Can Reincarnation Be Christianized?

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Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call featuring Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael, it’s great to have you with us. Coming up in today’s broadcast in our Understanding the Scriptures segment, Dave and Tom will continue their in-depth study of the Book of Acts, and “Paul’s day in court.” In Religion in the News, “Catering to Kabbalah.” We’ll take a look at that story and examine the question: “Are we headed for economic disaster?” We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials, including books, tracts, audio and video disks, and copies of our weekly broadcast on compact disk or DVD. You may also subscribe to our monthly Newsletter, which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s Cover Article. Tom and Dave conclude their series of programs based on Dave Hunt’s book, Yoga and the Body of Christ: What Position Should Christians Hold? This week we focus on the question, “Can reincarnation be Christianized?” Along with Dave Hunt, here’s T. A. McMahon.

Tom:

Thanks, Gary . You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. We’re concluding our series on yoga and Christianity in this first segment of our program and, as we’ve been saying for a number of weeks now, it’s rather shocking to see the growing acceptance of the practice of yoga within Christendom. And, this is greatly disturbing because yoga, if you don’t know, is really the central practice of Hinduism and its beliefs and practices are completely at odds with Christianity. And our syllabus for this series is Dave Hunt’s book, Yoga and the Body of Christ: What Position Should Christians Hold? And later Gary will tell you how you can order the book, or if you’d like a copy of the series, he’ll tell you when it will be available. Dave, I’d like to give our listeners and viewers a summary of what we’ve discussed in the series. But first, if you would, please explain the difference between the major, really a major doctrine of Hinduism, and its opposing doctrine in Christianity. And, of course, what I’m referring to here is reincarnation vs. resurrection.

            Dave:

Yeah, in Hinduism in India you have a caste system, and only the highest caste can move on to oneness with Brahman.

            Tom:

So a caste would be what?

            Dave:

The Brahmans.

            Tom:

As opposed to the lowest caste which are the untouchables.

            Dave:

Well, they are not even a caste, they’re untouchable—

            Tom:

They fall of the map.

            Dave:

  …they are outside, right. Yeah, so that’s a basic reason for reincarnation, you hope you will come back as a higher caste, and yet a higher caste, and so forth.

            Tom:

So this is a level of society, but also a religious level.

            Dave:

Right, right, and the more modern leaders will try to get rid of the caste system but it’s very difficult to do because, as you said, this is part of their religion. Now, reincarnation is amoral first of all, then it’s senseless and then it’s hopeless. Remember those three things, you can share this with someone who believes in reincarnation. Why do I say it’s amoral? Because if I’m a husband who beats his wife in this life, I must return as a wife beaten by her husband in the next life. This is the law of cause and effect, this is karma, which is an integral part of reincarnation. You come back in another life in order to work out the karma you built up in your prior life. But the problem is that then my husband in the next life when I’m a wife and he beats me in order to pay me back for what I did to my wife in the prior life, well then he’s got to come back as a woman in the next life being beaten by her husband and on and on it goes forever. There is no solution to sin. Karma and reincarnation, Hinduism perpetuate sin.

            Tom:

And Dave, you said it’s amoral. It seems to me, just what you’ve described, is immoral because it perpetuates evil, it forces people to do what’s dead wrong.

            Dave:

Well, actually Tom, in Hinduism there is no such thing as sin. The only sin that they might acknowledge would be to call yourself a sinner. So, there really are no morals, it’s like Star Wars Force.

            Tom:

No, because it’s illusion, right? Maya.

            Dave:

Dark and a light side…. No, it’s not that there’s something wrong, it’s just karma, it’s just built into karma, it’s amoral, it has nothing to do with morals,

            Tom:

Okay.

            Dave:

  it’s just going to pay you what—let’s say the perpetrator of anything in this life, he must come back as the victim of the same crime, we would call it a crime, I don’t know what they would call it, mistreatment? So the perpetrator of every crime must become the victim of the same crime, which means there must be another perpetrator of the crime who then must become the victim so that there’s no solution, it’s just totally amoral. It’s not recognizing anything as wrong necessarily, whatever you have done the law of cause and effect is going to pay you back.

            Tom:

So, according to them it could have an upside, it doesn’t have to do with somebody beating somebody. It could be somebody doing something nice for someone.

            Dave:

You can supposedly work your way up, and that’s you get to the next caste.    And then finally, when you are a Brahman, through yoga you reach a state of consciousness where you are released from time since and the elements, you reach moksha. The Buddhist would call it nirvana or something like that.

            Tom:

Their idea of heaven or a place without suffering.

            Dave:

Right. Now, don’t want to get off on Buddhism but it’s very closely related to Hinduism. See, in Buddhism suffering is the problem, and you have to suffer and suffering is caused by desire. Now, Buddha and the problem with him was he couldn’t escape either because, his great desire was to escape desire, and he was caught in a trap. Anyway, secondly, reincarnation is senseless. Tom, I don’t know, can you remember your prior lives?

            Tom:

Dave, I have trouble remembering ten seconds ago let alone….   Go ahead.

            Dave;
Right, I’ve never found anyone—now of course they have these, Oh, déjà vu, I remember being here—that’s not going to help you. Can you remember all the mistakes you made in the last life, all the lessons that you supposedly learned? Then what’s the point of coming back again and again, you can’t remember. How do I know that I’m doing better in this life than I did in the last life, I may be getting worse. So, it’s senseless, and I don’t see that the world is improving. I don’t see that India is improving, that they’re getting holier or you know, everybody is becoming a Brahman, and so forth.

            Tom:

Dave, a side note to that is what of the supposed people who remember past lives?

            Dave:

Well, psychiatrists have done some experiments with this, and they have found some children that seem to remember prior lives.

            Tom:

Is this only under hypnosis or other ways?

            Dave:

Well, they have some glimmer of a memory, and they kind of remember, but under hypnosis then they have a clearer memory. And hypnosis or course creates memories. Well, why is it hopeless? Because the reason you and I— Tom, we may have wondered about this—the reason I’m sitting here and you’re sitting   there and the reason we’re on the radio is because of the karma of a prior life. That was because of the karma whatever our prior life was because of the karma of a prior life, and a prior life, and a prior life. And it goes back to the beginning when nothing existed but “god”, as they might want to call it.

            Tom:

The all.

            Dave:

The three gunas, the qualities of life and so forth were in perfect balance in the void.

            Tom:

This is Hindu theology, if you’ve just joined us, this is not our belief!

            Dave:

Right, thank you. Something happened way back there to cause an imbalance in the godhead, and the prakriti, the manifestation began. And it’s an illusion, it’s not really there, it’s Maya, but it began and we were caught in this trap. Now it began with an imbalance in the godhead, it’s built into the universe, you will never escape it. So, in this life we are working off the karma from a prior life, but in the process of working off the karma from a prior life we’re building up more karma that will require us to live yet another life to work that karma off, on and on it goes, ad nauseam, it’s ad absurdum!

            Tom:

Right, well, it’s also called transmigration, it’s also referred to as samsara, the wheel of sorrows because it is hopeless. And, well, I think you quoted Gandhi one time in this series saying this was something that no person could bear.

            Dave:

Yeah, a burden too great to bear, he called it. It’s the wheel of reincarnation.   So Tom, where does yoga come in on this? Well, I just explained.

            Tom:

Well, how does it compare with resurrection?

            Dave:

Yoga is the means of escaping this, supposedly. Compare it with the resurrection; Jesus did not reincarnate. The Bible says, Hebrews:9:27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:, It is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment. You don’t have another chance, you will be punished by God. Everyone will be judged according to his works, even Christians. But we’re will not be punished for this, we will suffer loss, we will lose the reward we might otherwise have had. Now the Bible does teach cause and effect. Galatians Chapter 6, “…whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.” You sow to the flesh you will reap corruption, apply it to the Spirit you reap life everlasting.

            Tom:

Sow to the wind you reap the whirlwind.

            Dave:

Yeah, but it’s not like Hinduism, because there is forgiveness. You’re going to reap what you sow, but you may be forgiven because Christ paid the penalty for our sins. You do not have that in Hinduism. So, we’ve mentioned before, I think, like mother Theresa, although she did not do the good works that people think she did.

            Tom:

She didn’t have—she didn’t even have the faith that people think she had, which has been revealed as of late by her letters.

            Dave:

She didn’t believe in God, she was just—because nothing made sense. But if you pick up someone out of the gutter of Calcutta like mother Theresa’s people supposedly did, and they did in some instances, not very many, you put them in a clean hospital bed—No, they don’t put them in a clean hospital bed there they put them on a pallet, and I don’t want to get into that.   Anyway, you haven’t helped this person, they’re dying of running sores and disease and starvation, and you’re trying to help them. You have not helped them, you have interfered with their karma! In the next life they will have to come right back to that same spot, and then to move on.

            Tom:

Again, which is the belief of Hinduism, which we are trying to explain and compare with biblical Christianity.

            Dave:

And that’s where yoga comes from, this is Hinduism.

            Tom:

Dave, the central practice of yoga is meditation. Now how does yoga’s meditation compare with, or how does it differ from biblical meditation?

            Dave:

Well, of course right there, Tom, someone who is listening, who is into yoga, they say, Well, I don’t meditate. And that’s true, most of the Western yoga instructors, it’s just all about physical exercises, and so forth.   However, all of these exercises, they were not designed for physical fitness, they were designed to reach another state of consciousness whether it’s the breathing or the positions.

            Tom:

These are called asanas.

            Dave:

Right, the position, Pranayama. So, we have letters, I’ve talked with people, sometimes with the parents. I remember one letter: My daughter, she thought she was just getting into hatha yoga, physical yoga for physical fitness, and limbering up and so forth. She is now haunted by her guru. Well, she didn’t want to have a guru, she thought it was just physical, but the yoga instructor now haunts her, a spirit presence that she cannot get rid of and it terrifies her. What can you do for my daughter? We’ve been to psychiatrists, and so forth. So, there is a spiritual purpose to this, now how does Hindu or Eastern meditation differ from Western meditation and Christian meditation? In the West meditation always meant thinking clearly about something, focusing on it in you mind, analyzing, trying to understand it more deeply, that’s the opposite of Eastern meditation. Eastern meditation, like transcendental meditation, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, you clear out your mind. You’re not thinking, you don’t want to think. The only thing you—well, you don’t even think, you repeat a mantra, and the mantra is the name of a Hindu deity.   Remember, his last name was Scott, he got into this and he was told by Maharishi, initiated by Maharishi, this is just purely physical—

            Tom:

The founder of TM, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

            Dave:

—to develop your potential. Well, he was given a manta, secret mantra, his mantra, no one else knows it, just chosen for him. And he’s reading a book, well somehow, it usually leads people into an interest in Hinduism. Well now, where did this yoga come from, and so forth, and many of them get hooked. He’s reading about Hinduism, there’s his mantra, his secret mantra, just for him! And so he reads a little bit further, it’s the name of a Hindu god. Wait a minute! What’s going on here? He tries to ask Maharishi as he’s been initiated into a higher level—

            Tom:

Now is this the same Maharishi that started a movement called, The Spiritual Regeneration Movement? Very religious,

            Dave:

That’s right.

            Tom:

but somehow didn’t fly, Dave, couldn’t get it into schools, and so on. So, is this the same guy that then called it, The Science of Transcendental Meditation?

            Dave:

Yes.

            Tom:

Okay, just to be sure.

            Dave:

Yes, the same one, it’s dishonest. So he says, he went to Maharishi and says, I find that my mantra is the name of a Hindu deity. You told me it was a secret mantra, just chosen for me. Maharishi said, Well, we don’t   have time to talk about it now, a lot of people want to see me, we’ll discuss it later—which they never did. Eventually, he found that demons were trying to get in him through this mantra. But anyway, yoga is supposed to deliver you from it and many of the yoga instructors in the West do not talk about meditation.   But in the Bible, and Western meditation, I’m thinking deeply, I’m trying to understand. Solomon said, “Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom:” You don’t get that by blanking out your mind. “…and with all your getting get understanding.”

            Tom:

Proverbs:4:7Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding..

            Dave:

And we have mentioned this before, we’re giving kind of a summary, so let’s mention Sir John Eccles once again who says—a Nobel Prize winner for his research on the brain. He said your brain is like a computer, it’s a machine actually, he said, that a ghost can operate—in the normal state of consciousness you are operating your brain—in an altered state reached under yoga. This is one of the problems, you didn’t intend to get into this, but the breathing exercises and the positions—

            Tom:

Mmhmm, the techniques.

            Dave:

—are designed to put you into an altered state and that connection is loosened between your spirit and your mind allowing another spirit to interpose itself, tick off the neurons in the brain, create a universe of illusions. So—

            Tom:

So Dave, let me just interject this. So whether you get a mantra, which is the name of a Hindu Deity or not, the technique still opens you up to whatever is out there.

            Dave:

Absolutely.

            Tom:

Even it it’s claim—the claim by your yoga instructor say, No, no, no, we’re just into stretching and we just want you to calm your mind, this has nothing to do with a religion. The technique opens you up the same way.

            Dave:

And the idea is you’re supposed to empty your mind. What that does is open your mind to demonic entities. And I have talked to too many of them who have told me what happened, exactly what happened.

            Tom:

Dave, there’s another aspect to this. Let’s say, somebody says, Come on, come on down to my yoga class, you know, and it has nothing to do with religion, and so on. Now it seems to me that somebody who takes a yoga class and says, Man, I really like this, this is really good, I want to get better at this. If they want to get better they’re going to start reading the books, right? They are going to try and find the best teachers, the best instructors, and the transition from, Oh, it’s just exercise, it’s just stretching, and so on, and it’s just kind of calming yourself. I don’t see anybody who’s really interested in—who really loves it, to stop right there. They’re going to find out very quickly that this is religion, this is Hinduism.

            Dave:

But they are sucked into it now. Tom, we explain all that in the book. For example, we have “Christian” yoga now in churches, in evangelical churches, taught by supposedly “Christian” yoga instructors. Now, what has happened? They’ve gotten drawn into this, that they begin to apply Christianity to yoga.

            Tom:

Sure, they can draw closer, become more intimate with Jesus Christ through these techniques.

            Dave:

Right, now this is a spiritual exercise. How does physical exercise of yoga lead us into—Oh well, but this is Christianity now, this is going to help you get closer to Jesus. So, there is a, an intimate connection there Tom.

            Tom:

Dave, we’ve got about three minutes left, I really want you to take this three minutes and talk about this. In regard to yoga, and other Eastern meditative techniques, or Catholic mystical techniques, explain Psalm:46:10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.: “Be still, and know that I am God…”

            Dave:

Well, that comes from the children of Israel at the Red Sea : Don’t be worrying, just shut up, stop complaining, and let me show you what I am going to do, be still and know that I am God. It’s not still my mind, blank it out, and somehow reach this state of consciousness. No, that is not what it is talking about at all; it’s just, be still, just calm down, shut up, and stop blubbering!

            Tom:

Well, Dave, the rest of the verse, you never hear the rest of the verse, it says: “I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.” In other words, Watch what I am going to do here.

            Dave:

Right.

            Tom:

We’re not going to let the heathen overtake you if you put your trust in Me.

            Dave:

Yeah, but they abuse scriptures, they misuse them, misinterpret and—

            Tom:

And Dave, this is picked up, you know, we could beyond just yoga, this is the heart of the so-called Christian mystical movement, the Richard Fosters, the Dallas Willards, the Eugene Petersons. These guys, and others—there’s a video out right now that’s drawing people into this very thing, mysticism, and it’s supposedly, based on, “Be still, and know that I am God…”

            Dave:

Well, that is a mis-application of that scripture. Unfortunately, we have all kinds of mis-applications, we have Christian leaders who—and you named a few, who are really trashing the Bible, like Eugene Peterson you mention, he writes his own Bible, changes what God has said, unalterable truth, and he changes it, puts it in his own words, and doesn’t just put it in his own words, the truth, nothing wrong with that, you want to put it in modern language what God said so that people could better understand it, these men change what God has said. They change the meaning, and they introduce their own heresies, and call it the Bible!

            Tom:

You see, and again the heart of it is, it’s mysticism, you can’t really know God through the Word. You can’t really, you quoted Proverbs:4:7Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding., you can’t really come to an understanding, you’ve got to experience God. This is dead wrong, this is anti-biblical, this is weaning Christians off the Word of God.

            Dave:

And this is the so-called “emergent movement” that we’ve talked about.