Search the Scriptures Daily Program #3001a:
Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael; thank you for joining us. Coming up in today’s broadcast, in our Understanding the Scriptures segment, Dave and Tom will continue their exploration of the gospel of John and “Could Jesus really do nothing on his own?” In Religion in the News, “Keeping up with the clones,” we’ll take a look at that story and examine the question, “Is prophecy for today?” We hope you can stay with us. Our ministry The Berean Call offers many teaching materials including books, tracts, audio and video tapes and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disc. You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We will let you know how to order later in the program. Now, this week’s cover article: the 9 th installment of our series based on Dave Hunt’s book, In Defense of the Faith . Along with Dave Hunt, here’s T.A. McMahon:
Tom:
Thanks Gary . You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to him. We are going through Dave Hunt’s book, In Defense of the Faith, and we have been discussing the subject of “Who is God?” Dave, last week we talked about pantheism which is the belief that God is everything, is in everything and so on. One of the many religions that has developed out of that is nature worship. Boy, we are seeing not just through the environmental movement, but the rise of Wicca, witchcraft, nature worship, paganism, that’s a part of pantheism.
Dave:
Well it’s accepted in our schools, which is amazing. You have totem poles for example; you have an honoring of North American Indian native religion. Well they say it’s culture, but you can’t separate the religion from the culture. They worship the trees, they worship the sky, they worship the waterfall, they worship the eagle especially, and this is worshipping what the Bible says in chapter one of Romans, the creature, or the creation instead of the Creator. This is an error. You couldn’t get a greater error than that.
Tom:
Well Dave since you mentioned Romans, chapter one, let’s go through those verses. It’s actually Romans:1:18-32 [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
, so people will know it’s not just your objection to it or my objection to worshiping the creature or created things, it’s a biblical perspective. It’s what God has to say about it.
Dave:
Well Tom before we get to the biblical perspective, because maybe some people don’t want to hear the biblical perspective, although again, we keep saying it, we can prove the Bible is God’s Word. We can prove God exists. There’s no doubt about it, but it’s irrational to imagine that nature created itself. That creatures should be worshiped. The Egyptians did it. Everybody has done it certainly throughout North, Central, and South America this was done. Why would you worship a tree? Why would you worship a storm? I mean these creatures are so far below man as far as their intellect. They can’t talk, they can’t form creative ideas. They don’t know why they are here, they have instinct, and now we are going to worship them? We are going to worship nature? We are going to worship lightening? I mean it can strike you down. Mother Nature as they say causes earthquakes, and tornadoes and hurricanes, tidal waves. Nature is not kind. You can’t reason with nature, you can’t plead with nature, you don’t pray to nature. You don’t cozy up to an erupting volcano.
Tom:
Dave there are no morals in nature. Animals do things instinctively, they don’t do things on the basis of integrity, or loyalty, or whatever.
Dave:
Right, to satisfy their desire to fill their stomachs. You know a lion—there are no kind lions or elephants. They’ll stomp you into the ground.
Tom:
Yes, or particularly, although you know we seem to think that their acts may be mean and vicious, no, it’s just natural. It has nothing to do with morality.
Dave:
Right, in fact, they are not vicious like human beings. Human beings torture and kill often just for the pleasure of killing, if you can imagine.
Tom:
Well I don’t know, I’ve got a couple of cats, Dave, so I might challenge you on that. They do play with—
Dave:
Well, they play with the mouse, that’s true. But most animals don’t. Cats are playful in that regard, but most of them aren’t vicious.
Tom:
Right.
Dave:
The cat doesn’t have a conscience. It doesn’t know what it is doing, but man does. So then for man to look to these creatures below him and worship them— Well you want to get into—can I just quote a verse before you start going through there?
Tom:
Sure.
Dave:
We quoted it last week I believe. It says, “When they knew God…” See everyone knows God— we talked about that last week—in their conscience. We all know. “When they knew God, they glorified him not as God for they became vain in their imagination, their foolish heart was darkened and professing themselves to be wise, they became fools and they turned the glory of the incorruptible, infinite Creator, into creatures. It doesn’t make sense! Yet the Hindu Vedas promote it and so much religious literature does. The Bible condemns it. Sorry Tom, I interrupted and you want to get into let us see what the Bible says.
Tom:
Yes, but wait a minute. I’ll go back to some of the things that you’ve been saying because it really is fascinating. I remember awhile back, there was sort of a (and this sort of comes and goes) but there was really a strong interest in shamanism, particularly among the Indians and the Indian culture and so on and a lot of people were thinking about going on vision quests. And of course for the Indian, they want to find the power in them for guidance, for wisdom, for direction and so on and this was a part of their religion. Now the thing I find interesting about that is that why don’t animals have a religion? You know I don’t think any zoologist would say well, yeah we’ve got this species over here and they sort of gather together on Sunday morning, or chimpanzees, they rally around this particular object. We don’t find that.
Dave:
And Tom, it’s not just the pagans; it’s not just ignorant savages back there as you are pointing out. I remember a friend of mine, well a husband and wife, just out of curiosity; they did not believe what I had been writing about the Association for Humanistic Psychology and the inroads of occultism and paganism at the highest levels of our psychiatrists and psychologists and so forth. I think really to prove me wrong they went to an AHP Association for Humanistic Psychology Convention. This was in Indianapolis a few years ago and they got themselves into a workshop and there were a lot of people in there. First of all, they cut out—it was like kindergarten, these are PhDs and MDs and they’re cutting out figures to put on themselves like a crow, or a snake, or a coyote and they are coloring it up and then they are putting on these masks. And then they start to channel. They think they are channeling the spirits of these creatures.
Tom:
Well there’s a vision quest right Dave?
Dave:
Yes, and there’s a little snowbird that comes from Alaska supposedly and the person that has this mask on says, “I’ve just come from Alaska and I’m up in the snow, you know,” and its going on like that and the snake is hissing—these are brilliant (some of them) scientists, medical scientists and psychiatrists and university professors. Well this dear lady, a little bolder than her husband—the leader said “And are there any other animals that have some messages for us?” And this lady stepped right out of the middle of them and she began to quote John:3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. She said it was frightening. The snake begins to hiss at her and the crow begins cawing, and the animals are all in a frenzy and they are about to attack her and her husband grabs her to get her out of there. But this was serious stuff for them, Tom. So it’s not just ancient pagans, but you probably don’t want to get into that, but it’s called Ecotheology in our universities.
Tom:
Right, Ecotheology, is it Professor Fergus?
Dave:
Yes.
Tom:
Again, another university professor. What’s his motivation in this? Well they believe, to solve a problem, if we can encourage people to worship nature, then they won’t abuse nature.
Dave:
Yes, at the conference, when was it? Several years ago, in Rio de Janeiro on ecology. I think it was the head of the UN and I can’t remember his name at that time, but he said they used to worship the Nile River and they worshiped various rivers and so forth and he thought that it would be good if we could get people to begin to go back and worship the forest. Now this was the highest level conference on ecology that you can get. And they are back into the very same thing that the pagans have been into. It doesn’t make sense. It’s superstition and yet, this is what they want. Why? Well Romans tells us—I am sorry Tom, you want to get into it, but they’ve turned from the true God.
Tom:
This is a wonderful backdrop for what we are going to talk about. People who have been following this and are saying, no, no, I can’t believe this. We’re giving them facts with regard to what’s going on. And I am sure that many of them, if they take a minute; they’ve been exposed to this in one form or another.
Dave:
It’s in our grammar schools, that’s what concerns me. They are teaching this.
Tom:
Right. Now here’s what God’s Word has to say about this. If you are wondering why would this happen? Why would this take place? God’s Word lays it out very simply. Romans:1:18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth (that is who suppress the truth) in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.”
Dave:
He hath showed this to everyone. It’s there; it’s in the universe all around. We’ve talked about it last week. You couldn’t possibly believe it happened by chance. You couldn’t possibly believe that “nature” as they call it created itself. Nature does not have the capacity to think, to do anything, to plan, or to create. So they are without excuse the Bible says.
Tom:
Right. (Romans:1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:) “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made….” Dave if we could go back centuries and centuries, there was enough of God’s revelation from the stars and the universe and so on for even those who didn’t have our technology, but today when we are talking about the electron—
Dave:
Microscope, yes.
Tom:
…microscope. When we are talking about being able to look at a cell, to begin to see this complexity right before our eyes—
Dave:
Fantastic organization like nothing we can do.
Tom:
Absolutely.
Dave:
And Tom, again another modern example of it. Well this is religion and sacramentalism. The idea that you swing to the center, you say certain phrases, and physical objects have spiritual power. The lighting of candles which is all through witchcraft and all throughout the pagan religions, but it is still being done today as though a candle burning for someone has some spiritual power or will gain credit for God. This is again—idolatry.
Tom:
Yes, going back to verse 20, “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:” You just said it Dave. Are you going to lay this off on nature? Mindless nature? Or a God who is so powerful, so wise, omniscient, really—all knowing.
Dave:
So he says they are without excuse and this is why he is angry. This is rebellion. Deliberately blinding yourself to the facts, you know. You remember the old saying, “don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.” The old saying, “there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.” And God is angry about that.
Tom:
Verse 21 underscores the rebellion. “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22) Professing themselves to be wise…” Dave, we just talked about PhDs, college professors, medical scientists and so on with their masks on. Snowbirds—what is this? “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Dave:
Yes, here are these PhDs and MDs doing it. Exactly.
Tom:
Dave, remember sometime back, I believe we mentioned it in The New Spirituality , Dr. Jean Houston and her taking these congressmen, heads of state and so on, rebirthing them back to their ancestral beginnings.
Dave:
And got them on the floor writhing like snakes, making out like they are fish, opening and closing their gills, trying to visualize themselves back there in this way. In other words, this is the god who created us, evolution; we all came from these creatures. Well Tom, if it all happened by chance then the very theory of evolution happened by chance and therefore it is meaningless and there is no meaning and there isn’t a rational person who can accept that.
Tom:
But again it’s professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Verse 24, “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:” Now Dave just the first part of that— Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness. God’s—we’re not robots. God didn’t make us in a certain way that we had to do this, this and this. As we have talked about many times on this program, that destroys love, and God is love and he wants us to respond, certainly in love toward him. But still he says okay, you want to do it your way (again up to a point).
Dave:
Tom the next verses are rather interesting in view of the not the explosion of homosexuality and lesbianism, but the explosion of the acceptance of this. They are forcing themselves upon us and we are talking about nature worship. We are talking about creatures that are natural and look what it says, “Who changed the truth of God into a lie,” well go back to verse 24, “…through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:” in other words you are doing something that is unnatural. “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.” Now we have a day in which “oh let’s get back in touch with nature.” I mean natural food stores are everywhere. Let’s get back and do things naturally, and at the same time they’re doing things unnaturally. Absolutely contrary to what nature would tell you ought to be done. And [they] are trying to tell us that this is natural, it is in my genes. No, it is not in your genes. We could take you to seminaries, Roman Catholic seminaries where they insist upon celibacy and they themselves will acknowledge that 70% are involved, some of them, some of them to a lesser extent, but a huge percentage of these men are involved in homosexuality. Now you mean to tell me that the people that had this in their genes somehow chose the Catholic priesthood? Or you could go back to the early days of Australia . It was a penal colony. They sent them from England there and I can give you documentation. We have letters that some of these men wrote home. They hated homosexuality, they wanted to be delivered from it, but it was rampant there because there were no women. There was no way to have a natural expression of their sexuality and therefore they were driven into this thing. This was not in their genes.
Tom:
It was driven by lust.
Dave:
Well, yes then the lust takes over, but this was not in their genes. This is an unnatural affection that can be acquired, but now we open our schools, our grammar schools to these people who want to promote this as natural. It is unnatural, and who want our young children to experiment. Well check it out, we’ll explain how you can do it and so forth. Tom we are living in a day when God’s wrath is going to come upon us. We’re heading for Armageddon, we’re heading for the Great Tribulation, and we’re heading for the pouring out of God’s plagues upon this earth.
Tom:
Dave, again this is not just your idea. This is what God’s Word indicates very clearly. So if this shocks somebody, they’re not reading God’s Word. Let me finish up these verses. We’ve got about a couple of minutes to go in this segment. (Verse 28) “And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind,” You don’t do things God’s way, you do it your own way and the consequences are death and destruction.
Dave:
You reject God, you refuse to believe in God, then you begin to believe in anything and justify anything.
Tom:
Right and we are seeing the proof of it. God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient. Well “convenient” is not a good rendering here. It means—
Dave:
Not proper.
Tom:
Not proper, right. (Romans:1:29-32 [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
)“Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
Dave:
It’s pretty hard to read those verses Tom, without understanding what God is talking about. But we have homosexual churches. People who claim to be Christians and claim to have God’s blessing and claim that this is natural and they want society to bless them. It never has been thought of in any society in that way down through history, but now we live in a day when this is being force upon us and we must change. Maybe, are there 2%? And the 98% must change their morals and their views and accept this as okay. Well we have God’s Word condemning this, not just homosexuality and lesbianism, but rebellion in many ways.
Tom:
Right. Other forms of idolatry.
Dave:
Against God and we need, I mean it speaks to my own heart, we need to allow God to have his way in each of our lives.
