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Gary :
You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, Dave and Tom continue their weekly in-depth study of the Doctrine of Salvation, please stay with us. Now:
CONENDING FOR THE FAITH
In this regular feature, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call. Here is this week’s question: Dear Dave and Tom: In I Timothy 1:18-20, I am having trouble understanding some of the implications. For example, are Hymenaeus and Alexander believers? Are they being excommunicated or just disciplined? Is Paul’s instruction to Timothy applicable to the church today? Can we deliver anyone over to Satan?
Tom:
Well, Dave I think this is something to wrestle with. My personal view is (if you are interested) is that this is not the same Hymenaeus and Alexander, the coppersmith, for example that we read about later. I think this is probably a discipline thing because he is going to deliver them—well let me read the verse that would be helpful for our listeners.
I Timothy 1:18-20: “This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. Now the reason I think it is discipline Dave, is because of the other example of this in the scriptures (the only one that I know) is in Corinthians 5, where you have a young man who has his father’s wife, basically his mother, incestuous problem and Paul says he has turned him over to Satan for discipline of his flesh, but then he is restored later.
Dave:
It even says the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of Jesus Christ. That’s a tough one but, he didn’t die, because II Corinthians, Paul writes and says he has repented and he is filled with sorrow and remorse.
Tom:
So he was probably a believer.
Dave:
He had to have been a believer.
Tom:
Umhm, but what about these guys?
Dave:
Well, we have another Hymenaeus and Philetus in II Timothy 2:17, well verse 16: “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. (Some people like to argue and they like to have discussions.) “…for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;…” Now if this were a different Hymenaeus and a different Alexander, I think it would be very confusing. There’s no way that you could find that out, so I would assume then that these are the same character. Now we’ve added another one, Philetus. Now it says, “…who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is passed already; and overthrow the faith of some.” So they’ve made a shipwreck of the faith and they are removing the hope from believers. “Sorry guys, you missed it. The resurrection passed. You were born too late, I mean you didn’t die soon enough,” and he calls it blaspheme. That’s pretty strong language. “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Now what does that do for me if I am not going to be resurrected? And Paul argues that in I Corinthians 15:19, “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.” He is in fact, arguing that from Christ’s resurrection that we will be resurrected. So it seems to me then that this teaching that the resurrection was passed already is undermining the very heart of the gospel. Because what is the point of Christ paying the penalty for our sins and then being resurrected for our justification the scripture says if it’s only going to affect certain people and it’s already passed? This seems to be (I would think) a very serious error, overthrowing the faith of many. Now overthrowing the faith of many would mean they no longer have any hope in the gospel because the resurrection is an integral part of the gospel and this is really denying the purpose of the resurrection and the part that we would have in that. So Tom, I don’t know. Were these men ever believers? Are they going to be delivered to Satan so that they will repent? Would that happen in the case of that young man? But in this case I just could not say.
Tom:
Well Dave, I think this question is important given the series that we’ve begun today on the Emerging Church because we are going to be quoting many of these leaders and blaspheme—that’s not too harsh a word to use in relation to what they are saying and what they are teaching. Talk about undermining the faith, overthrowing the faith, shipwrecking the faith of some—that is a chief characteristic of this movement.
Dave:
Well Tom it sounds like you are making an application here and you could very well be. Maybe these guys are not worth arguing with, just turn them over to Satan, let them go their way…
Tom:
Well except it’s such a mixed bag Dave. There are so many people in this, so I would say well wait a minute, this guy hasn’t gone that far and this individual, but some have certainly—really, anti-Christ would be another term I could use…
Dave:
Right, you hate to take that approach with anyone, but Paul did in certain cases.
Tom:
Well Dave again, the Emerging Church , this is sadly we see this racing out and burning and crashing and in the lives of many young people, many that I’ve talked to. It’s…
Dave:
They will be so confused Tom and that’s the situation with these leaders and they confess it.
