Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael; it’s great to have you tuned in. Coming up in today’s broadcast in our Understanding the Scriptures segment, Dave and Tom will continue their in-depth study of the Gospel of Matthew, and “Why Did Mary and Joseph flee to Egypt ?” In Religion in the News: “Christian Climate Changers.” We’ll take a look at that story and examine the question: “Is Christianity too exclusive?” We hope you can stay tuned. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers a wide variety of teaching materials, including books, tracts, audio and video disks, and copies of our weekly broadcast on compact disk or DVD. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, which we offer free of charge. We’ll let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s Cover Article. Tom and Dave begin a new series of programs based on Dave’s book, Seeking and Finding God . This week we focus on the question, “Why do humans need God?” Along with Dave Hunt, here’s T. A. McMahon.
Tom:
Thanks, Gary . You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. In this first segment of our program, we are beginning a new series featuring Dave Hunt’s book, Seeking and Finding God. Now for some of you who have followed our program for years, we’re re-visiting this, and there’s a good reason for it. Seeking and Finding God , Dave’s going to explain in a minute what the book’s about, give you an overview, and why he wrote it, but it’s the gospel, it’s central to all that we’re doing here. We’re not ashamed of the gospel because it’s the power of God unto salvation for all those who believe, and we want to keep reinforcing it. One of the things, Dave, I’m sure you agree with is that an understanding of the gospel seems to be lost within professing Christianity, even among true believers. Can they explain the gospel? Can they not only witness with the gospel but I’m finding in many cases—you know, I visited evangelical universities, I’ve interviewed young people, and their inability to explain the gospel is a great concern that I have, and I think that’s prevalent throughout professing Christianity.
Dave:
Well, Tom, there are some tough questions that arise, and I’ve been concerned about the new wave of aggressive atheism. And one of the things the atheist would say—I remember Christopher Hitchins saying it in a debate— “Well, this isn’t—I mean, you’re saying that the innocent die for the guilty? That’s wicked, that’s not right.” In fact, we just dealt with that in our recent newsletter.
Tom:
Well, Dave, let me add to that. As we went through our series on The Emerging Church, you remember the quote of one of the leaders saying that this was a form of cosmic child abuse.
Dave:
Right, yeah.
Tom:
What is going on here?
Dave:
Yeah, so Tom, let me explain why I wrote this book Seeking and Finding God . I don’t know how many of the listeners would have heard, but I’ve probably said it dozens of times that I can prove the existence of God by who He sits me next to on airplanes, and it happens over and over and over. In fact, Tom, when you and I were coming back—well, we met in Portland , since we’ve been coming from different directions.
Tom:
Well, we came from Toronto .
Dave:
Right, but you went a different route. Anyway, here’s a young man sitting next to me, you’re right across the isle, and you couldn’t have arranged it. He’s not quite an atheist, agnostic, but he’s heading for atheism, once upon a time a supposed Christian, and I think he was a—had he been a Catholic? You know, I can’t remember, Tom, at this point. I didn’t write it down; I should write these things down. What an appropriate time to meet him. He’s thinking—he is a thinker, he really wants to know the truth, and we had a terrific discussion. Now, I meet so many of these people in various places, but many of them on airplanes.
Tom:
Dave, let me give you another example. You remember, we were supposed to be sitting together on a flight from San Francisco, and there’s this big guy sitting in the seat next to you, my seat, and I’m thinking well, do I want to hassle this.
Dave:
We’ve gone out, at San Francisco actually, because there’s a little break, and then when we came back to get our seats 9B and C, somebody was sitting in 9 Charlie.
Tom:
Right, which was my seat. So this young man is a Marine, okay?
Dave:
Well, I said, Tom, we’ll get this guy out of here, he doesn’t belong there.
Tom:
Right, right, but you said it jokingly because you’re always willing to accommodate people.
Dave:
Yeah, okay, if it’s the Lord’s will that he be there we’ll let him be there.
I was wrong, Tom.
Tom:
And the Lord—this was another one of those providential acts of God to have this man sitting next to you, because why? Well, he was a pagan within the armed services that was his religion in the armed services. I think he had a Baptist background but he had jumped out of that into paganism. And Dave, I don’t know anybody that I could think of that understands the religion that he was just starting in as well as you do, and you were able to—well, you could add to it, you were able to explain what he was into better that he had an understanding of.
Dave:
Well, Tom, just to make it a little more miraculous, he had a buddy, two of them, two Marines. Now if they had both been in—believe me, I would have rooted them out, because that seat, 9 Bravo has my name on it, and I get that months in advance.
Tom:
But this is a puddle-jumper for our listeners and viewers. In other words, it’s a prop plane that gets us to Bend , Oregon , between San Francisco or Portland , and whatever.
Dave:
I need to stretch my legs for various reasons. No, but it’s different—there’s another exit, it’s about normal, but this one, you could hardly touch the seat in front of you with your foot. So, that’s my seat, and Tom, you were sitting next to me, and we had reserved them, we had the proof. These guys, who do they think they are, sitting in our seats. So, if both of them had been there we would have chased both of them out, I mean, in a nice way, but the other guy hadn’t come on the plane yet. So now there’s only one, he’s in your seat, so we let it be. Tom wisely felt maybe the Lord has something in this.
Tom:
Well, it happens over and over to you, Dave, so I’m just thinking well, here we go again!
Dave:
But can you imagine, he’s from Okinawa , he’s come all the way to Lamoure Air Station, I believe, where they are going to do under water training. Can you believe it! They come from Okinawa to do under water training in the swimming pool at Lamore Air Station.
Tom:
But again, the point is, is that who else could the Lord have this young man sit next to that was so informed about the religion that he had been introduced to and now was going after whole heartedly. So, you guys had a terrific—you know, I overheard the conversation, it was unbelievable!
Dave:
So that was why I wrote, Seeking and Finding God , because what do I give to someone like this? They want to know more, they are interested. I don’t push it on people, if they are not interested, and sometimes—no, I won’t tell another story, we’ve got to get moving here, but I had to have something that I could give to people who were interested, but who had lots of questions. Maybe they are into reincarnation, maybe they are into atheism, maybe they’re into evolution, who knows! So that was why I wrote this book, now I’ve got something to give to people. And our listeners out there, I’m sure Gary will tell you how to get it. You might find this book very helpful for your own faith. It’s a small book; I guess one of the smallest I’ve ever written Tom.
Tom:
Dave, you’re right, Gary is going to give some information later, but for a brief period of time we want to offer the book at half price, which is around $3.50, I’m not positive about that, but Gary will let our listeners, our audience know. And, as you said, it’s a very small book; I don’t think there’s more than, probably it’s less than 150 pages content.
Dave:
Wow, that’s amazing!
Tom:
It is amazing, but Dave, the exciting thing is that it does present the gospel. It explains the gospel, all the things that I said at the top of the program here, the important things. And that’s why we have repeated this. I think we did this series back in 2004, but it’s the gospel. We’ve got to keep bringing this, I believe, before our audience, both viewing and listening audience. Now, chapter 1: Dave, you title the first chapter, “The Necessity of Certainty,” and you focus on death. Now, that’s not exactly a heart-warming, crowd-pleasing note or topic to capture the interest of the readers. Why do you begin with death?
Dave:
Well, Tom, there are so many reasons. Let’s take Christopher Hitchins—atheist—very brilliant guy, I don’t know whether I would want to debate him, he is so quick in his wit. But he has it all memorized, he has gone through this with various Christians.
Tom:
Well certainly, you don’t want to match his style, but in terms of content, Dave, “The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.”
Dave:
Right, but he can twist things, and he can quote the Bible, and you’ve got come up with—if you’ve never heard him before—that’s why I listen to these debates. Now I know somewhat of what they are going to say. But Christopher Hitchins, for example says, “Well, there’s nothing to worry about, when you’re dead you’re dead. You won’t know.” Well, that’s one view, other people have different views, they’re not sure. And why would I keep living, and you know, one of my standard explanations, somebody on a plane or wherever you can explain it in just a few moments. Well, your brain doesn’t think! Its matter, matter, material, its energy, that doesn’t think! There are no thoughts; you cannot get your brain cells to think any more than the liver cells. Where are you going to get thoughts of holiness or righteousness, or truth or justice or ambitions or desires? I mean if your brain originated your thoughts, you’re wondering, what’s my brain going to tell me to do next? It’s ridiculous! So, you are the thinker inside of your body, and you use the brain to—one of the first things that God does in Genesis, and I don’t even know what I said in this book, so it would probably be entirely different. But one of the first things God does—very amazing—in Genesis, it’s chapter 2. Well, it says He formed Adam out of the dust of the ground. Well, we know that our bodies, that’s what the chemical composition is, and in funerals they say, you hear the preacher say, “Dust thou art, and to dust thou shalt return.” Well, that’s what God said to Adam. But then you get this statement: He formed man out of the dust of the ground, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” So, immediately the Bible says there is a difference between the physical and the spiritual. And you cannot explain ideas for example. I love the way some scientists, and they are not even Christians, here’s Sir Arthur Eddington, I hope he became a Christian, but he was certainly very close, but he says, “Somebody says this talk about non-physical beings is nonsense?” Well, he says, “Give me a materialistic explanation or description of nonsense.” And then he points out, he says, “There is a—(Tom, I learn a lot, even from agnostics and so forth, some of these men are very wise, they have thought about these things) he says: “There is a difference between physical laws that must be obeyed and moral laws that ought to be obeyed.” He says, “ Ought takes us outside of physics and chemistry.” You cannot explain it on those terms. So immediately, this is what God does: He formed him out of the dust of the ground, that’s the body, but He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Now when you—you just stop me, Tom, I’m going on too much about this.
Tom:
No, no.
Dave:
This is not in the book, I’m sure.
Tom:
Well, No, actually it is, Dave, but you know, the wonderful thing about going over a book that you did a few years ago is that you’re doing another book that also applies to it. So what we hope to do, we’re going to go through Seeking and Finding God , but we’re going to add some more details that maybe are not in the book, or maybe explain better the things that you laid out very simply.
Dave:
Yeah, I don’t think I talked about the Law of Biogenesis in that book, and that is a law that they all admit is true. What is the Law of Biogenesis? If our listeners never heard of it, life comes from life! You cannot get life out of death! Who is the gentleman, a scientist who approved that? Louis Pasteur—that’s why we pasteurize milk. They used to think, oh there’s a pile of manure, look, there is nothing there, and then suddenly it begins wiggling things in there and spontaneous generation. That’s what they all believed in. Well, Pasteur put an end to that superstition; you pasteurize that and there’s nothing going to come out of there. And I might just point out, for those who believe in the “big bang” which I do not, many scientists; increasing numbers of top scientists are rejecting the idea of a big bang.
Tom:
But meaning what, Dave, for someone who never heard that idea?
Dave:
Well, there was nothing—I don’t want to make fun of it—there was nothing and nothing decided that all of us get together and we will have a big explosion. No, there was nothing, but somehow energy arrived. They can’t tell us what energy is, where it came from, and they would say that it was this entire universe, what became this entire universe compacted into—I remember sitting in Paris , France , discussing this with a scientist. He’s telling me this, and he said the size of an aspirin, that’s what all the energy was compacted into that, and then POW! We got an explosion. Now just think about that in relationship to the Law of Biogenesis and pasteurization. I mean, that fireball, it’s what they say, would have pasteurized everything a trillion times at least. And now out of that you’re going to get life? Somehow, this matter that you’ve got, the stars and so forth are going to become alive? No, so isn’t it interesting—Tom, I love the Bible, you cannot escape it. I say that many times, and it will answer every question you want to ask. What does John 1 say? Beginning with verse 1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” And then it says: “In him was life!” Law of Biogenesis: life comes from life. You’re not going to get it out of dead matter, okay? In him was life, and so you go back to Genesis, wow, the whole Bible hangs together, God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. It’s more than just something in our lungs, this is consciousness.
Tom:
So Dave, again you’re beginning this book with death, and what we’re going to see, we’re talking about it now but we’re going to see, the Lord willing, in the next couple of weeks is that there are other views. Number one, we’re starting out with those who say, hey, once you’re dead, you’re dead, period, it’s the end of it and so on. But there are a couple of other views, death and unconditional acceptance is the next step in our progression of our existence, spiritual events.
Dave:
Well, Tom, I just want them to know that death doesn’t end it all.
Tom:
Right.
Dave:
When you’re dead, yeah, your body is dead, but—and Tom, I’ve said it to people probably a hundred times on airplanes—when your body is molding in the grave, rotting and turning to dust, where are you—the thinker? Your brain didn’t originate your thoughts, you originated your thoughts. You are a non-physical being living in a physical body. You can’t refute it. It’s simple. Now where did you go? You are not subject to the laws of chemistry and physics, you are a non-physical being and you continue to exist. The Bible says we’re going to face God in judgment; we will give an account for everything that we’ve done. You see, Tom, don’t let me wander off too much, but here’s Richard Dawkins, probably the leader of the New Atheists who are out to destroy all thought of God, and I cannot fathom these guys, they contradict themselves. So Richard Dawkins said, “I just consider myself so lucky to be alive right now, at this time in history.” Wait a minute, alive? You’re not even a blip in the cosmic scale, and you’re going to die very shortly. You will have been here a very short time, your books will all turned to dust, and the whole universe is heading for death! The whole cosmos is heading for eternal night, frozen, everything’s gone! What is the significance of your little tiny life, you couldn’t even find it on the cosmic scale time. And you’re happy and you think it’s great that you’re here? That does not make any sense. Okay so, there are a lot of things we have to face people with. Tom, I’ve talked to young people, well, they don’t want to talk about death, and I can tell them—I used to think it was so far in the future—wow! It’s very close for me now. I often say to people, look: a business man sitting next to me, well, you prepared a lot for your career, you got an education, you know, you got a job, you’ve been working hard at it, but have you ever thought about where you will be after you die? Maybe you had better think about that and plan for that, because that's going to be a lot longer than this short life.
Tom:
Well, Dave, I am going to interrupt and go back to let our audience know what you’re going to be dealing with, what we are going to be discussing. You begin with three points: you have already addressed the first part, death, and there is nothing to prepare for, when you’re dead you’re dead, that the end of it all. We’re going to pick up with that next week, and after that there are a couple of other ideas that those who are thinking about death, or giving it some thought, death and unconditional acceptance is the next step in the progression of our existence. It’s a spiritual advancement, many believe that. Number three: death is followed by physical rebirth that improves one’s life through a continuous cycle of death and rebirth. So, these are 3 ideas that people have in the back of their mind related to death. Now what about death—and again we’re going to cover this quickly, but spend some time on it in the weeks to come. Death and unconditional acceptance, what’s that about?
Dave:
Well, Tom, when you are clinically dead, this is what they call it, I don’t think there is any such thing, otherwise there would be a resurrection. So, these people come back—I debated Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, if anybody remembers her, Death and Dying , she was—
Tom:
Psychiatrist.
Dave:
Right, a psychiatrist, she had interviewed, I think 20,000 and almost without exception, oh, yeah, I say myself going through this tunnel and then I came out in a beautiful place and there was this beam of light, and there were no sins to confess. I just felt this warmth and this love, this cosmic love and unconditional acceptance. And I didn’t want to go back, but then I was told that I had to go back to bring this message. And what is the message? Well, one of the lies of the serpent—you don’t really die. So, that’s an idea.
Tom:
Well, not only that but you’re accepted, whatever you’ve done, this is all a learning phase and you’re going to move on to the next level, and so on.
Dave:
Spiritism has been teaching this for a long time, and many of the world leaders were into this, for example, Queen Victoria . She was in touch with her husband who had died, Prince Albert through mediums. And I could name a whole lot of other leaders. Lincoln —they had séances in the White House. It’s a popular idea; you would move on into graduate school, continue to learn your lessons and we progress.
Tom:
And Dave, the 3 rd point, death is followed by physical rebirth, not only is that Hinduism, that’s Yoga, but it’s also a New Age idea that’s been sort of homogenized for the Western culture. So we’re going to talk about all of those, the Lord willing, in our next programs.
