Search the Scriptures Daily Program #0401a:
Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael, we’re glad you could tune in. Coming up in this week’s broadcast in our Understanding the Scripture segment, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of the doctrine of salvation, and “Just what is being born in the Spirit?” In Religion in the News: “Japanese Couples Prefer Christian Weddings,” we will look at that story. And, in this week’s Contending for the Faith segment, Dave and Tom will examine the question: Is Christian denial of self the same as Hindu self-denial? We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers many teaching materials including books, tracts, audio and video tapes and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disc. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, The Berean Call , which we offer free of charge. We will let you know how to order later in the program. Now: this week’s cover article. We continue with our series of discussions based on Dave Hunt’s latest book from Harvest House with Installment #34 of An Urgent Call to a Serious Faith , here are Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon:
Tom:
Thanks Gary . You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily a program in which we encourage all who desire to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living a life that is pleasing to Him. We’ve been using Dave Hunt’s book An Urgent Call to a Serious Faith as an outline for much of the biblical content we’ve been discussing. Our subject for the last few weeks has been the Christian life that is the life we have in Christ, often referred to as the crucified life, the resurrected life, the sanctified life, even the abundant life. Dave this life the Bible presents in Christ is neither theoretical nor just pie in the sky for the bye and bye is it?
Dave:
Well it’s not theory because it’s being lived out daily and it certainly is not pie in the sky in the sweet bye and bye. I don’t know that we will even have pie up there. That’s an expression that people use to disparage the thought of eternity. They often say you can be so heavenly minded you are no earthly good. Of course there is no one so heavenly minded as Christ and no one with such earthly good as Christ, but what we are talking about is something that is real right now and has a hope for eternity as well.
Tom:
In Chapter 20 of your book, among the aspects of our life in Christ that you discuss, actually throughout the book, but in this particular chapter, you start off with really Ephesians:5:20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;. The title is “In Everything Give Thanks,” or “Giving Thanks Always.” That’s actually Ephesians:5:20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;. Dave, this shouldn’t take too long. We simply tell those listening, especially those who take a “my cup is half empty” attitude to shift to “my cup is half-full thinking.” We tell them to count their blessings instead of dwelling on the down side of their lives. On the other hand, we could work this into a whole positive mental attitude, but this isn’t what we are talking about is it?
Dave:
That’s not what God talks about; it is not what the Bible talks about and Tom, of course we are really speaking about the Christian life so that moves it from this realm of positive mental attitude, success motivational thinking.
Tom:
There’s a lot of confusion out there about this. This is why I think it is important to address.
Dave:
There is and the verse you quoted says “in everything give thanks.” Now you couldn’t do that if you’re not a Christian. But the Christian has this promise in Romans:8:28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. “All things work together for good….” That’s not where it ends. Some people say oh all things work together for good. You have a tough time understanding that if you’re not a Christian. The Bible says “all things work together for good to them who love God; who are the called according to His purpose.” So you couldn’t possibly give thanks in everything, it doesn’t say for everything—in everything, if you’re not a Christian, but if you believe you are in God’s hands and that He really loves you, then you can give thanks to Him. One of my favorite authors from way, way back in the 1700s put it like this: “If you complain about your circumstances, you must either acknowledge that you are out of God’s will, or God doesn’t love you. One or the other. Now if God loves you and He’s all wise and you are in His hands and in His will, it may not seem pleasant. It may seem very horrible in fact, the things that can befall us in this life.
Tom:
Sure, it could be health, it could be persecution, it could be just the outcome of sin—maybe not your own, but somebody else’s.
Dave:
Yes, your house just burns down or whatever, a horrible earthquake, a loved one is taken, or you’re diagnosed with some incurable disease and then—how can you give thanks in that? I’m not giving thanks for this thing, but whatever my circumstances may be, I am thanking God, I am praising God for who He is, for His love, and I’m not dying that I’m in His hands. Job said “Thou He slay me, yet will I trust Him,” because otherwise I am second guessing God. I’m saying God, I know more than you do; I’m smarter than you are. I know the beginning from the end, I know what’s going to happening in the future, and I know what would be best for me. I can’t say that. Sometimes I use the illustration that it’s like a little baby in a crib that reaches out and Dad has carelessly left a double edged razor blade sitting there and it reaches and grabs it and it is just about to put it in his mouth when Mommy grabs his hand and takes it away. Now the baby is screaming and it thinks it has lost the greatest toy that it could ever find. No, mother knows best and our heavenly Father knows best. And so in everything that occurs and as I am saying this I realize I can be facing things that will challenge this very thought, but it comes from God’s Word. “In everything give thanks….” I am thanking Him. I am not giving thanks for my circumstances, although you know Tom we get quite a few letters from men who are in prison, some of them even on death row and they thank God for the fact that they got caught. They’re not thankful that they were criminals, but they’re thankful they were caught and put in prison, because that’s where they came to know Christ.
Tom:
Even more than that Dave, we’ve gotten letters from some who have ministry of prayer. I mean they realize that before they were living for self and living in sin and creating destruction. Now even though their circumstances are not what certainly the flesh would want, but it’s given them an opportunity to be used of the Lord as intercessors, praying for others you know, and even ministering one to another as they have opportunity.
Dave:
Right, Tom that reminds me, I can’t remember the man’s name, but in the Soviet Union , this was back in the Iron Curtain days, a Christian put in a horrible prison up in Siberia and he was winning people to Christ, even guards. But anyway his time came that he was to be released. [There was] a change in the régime and they realized that they had falsely accused him and so forth. He refused to be released. He said I want to stay here the rest of my life in order to help these other people. Well on the one hand you would say what a foolish thing to do! No, Paul said in 2 Corinthians:4:17For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; “For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18) While we look not at the things that are seen, but at the things that are not seen: for the things which are seen (that is those physical things around us that we can spend so much time and effort acquiring and enjoying) are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. And it says of Moses that he despised the things of Egypt . He turned down all the honors he could have had in Egypt because he had respect unto the heavenly, the eternal reward.
Tom:
Dave that’s so true, but we miss it so easily because we think giving thanks, not in every case, but often we think it has to do with us, what’s being done for us. If something good comes our way we’re thankful. The focus here isn’t on being used of the Lord or our heart and mind on Him. Colossians:3:17And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. says “And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.” In other words opportunities that come our way—where’s our head in this? Is it for us, or is it to be used of the Lord? We can certainly be thankful if we know if we are pleasing Him and doing things in which we can be a blessing.
Dave:
Tom we are such pitiful creatures, I hate to say it, but it’s true. We are worse than worms. I mean if Paul could say unto me who am less than the least of all saints…” and he meant of all Christians, how much more should we say that? So what is the point of trying to get something for ourselves, trying to build up ourselves? I am just astonished as I look around, even the church. Men follow men; they build up men and build themselves up with pride and so forth. No, God created us for His purpose and for His glory and if I could just understand that and really believe it and really recognize that this is best! What a joy, what a privilege to be serving Him and to saying God I want my life to be what you want it to be to count for eternity and to bring glory to you because thanksgiving is as you said, not just thanking God for the good things that happen to us, but it should move into praise of God, who He is, His love, the wonder of His grace, His patience, His mercy to us, His kindness. We need to, well I would just remind my own heart and challenge those out there, when was the last time you told God you loved Him? If you are a Christian, when was the last time you thanked Him just for the breath you have [and] for the opportunities that He gives? Do we really take advantage of the opportunities He gives us to serve Him, to help others? It can be just a thrilling life if we are in God’s hands and let Him have His way.
Tom:
Dave in programs past you tell us that you are 74 years old. Now it would seem to me that it would be easier for you to look to eternity and be thankful for what God has for you than certainly some teenagers that are—I’m a little younger than you are—but it’s a little easy for me to say oh well that’s way down the line, maybe 25 years if the Lord tarries and my health stays right and so on. But my point here is that this is a statement that you make in your book that we don’t look to God for what He has for us in eternity as much as we are preoccupied with our temporal life. Which can be abundant, which can be our life in Christ.
Dave:
Well, let’s say that this temporal life is going very well. Your happiness is in that and when it crashes, when some disaster comes then you’ve lost everything. But if your hope is in the Lord regardless of your circumstances, it doesn’t matter. I mean I’m not saying that circumstances don’t matter. My wife just had shoulder surgery and she is in a lot of pain right now. I don’t think she’s thankful for the pain, but in the pain she can thank the Lord for His grace and His goodness. So if my joy is in the Lord…
Tom:
Dave let me stop you there, because in the pain, thanking the Lord for His grace and His goodness, it’s difficult to even think those things when you are going through physical pain. But let me read…
Dave:
But in the pain—thanking God— See you started out the difference between the psychologist of positive thinking and so forth. We don’t thank God for His love and grace and goodness in order to ease the pain, in order to become positive. We’re thanking Him for who He really is!
Whether we are in pain or not, that hasn’t changed. So I’m sorry I interrupted you.
Tom:
No but I’m just moving this to a point that you make in your book. You say genuine and acceptable thanksgiving to God must have a source far deeper than a feeling of gratitude for the physical blessings of this temporary and fragile earthly existence. And then you conclude with talking about thanking Him for eternal life. Now that’s not just a “okay it’s bad now here in some ways, but I’m going to have my pie in the sky.” There’s a form of positive confession in a sense to resolve the problem. But that’s not the heart of what you’re talking about. It’s not even close.
Dave:
Right, that’s not positive thinking. Positive thinking simply allows me to change my attitude about circumstances. And hopefully then that will help me to have a different outlook and so forth. No, I’m not trying to change my attitude. I am praising Him for something that really is. I’m not trying to make it up in my mind; I’m not trying to create a situation with positive thinking, but instead of my thinking, I am recognizing who God is and what He has done. I don’t know who is listening to us out there. There could be people in wheelchairs, paraplegics—I know some. Someone who has just been diagnosed with cancer, I know a missionary that just came back from the field with that situation. We’re trying to help a young man in Romania , 20 years old [with a] brain tumor. Where is he going to get medical help? And so we are talking with doctors here and so forth. You know there is a lot of suffering in this world. We could go to the Sudan , or we could go to places where they are starving, or they are being tortured for their faith and the atheist says what kind of a God would create a world like this? If your God can’t stop evil He’s impotent. If He can stop evil and suffering and He doesn’t do it, He’s a monster. How can you thank God, the Creator of this universe when you look at the suffering around us? It’s just excruciating beyond our comprehension.
Tom:
You’re going to answer that. I hope.
Dave:
Well Tom you have two options. Either this is the way God wanted it to be and He planned it this way, and He in fact, just pulls the strings and we’re the puppets and [the] why is all hidden in the secret of His good pleasure and His will, or you could acknowledge that man does have the power of choice and God gave Him that. We’ve talked about this before, God gave Him that capacity so he could love. Husbands can love wives, wives love husbands, parents and children love one another and most of all so we can love God and receive His love. That opened the door to sin and to suffering. Sin and suffering are man’s fault, not God’s fault. And yet the real Christian who loves the Lord—the Psalmist he raises the question why do the wicked prosper? How come I am trying to serve you Lord and I’ve denied myself this and that and I’m seeking to please you and I spend so much time in prayer and things go so bad for me—it just goes wrong all the time and I’m suffering and yet I see this wicked person, he blasphemes you and things are going okay for him. He’s getting richer, fatter, all the time. The wicked spread themselves like a green bay tree the psalmist writes in Psalm 37. Well, the psalmist says yes, it really troubled me until I saw their end and I realized where this whole thing is going to take us. I am looking forward to being in your presence for eternity and going back to what we just said, the sufferings of this life are but for a moment. Going back to that scripture that I quoted, that’s from 2 Corinthians 4. We may have said this before I don’t remember. I can remember my father-in-law. [He had] a very small education, I don’t think he got out of grammar school. He was a traveling preacher—never had a salary; never read the newspaper; didn’t listen to the radio. All he knew was his Bible and I can remember sitting with him and he would take that verse backwards. He would say these sufferings work for us glory—NO! A weight of glory—NO! It says an eternal weight of glory—NO! It says an exceeding and eternal weight of glory—NO! It says a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory. So what lies ahead? You know it says of Christ in Hebrews 12 “who for the joy set before him endured the cross despising the shame.” It’s one of the things we need to teach our children. They don’t like to do their homework. Going to school is a drag, it’s horrible, but when you work your way through it and you do have some education, you can get a better job and you understand things better, it’s worth the time and effort. And Paul is saying it’s worth the time and effort in this life. But if I take this suffering and I complain, and I grumble and I complain to God how come you let me have this and so forth, then I am showing a lack of trust in Him. And I am not going to have that eternal reward. Now you’re going to have some suffering to go through, you might as well do it in a way that will work out an eternal reward. No, it’s not that pragmatic Tom. It’s because we really love Him and He is worthy of our praise.
Tom:
Dave when you were talking about the atheist who complains and who sees evil and death and destruction all around, at first off he’s not interested in what you’ve been talking about in the last few minutes—he’s not interested in this eternal weight of glory. In other words he wants to shut that off—
Dave:
He doesn’t believe it.
Tom:
Right, so he has no interest in turning to God other than just blaming God— the God who is the deliverer, who brings even the fruit of the Spirit within the most horrible of circumstances. You talk about these who are imprisoned and tortured and so on. How can they—and the man who wanted to stay in prison—not because he’s a masochist and he enjoys suffering, but because he’s knowing the peace, the joy, the opportunities that God presents for him to be used of the Lord.
Dave:
All the atheist has is this life. No matter how wonderful it may seem to be, it ends and death puts the final stamp on all the ambitions, all the schemes and dreams and plans, the best of plans that man has had. Now if that were the end, when you’re dead, you’re dead, then you could say let eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die as Paul argues in 1 Corinthians 15, but that is not the end and you know we’ve talked about that. The guy that sticks a gun to his head and pulls the trigger—he stopped the function of his brain cells. The bullet missed his soul and spirit. Bodies wear out. We have no reason to believe that souls and spirits wear out—the real thinking person inside. So we better get an eternal perspective. Whether it’s suffering or it’s benefits, or prosperity you better get an eternal perspective and that will change everything and let’s not forget to praise God and thank Him.
Tom:
Right. Dave, in your book you ask this question: Well first you say that giving thanks always is a rare commodity among Christians. Why, you ask and how can our attitudes be changed? Well we are out of time for this segment.
