried away into Assyria that they started coming back, and you’ve got a lot of them back there. I mean, how are you going to keep these Jews out of their land? They’re not in irons, they are not having their legs shackled, and so forth. So, they got back. Now, if you went a few more chapters, 2 Chronicles 34, the revival, the Passover, under Josiah, 7 of the tribes are named as participating in this. They are rebuilding the Temple, they are getting donations, you know, offerings from all of these tribes, and out they go to these various tribes they are named. So, they are not lost! I don’t know why that myth has stuck around so persistently! But that’s the way with many myths. But of course, Tom, the people who talked about British Israelism, they want to say this is another part of the church that is Israel now. I mean, these people don’t call themselves Israelites, although some of them do. By the way, you know, so do the Mormons.
Tom:
That’s amazing to me!
Dave:
And Utah is the only state where Jews are called Gentiles, and the Gentiles are called Jews. But anyway, Tom, it simply isn’t true, and these are Israelites. Now, we had better deal with something else, because---but they are all called Jews today. So, doesn’t that mean this is just the tribe of Judah? You pointed out it’s Judah and Benjamin were the two. No, all Israelites, all descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they began to call them Jews. But if you went to Luke Chapter 2, is it, somewhere around there, or 3, you find Anna the prophetess. It says she was of the tribe of Aser.
Tom:
Obviously, she wasn’t lost!
Dave:
No. Maybe she was the only one that made her way back, or her ancestors. So anyway, Tom, it is an important subject because we’re talking about when will Jesus come, and He said He would come again. Now, if He didn’t know what He was talking about, about the 10 tribes and they are really lost and He didn’t know that, then I don’t see how we can trust Him about coming again, and we certainly can’t trust Him about our salvation.
Tom:
Dave, just moving on with prophecy. Dave, one of the subjects that we have dealt with, especially months ago when we were going through your book, Judgment Day. What I am referring to is the persecution, your know, of the Jews, and down through history, I think primarily, because of the history of the Catholic church with regard to Jews, Christians have been blamed for this persecution. But I want to read a scripture from Jeremiah. This is Jeremiah, Jewish prophet, and I’m going to read Chapter 30, Verses 10 and 11. It says: “Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, (referring to Israel) saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet (and this is what I want to talk about) will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.”
Dave:
That’s Jeremiah 30, Verses 10 and 11. And if you went to Chapter 31, Verse 10, it says: You know, again, thus saith the Lord, nations, you listen, hear, O nations, He says. I the Lord have scattered my people, and I will re-gather them and I will keep them as a shepherd keeps his flock. You had better watch out what you try to do with these people. So, God has made many promises, and if you went further on in Chapter 31, Verse 35, and I think we have quoted that before. God says: As long as the stars are in the sky, the sun and the moon are up there, Israel will not cease from being a nation. Now, again Tom, we could go back and we could make quite a study through the Old Testament where we would find out that He’s using the term, Israel, for all 12 tribes when He says, Jacob, O Jacob---all 12 tribes, and we can demonstrate that from the scriptures. For example, if we went back to Ezekiel 37---I mean, Tom, it is so amazing that anyone could think that the church has replaced Israel, or the 10 tribes were lost. And, you know, this is the prophecy of the valley full of dead bones, and they are brought back together, speak to them. And notice what God says to Ezekiel, son of man, Ezekiel is called son of man, more than 50 times he claims that God is speaking through him---then He, that is God says, son of man, these bones are the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin? No, these bones are the whole house of Israel! And you go back and you trace that, okay. When God talks about the whole house of Israel He’s talking about all of them. God down to Verse 19, Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel and his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, okay.---Of course the Mormons try to make something out of that and they are the ones that have been brought back, etc., but that’s not true, they are not Jews.
Tom:
Which can be proven linguistically, genetically, I mean, all the evidence is there.
Dave:
Right, right. ---and I will put them with the Jews. So I am going to make one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand, okay. So here again, we have all the tribes brought back together. Verse 22, God says, I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; they shall no more be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all, okay. So, If God is going to do that, He must know who these 10 tribes are. Well, they’re not lost out there somewhere, He doesn’t say He is going to haul them in from somewhere. No, these are the Jews, and many of them know what tribe they are from. Now, we can prove the tribe of Levi, that’s interesting, and you, Tom, could probably say more about that than I can. But there is a chromosome that comes only through the male ancestry, because you’ve got the priesthood from your father, not from your mother. It is very interesting. They have checked it out, the DNA, as you say Tom, they have checked it out with people today who are called, Colin, or Levi, who claim, oh. Yes, we’re from that tribe. What do you know? The males all have this extra chromosome. So, those people know they are from the tribe of Levi, but there were Levites on both sides. But anyway, we can support it scientifically, we can support if historically, and Jesus will return. So, when we say, When will Jesus come? as we have mentioned in the past, what are we talking about, come for whom? Come to do what? Is He coming for Israel? Well, that’s in the midst of Armageddon, the rescue, or is He coming to take His bride out of here, and we talk about both of these events.
Tom:
Dave, one of the reasons I read Jeremiah 30, talking about the 10 tribes, O, there are things out there that, depending on whose perspective you take, that you know, this undoes prophecy, this removes prophecy from being valid, and so on. Maybe, the major issue that people have trouble dealing with, and, as you point out in your book, on the one hand it’s supernatural, and on the other hand it may be diabolical. I’m talking about the Holocaust. You know, what I read here from Jeremiah 30, God saying: Yet, I will not make a full end of thee, but I will correct thee in measure and will not leave thee altogether unpunished. Well, we see that down through history, how the Jews have been treated and dealt with by the world, and some of it, as you have mentioned over and over again, it grieves us, but historically the Jews have been persecuted like no other people on the face of the earth.
Dave:
Well, no one can deny that, and that is one of the great proofs, again, that the Bible is God’s Word, that these are His people. It’s irrational, we’ve talked about that in the past, it’s satanic. You know, obviously satanic because Satan must destroy these people. If he could destroy them---no Messiah! Well, the Messiah came! Now, if he could destroy them there is no second coming because there are no Jews for Christ to return to rule over them, so God is a liar, and He has had the moral ground pulled out from under Him so that He cannot punish Satan for his lies either. Now, many people don’t know, and we talks about this in, Judgment Day, my latest book, in some depth. The anti Israel actions betraying Israel by America, by Britain. The whole world was guilty of that Holocaust, and furthermore, Hitler had identified---they went to trouble to do this---had identified eleven million Jews for extermination in Eastern and Western Europe. As they invaded Russia they are rounding up Jews, slaughtering them. This was their diabolical purpose, and of course then we have Haj Amin al-Husseini, the great uncle of Arafat, who was—wow, what an evil man he was! And yet the British made him Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the 1920’s and he was a partner with Hitler. Hitler financed him, and Hitler was going to help him exterminate the Jews in North Africa, or so-called Palestine. So anyway, Tom, it’s not going to happen, but it’s interesting, the verses you quoted. God says: Though I make a full end of all the nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee. So it sounds as though He is going to make an end of these, and really punish these nations for what they’ve done.
Tom:
God says: If you bless Israel, I will bless you, if you curse Israel, I will curse you. It’s very simple, and we see it. I mean, I don’t know why I’m amazed, God said it and we see it, I mean, it’s as simple as that!
Dave:
Absolutely. So anyway, we have to deal with Israel if we are going to deal with the church. The church did not replace Israel. Christ is building His church, He said. On this rock the confession of Christ as Lord and Savior, Jews and Gentiles have been made one---one body in the church, the bride of Christ. But Israel has not ceased to exist, and never will cease to exist, and they are the earthly people. God has promised them this land, and it is by an everlasting covenant, the scriptures say. You could get that stated very clearly in Genesis 17, where God says, I make an everlasting covenant with you and with your seed after you, to be a God unto them. Well, they don't accept Him now, but the day is coming when they will, and to give them possession of this land, the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, He says. So, the Jews have a land. Our home is in heaven, the church, the bride of Christ. Jesus said: I’m going to go away to prepare a place for you, and if I go away, my Father’s house of many mansions, He said, I will return and I’ll come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also. So, Jews and Gentiles who are in the body of Christ, who are in the church, they are taken in the rapture to be with Christ. There are many Jews who will remain on this earth, that Christ will return to rule over them, and they are the earthly people. In fact, we will---in our resurrected, glorified bodies, we will rule with Christ over this whole earth, Jews and Gentiles.
