Calvinism
Question [Mar 2002]: I am deeply concerned about the increasing frequency of articles and comments in TBC that are harshly critical of Calvinism....To disagree with us on theological issues is understandable.
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Question: I think it is stunning that...the most influential Christians of the past 2,000 years have been Augustinians.
Before your young adults become indoctrinated in Calvinism, get them a copy of John Calvin Goes to Berkeley. The story of five University of California students who try to solve the mystery of predestination, this book prepares the reader for crusading Calvinists and their many proof-texts. Entertaining and informative, it is unlike any Christian novel you have ever read.
On Calvinism
Gary:
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, Dave and Tom continue their weekly in-depth study of the doctrine of salvation, please stay tuned. We return now to our program series from 2000 and—
CONTENDING FOR THE FAITH
In this regular feature, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call. Here is this week’s question. Isaiah 45:7 seems to state that God creates evil. How can this be possible if God is only and totally good? And if he doesn’t create evil what and why would it be?
Tom:
Dave, let me read Isaiah 45:7. “I form the light and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Well, does the person have a point here?
Dave:
This is a verse that, of course, the atheist critics have jumped on. Yes, why does God create evil? I think the verse explains itself. He says: I form light and create darkness. Well, we know that darkness isn’t something that God created literally—darkness is nothing—darkness is the absence of light. So, what He is saying is that the light reveals the darkness in contrast. If you grow up in a cave a hundred yards under the ground, totally dark, you wouldn’t be aware that you were in darkness that would be natural to you. If suddenly somebody came in with a flashlight, then you would recognize the darkness for what it is. So, God is saying that in the same way he creates evil. Evil is not something that God conjured up and then men have somehow fallen into this morass because God made them or God entrapped them in it.
Tom:
Imposed it upon them.
Dave:
Right. Evil is the absence of good, but it is more than the absence of good, it is opposition to good. In other words, the Scripture defines sin as falling short of the glory of God. We were made in the image of God and then the Bible says, “…all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” So, sin is anything that is less than God’s perfection. So, this is the way that God creates evil. In other words, he defines evil. His purity, his perfection defines everything else as evil, but evil isn’t something that God created and then entrapped man in.
Tom:
Right, but when we bring—when God allows for free choice, falling short of the glory of God is going to take place, right?
Dave:
Any being that has the power of choice that is less than God, will make less than godly choices, less than perfect choices. And this is what allowed sin to enter into the world. But, on the other hand, if we didn’t have the power of choice we couldn’t love God— we couldn’t love one another—we would be robots created to say, I love you God, I love you God, and it would be meaningless. Therefore, in allowing man the power of choice which man must have in order to know God, in order to love God, and to love one another, that opened the door to the possibility of evil but it’s not that—Well, the Bible says God cannot be tempted neither tempteth he any man. In other words, it’s not God’s desire that anyone should sin. It wasn’t God’s desire that Adam and Eve should sin and you could say that he gave Adam and Eve the easiest, easiest command that He could possibly give them. I don’t know how many trees were in the Garden of Eden, but I think there must have been millions of them. I don’t know what tree this was—I don’t believe that it was a special kind of a tree. It could have been an apricot, or a pear, or a peach, or whatever and there were many other trees I believe, just like this tree. But this particular one—let’s say there’s a thousand apricot trees and God points to one apricot tree and says just don’t eat of that one. You couldn’t ask for an easier commandment and yet we couldn’t keep it. The reason that He gave the commandment was not to entice man into evil, but to reveal the fact that man was capable of evil. I couldn’t say reveal the evil in man’s heart because Adam and Eve were perfect beings when God created them.
Tom:
Yes, but they had to make a choice every day. I mean, we don’t know how long it was from the time the command was given to the time they disobeyed. But that’s how you demonstrate love—this goes back to the point of choice that they loved Him and they were going to obey Him—if there was no condition set up for them to respond. I mean, that’s how—that’s a love response, isn’t it? To obey.
Dave:
That’s right. Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. So, God is literally giving them the easiest test he possibly could give. You know, when you get in the Army, the marines or whatever, they don’t send you off to the battlefield without testing you. You have to go through basic training. You’ve got to be tested and God was simply testing Adam and Eve. It’s like—Tom; we could make a little application for children and their parents. It’s like the little boy that disobeys his mother—let’s say not a little boy, let’s say a teenager—disobeys his mother all year, just disregards her desires, and just grieves her in so many ways but when it comes to Mother’s Day, then he gives her a nice present. Well, if all you knew was that he gave her a nice present on Mother’s Day, you would think what a wonderful son he is. But when you see the rest of the year, then you realize that there is something that isn’t right. So, as you said, it wouldn’t be enough for a man to say “I love you God” but let’s have a test and let’s see whether you really do. This is why God says in Deuteronomy 8 that He led Israel through the wilderness. And, I allowed you to thirst, to be hungry in order to see what was in your heart; whether you would really love me and obey me or not.
Tom:
Yes, there was a quicker route to the Promised Land, wasn’t there?
Dave:
Yeah.
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Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from Christian Newswire April 28, 2008, with a headline: “Celebration Announced For Calvin’s Birth, Theology, World Influence” The following are excerpts: Calvin 500.org announces its plans for a 2009 Quincentenery Celebration of the Birth of Protestant Reformer John Calvin, born in 1509. Multiple conferences are planned in Europe and the U.S. as an International inter-denominational and interdisciplinary commemoration of Calvin’s life and work. “Calvin is one of the most important thinkers in history,” said Calvin 500 Executive Director Reverend David Hall. His ministry and writings left an indelible impression on the modern world, and especially Western culture. Culminating with conferences and multiple locations in 2009, Reverend Hall says the celebration combines history, spirituality, and culture to recognize the life and work of the Geneva reformer. Calvinistic scholars and ministers will serve as popular guides to acquaint participants with Calvin’s influence, especially in Western thought, his vibrant city and the cultural, religious, political and economic impact flowing from the movement he helped lead. “The event is a multi-faceted approach seeking to introduce many people to John Calvin,” said Hall.
Tom:
Dave, maybe I could say, reasonably, you wouldn’t be one of John Calvin’s biggest fans. On the other hand, are there things that we can appreciate about John Calvin, as many of the Reformers, you know, they were either Catholics or Catholic priests. They had left the Roman Catholic church, which at that time, seemed to them at least, the only religion in the world, yet they abandoned Roman Catholicism, not everything, they brought some baggage with them, but what can we say about John Calvin? You’ve been to Geneva, I’ve been to Geneva, I’ve visited Calvin’s church, I’ve been to the Reformers museum there, and so, plus and minuses. What would you say, is it worth having a celebration of the birth of this Protestant reformer?
Dave:
Well, I don’t think so, Tom, but then the Calvinists get very upset. Luther? Yes. Luther, really he got this thing going. John Calvin did not accomplish that. John Calvin took over Geneva, and then he was thrown out of Geneva because he was too harsh.
Tom:
Yeah, he’s known as the Protestant Pope.
Dave:
Yeah, then they welcomed him back. Well, you had to obey. In other words, this was salvation enforced upon people. Suddenly, here they are opening your door, and they want to know—oops, you’ve got too many dishes on the table—oops, too high of a cloth on the wife’s head, and so forth. Not only that, but they were—well, during John Calvin’s time, when he was, well, he wasn’t the mayor, he wasn’t the head of it but he was the head of the counsel, at least they consulted him. I mean, well, what did John Calvin say? I think they burned 64 people at the stake, they burned them for various reasons. If you bad mouth John Calvin, you could be burned at the stake. On one occasion they cut one of the, I think it was only one, maybe it was two of the people that they beheaded, and they cut them in quarters and they nailed those quarters of these martyrs in various parts of Geneva to remind you, to let you know the consequences were severe. Now John Calvin enforced religion, enforced Christianity. I have a lot of problems with him because he introduced Calvinism of course, and I will only give you one feature. I’ve had Calvinists that say, Well, you complain about limited atonement, in other words, Jesus only died for the elect. Well, but the same thing with you because you say that Jesus died for all, but everybody doesn’t get to heaven, what’s the difference? Well, the very big difference is that we believe what the Bible says that God wants everybody in heaven, but it’s up to them to choose that Christ did die for everyone. But you Calvinists say, No, Christ only died for the elect—O, He could have everyone in heaven if He wanted them, but He didn’t want everybody there.
Tom:
Dave, there are so many confusing elements to this. Number One: Calvin leaves the Catholic church, he was persecuted by the Roman Catholic church.
Dave:
Well, let me just quickly, Tom, I know there is no time. He was on the payroll of the Catholic church for right up to the end, and then, well, I won’t go into the details but he was on the payroll for several years after he sort of made his break, but he was a bit dishonest in this.
Tom:
But my point here is that, Dave, one of his heroes, Augustine the doctor of the church who probably most false teachings of the Roman Catholic church came through Augustine. Now, Dave, in just a couple of minutes here, why has the evangelical church, many Calvinist Reformed theologians, why have they embraced this man who brought so much Catholicism into the church when Reformers have a history of being anti-Catholic? I don’t understand this.
Dave:
Well, Augustine believed in the death penalty for heretics, but Augustine, when you read his confessions, there’s a lot of good stuff in there, so it’s a mixed bag and pretty hard to sort out the good from the bad. The same would be with Calvin, you read his Institutes of the Christian Religion, there is some very sound doctrine in there, but mixed in it’s enough to—well, I would question. You see, Calvin said the only way to know whether you are one of the electives if you are baptized as a baby. Now you’ve got a lot of people who aren’t Presbyterians, they were not baptized as babies. Now how are they going to know whether they are one of the elect? You really can’t know, and R. C. Sproul tells of a time when he was so concerned about his salvation because he wasn’t performing well enough.
Tom:
Right, that’s the “p” in TULIP, perseverance of the saints.
Dave:
It’s not perseverance of God keeping you saved, it’s perseverance of the saints. But if you persevere then you’ve got a good chance, you think you are probably one of the elect, but you still can’t be assured.
Tom:
You know, Dave, this, again, it’s really confusing to me as a former Catholic. This smacks of Catholic’s “works” salvation, honestly.
