religion in the news
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book, and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2509, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. Now back to our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The Detroit Free Press with a headline: Breakfast Bibles. General Mills has apologized for packing CD ROM versions of the New International Version of the scriptures along with computer game inside 12 million boxes of Cheerios, Cheks and Cinnamon Toast Crunch. The NIV is the most popular version among evangelicals. It is the company’s policy not to advance any particular set of religious beliefs, Minneapolis based General Mills said in a statement. Inclusion of this material does not conform to our policy and we apologize for the lapse. But the apology came too late, the boxes of cereal with the CD ROMS are headed for grocery shelves across the country and will be distributed through August. Giving away Bibles on CD-ROMs that also include computer games and dictionaries is a $10 million marketing idea that soured. General Mills’ partners in the promotions spent a year working on a strategy to include the Bible in the cereal boxes without causing controversy. There is no mention on the outside of the boxes that the Bible is on the CD ROM, the Detroit Free Press reported. General Mills says it didn’t know the Bible had been put on CD-ROM’s and that it was slipped in without our knowledge, the company said in a statement. That is a flat out lie, Gregory Swan of Rhino Soft Interactive, a Wisconsin firm that helped create the CD-ROM’s told the news. General Mills got spooked with the idea of the Bible in their boxes, Phyllis Tickle, and editor at Publishers Weekly, told the free press. There would have been some controversy, she said, but this probably would have been a very popular idea. Swan, an evangelical Christian, developed the idea of marketing the Bible as part of a reference library for computers including a dictionary, thesaurus and encyclopedia. He said his company thought the cereal box idea was going to be very popular with millions of Christians. Controversy arose in March when Disney Interactive, whose computer version of the television game show, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, is included on the CD-ROMs told Swan that the Bible was too controversial and demanded it be taken off the millionaire CD ROMs. That held up production, software developer Ken Patterson told the Free Press.
Tom:
Well Dave, you know, this is interesting because on the one hand they got into this because they thought it would be a very popular idea, something that would particularly impress, you know, millions of Christians, but then they got cold feet.
Dave:
Supposedly, the world’s number one best seller.
Tom:
Right, but then they walked in fear of the controversy it would create.
Dave:
Well Tom, you are catching me off guard here, I don’t really know how to respond to this. Personally, I wouldn’t have put a Bible in there knowing that some people would be offended. Now I don’t think we can push God on anybody, in fact God doesn’t push himself on anybody. On the other hand, why should the Bible be so controversial? There are all kinds of books out there, people can read anything they want, if you don’t want it throw the CD away.
Tom:
Yeah, just like a toy, or something, well you get CD-ROM’s in the mail all the time trying to get you on the internet or online with America Online or whoever.
Dave:
But the Bible is controversial because if we are going to be honest about the Bible, it says all other religions are false, okay, and they don’t want that. So you can come out with any idea and the liberals are very liberal about everything except anything that challenges their liberalism, they will not allow that. It just affects the day in which we live, and the ideas that people have and what we were talking about earlier. Everybody wants to go their own way, but one way they don’t want to go is to believe that there is a God who created them who had some definite ideas, some definite morals for them, and the Bible makes that very clear, and they don’t like that.
Tom:
You know, Dave, with the interest in computers, you know I have Bible software and I think it’s absolutely tremendous, not only can I find what I want quicker, can I check it against, you know we’ve said over and over again here, if you’re going to search the scriptures make sure that scripture interprets scripture, and these are certainly vehicles that help that. On the one hand, you know you said earlier I think that we are finding scriptural illiteracy out there. Who is going to use these things, I mean they are free but who would use them?
Dave:
Well, hopefully it would eliminate, or at least help to mitigate, reduce the amount of biblical illiteracy. People don’t read very much anymore, although books do sell but we’re becoming illiterate in a lot of ways. God gave us His Word, in words, it’s written in a Book and it’s to be read. And Tom, I guess I could offend people I don’t want to get off on something else, but sometimes as I see some of these films that have been made, supposedly to depict the life of Jesus, and we’ve got inadequate actors, special effects trying to improve the Bible, you know, what’s wrong with the Word of God? He speaks to us in His Words and we need to get back and meditate upon the Word of God and search the scriptures daily, that’s what this program is all about, unfortunately, everybody doesn’t want to do that. I don’t think you can force it upon them; you might have been able to encourage them in a cereal box.
Tom:
That’s not too coercive, the idea of a finding, it doesn’t take much to offend people.
Dave:
That’s true, Tom, and yet nobody seems to be offended about offending God, nobody seems to be offended about the fact that this whole world is just going on merrily its way, making it’s own plans without even thinking about God, that offends me highly. People have their own ideas of what they want to be offended about I guess.
Tom:
Dave, you know one of the things that I’m finding, I was just going through a Christian magazine the other day and they are talking about sort of a resurgence in the popularity of Christianity, not just Tim LaHaye’s books but now there are films that are out there, then the cross over films, and so on. Does that worry you? You know on the one hand we want to encourage people to get into God’s Word and so on, so we would like it to be popular but at the same time when things get popular somehow they go sour or go South very quickly.
Dave:
I used to travel a bit, not a great deal, but we had the privilege to taking Bibles and things behind the Iron Curtain, and I can remember the Soviet citizens back then, I mean the Christians, asking, Why is Christianity so popular in America? And we’re being persecuted for it over here? I was speaking to Robert Anderson the other day and one of the things he said was the majority is usually right in most things, but when it comes to religion everybody wants something and religion is the one place where that rule doesn’t work. You can almost count on it, it’s wrong and I hate to see that happening with Christianity because Jesus was not popular.
Gary:
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come in this revisit to our 2000 series, “Religion in the News” plus answers to your questions in “Contending for the Faith,” and in “Understanding the Scriptures” Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2409, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Orlando Sentinel, with the headline: “Mental Health Professionals Battle Mental Disease:” Many mental health professionals, psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists and nurses have waged, or are waging their own battles against a mental disease. Studies have found that psychiatrists have the highest suicide rate among physicians, and a 1994 survey of psychologists found almost two-thirds had battled clinical depression, 84% had spent time in therapy, and 29% of psychologists had felt suicidal at some point. Mental illness among therapists is more common than in the general population. Neither the American Psychological Association nor the American Psychiatric Association requires practitioners to tell patients whether they themselves have suffered from a mental illness or disorder.
Dave:
Tom, the psychiatrist and psychologist as a group are the most atheistic of any group, any profession. I know a number of men who have gone into it and have lost their supposed faith, because it is an attempt to explain human behavior without God, without the soul, without the spirit. It began with Freud’s medical model, so everything was just the genes and the nerves and the function of the body, and somehow that explained everything. Now, as you know, psychology and psychiatry have moved way beyond that into transpersonal and into all kinds of mysticism and so forth. But I think this is a valid news item, I mean it was a news item and it is newsworthy that those people who claim to be the ones that are going to tell us what is sound mental health, are themselves suffering more than any other profession from the very problem that they claim that they understand and are the experts in curing. In fact, it has been said that psychology is the only profession that causes the disease of which it claims to be the cure, and you can see that in the people themselves. Now why you would turn to these experts is like going to a bald barber and learning how to grow hair. These people have the problem, we have psychiatrists going to psychiatrists and they can’t straighten one another out.
Tom:
Dave, early on, psychoanalysis—all psychiatrists who had a Freudian bent and that was the main thrust years ago—they had to be psychoanalyzed themselves. As you know, my Dad was a psychiatrist, and he suffered from many of the things that are in this article. And I used to think about why he had these problems, and I believe now it’s because I think he had a heart, a desire to help people and I think most psychologists, psychiatrists do, but it doesn’t work. So if you’re in a profession in which you are trying to help people, and basically they are dumping all their problems on you, and the best you can do, it’s like having a room with furniture, all you can do is keep relocating the chair, the desk and keep moving things around. So if you have a heart for people you’re going to take this burden on yourself and you’ve got nowhere to go with it, so that’s going to lead to suicide, drinking and so forth.
Dave:
Yeah Tom, as we keep reminding ourselves and our listeners this program takes its authority from the Bible. And the Bible claims to give us all that we need, 2 Peter 1, “He has given us all thing that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who has called us to glory and virtue, whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises that by these you would be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” The secret to the Christian life is not gritting my teeth and somehow trying to be a happy person, somehow trying to overcome problems but it is—
Tom:
Or their thinking, positive thinking or positive mental attitude, and put yourself into another mind frame—it doesn’t work.
Dave:
The whole thing is, I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. The life that I live, this is the life of Christ, Christ has become my life. That is so fantastic! Buddha didn’t offer anything like this, Muhammad doesn’t offer anything like this, Jesus died for our sins, was buried, rose again, He said, because I live you will live also. He promised the Holy Spirit, He came to live within our hearts. So the secret to the Christian life is Christ in you, the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of therapy, the fruit of the Spirit living within us, empowering us is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, temperance, meekness, so—
Tom:
Dave, let me stop you. If a psychiatrist could offer that, but they put that on their shingle out front, they would have more business than any human in the universe.
Dave:
Right. So Tom, since the Christian is experiencing Christ living within him, He is the vine, we are branches, His life is pouring through like the life a vine through the branches to bear the fruit. I don’t think Jesus Christ needs any help from psychiatrists. I don’t think the life of Christ within us needs to be psychoanalyzed or improved, it’s just that simple. So you either believe what the Bible says or you believe some Johnny-come-lately, Freud, I mean, he had so many problems, and psychiatrists have all kinds of problems, and now they are trying to analyze and solve the problems without God. But then are going to sort of amalgamate this, we’re going to come to a partnership between the Bible, which doesn’t need any help, and psychology—
Tom:
Well Dave, here’s the dichotomy. Psychiatry is all about self, self is the solution to the problem. God’s Word says, Matthew 16—deny self. So you have, I mean at loggerheads right away. There is the problem as simply as we can state it.
Dave:
I’ll go with Jesus and the Bible rather than Freud!
Gary:
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2309, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from USA Today, dateline Paris, France. A French court convicted actress and animal activist Bridget Bardot of inciting discrimination, hatred, or racial violence after she criticized a Muslim practice. Bardot was fined $3000 for a chapter in a book in 1999 in which she wrote, “my country France, my homeland, my land is again invaded by an overpopulation of foreigners, especially the Muslims. In the book Pluto’s Square she criticized the practice of killing sheep during the celebration that marks the end of the holy month of Ramadan.
Tom:
Although this wasn’t even a slap on the wrist for Bridget Bardot, a French national heroine of sorts, she was convicted of inciting discrimination, hatred or racial violence. Dave, well let me add a couple of things to that—
Dave:
I would kind of agree with that Tom. In other words, she’s not talking about theology; she’s not giving a valid objection. People kill sheep all the time. I love leg-of-lamb, so why shouldn’t the Muslims be allowed to kill sheep if they want to? So I couldn’t agree with Bridget Bardot and I think she is kind of inciting people because she says our country is being overrun by foreigners. I’ve experienced a little bit of that myself living in foreign countries. So we’re not talking about facts there. This is prejudice that she’s stirring up.
Tom:
Okay, but now we have a law in which they are deciding what is racial discrimination. What is hatred and what is racial violence.
Dave:
Well she should be entitled to her opinion.
Tom:
That’s absolutely true. Now Dave this is something that’s—we start with Bridget Bardot, but now let’s go to Great Britain.
Dave:
Can I—let me just finish a little further here Tom. See another part of the problem—again I am saying I don’t like what she said. I think it wasn’t wise and I think it is prejudicial against people saying we’re being overrun by foreigners. On the other hand she should be allowed to express her opinion; she shouldn’t be fined for that. Furthermore, why doesn’t the West—if we’re so concerned about protecting the rights of these people in France, why doesn’t France speak out about the lack of rights for their citizens who happen to be in Saudi Arabia? You must be a Muslim to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia. It is the death penalty for a Muslim to convert in Saudi Arabia. Why don’t we talk a little bit about that too you see? So there ought to be two sides to this coin.
Tom:
Yes, but my concern here Dave is that when the courts begin to take over and begin to say what is discrimination, hatred or racial inciting these things—what is inciting these things—well as I said let’s go to Great Britain. Recently an evangelist in Great Britain who condemned homosexuality as an abomination before God was fined £20,000 by the British Independent Television Commission for “prejudiced respect for human dignity” which “violated the code against denigrating the code against religious beliefs.” Now you see this isn’t $3000 and a slap on the wrist. Now we’ve moved up and we have—although this isn’t a court system, this is a code that people have to abide by and who is saying what’s prejudicial and what isn’t? Now let’s bring that to this country. Just recently the Senate passed; well actually they approved expansions of a federal hate crimes law to increase penalties for those who commit crimes because of a victim’s actual or perceived sexual orientation. The big concern here is that we are beginning to legislate with regard to what is inciting racial prejudice, what’s inciting hatred. These all have to do with a kind of intolerance with regard to (as you said) what this woman takes with regard to her opinion about certain people.
Dave:
In the name of tolerance! They are intolerant to the max! In other words, I am not allowed to say that the Bible condemns homosexuality?
Tom:
No, you’re not according to this Commission.
Dave:
So I’m not entitled to my opinion and they can push themselves on society, but I can’t stand up and say wait a minute this isn’t right. They can have their gay pride parades—I don’t know how you can be proud of something that is not natural, something with which, if everybody engaged in it, it would end the human race because they don’t procreate. Something which causes disease, I mean if you know something about the practices of some of these people—and this is human dignity which they are upholding and now if I object I am denigrating human dignity? No! I want some dignity that abstains from this sort of thing. That would be dignity. Furthermore, it is a slap in the face to God. It is the very first command that God gave- “be fruitful and multiply” and these people are saying to God—no we are not going to do that. We are going to have sex with our own sex so we don’t multiply on this earth and that would be the end of the human race. I think I ought to be entitled to say that. The Bible has said it. Now let them disagree, that’s fine, but don’t fine me or them for disagreeing with one another.
Tom:
Right, but that’s where we are going Dave. These are court cases, fines—how far can they go with this? I mean jail terms—
Dave:
So in the name of freedom to these people, they are denying me my freedom.
Tom:
Dave I have an idea of where this is going and it doesn’t really look good. If an evangelist can be fined $70,000 some thousand dollars for just saying what the Bible says, how long will it be before the Bible itself is banned as hate material?
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come to this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2209, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious comments and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Bend, Oregon Bulletin, dateline Zillah, Washington: “And a B Movie Monster Shall Lead Them.” In West Zillah, where city starts to blend in the farmland, the ten-foot tall skeleton of a T-Rex lords over the gravel parking lot of a rambling ranch-style church. Below its fierce mog, gripped in one white steel claw hand is a cross. In the other hand is a vacant placard. Godzilla, the mascot of the Church of God in Zillah is patiently awaiting his marching orders. “We thought about putting service times on it,” says the Reverend Gary Connor referring to the anti plaque in Godzilla’s left hand, the congregation hasn’t yet decided where to plant the beast that stomped Tokyo out front on Shane Road or in a playground in the back. Undecided too, was whether to permanently illuminate Godzilla’s beady red eyes. We thought about mounting it by the road with a motion sensor, says Connor, so that every time a car went past, its eyes lit up. Godzilla was built and donated several months ago by a mechanic and carpenter who attend the church, and for the moment, only lies low in the church parking lot between parade gigs when it’s drawn on a trailer behind the church’s drill team. After church members decide where to permanently locate the beast they’ll consider covering the steel frame with reptilian flesh for authenticity. Of course the Godzilla hubbub didn’t start with a T-Rex skeleton outside. Before the Godzilla statue, there were the popular t-shirts picturing a Godzilla clutching a golden cross in post urban stumpage. The only building left standing? The church, of course. “It’s Godzilla, that is God-Zillah squashing evil,” says Conner. “When God gives you a serendipitous homonym, such as the Church of God, Zillah, it’s your duty to find a way to capitalize on it. It’s brilliant really, and it just fell in our laps,” he says. Connor sees Godzilla as something of an evangelist beckoning in curious passers-by who will then hopefully, stay on to hear the Word. So far the monster has done his job, helping spread the church teachings well beyond the Zillah community. “As you drive past the kids go, I want to go to the church where Godzilla goes,” says Connor, who’s 50 and an admitted fan of old monster movies. He shrugs, “different people use different lures to catch fish.” “Also,” he thinks, “the monster lets people know his church isn’t made up of religious martinets who can’t take a joke.”
Tom:
Dave, I know some people are pulling their hair out over this, on the other hand some people are thinking, well you know, whatever it takes to get people into church, let’s go for it. What do you think?
Dave:
Tom, you must have made this up, this isn’t really happening, it’s in the town of Zillah, Washington, is it?
Tom:
It’s the Zillah Church of God.
Dave:
Well, I guess it’s kind of an indication that the Bible is not enough, Jesus Christ is not enough, the truth is not enough, let’s get Godzilla in on this. This reptilian critter has got a cross in one of his paws, his hand, Tom, I can’t take it seriously. It’s incredible that somebody would do this! Anything to get people to come to the church, and I want to go to the church that Godzilla goes to. Tom, I can’t take it, I can’t believe it, and yet I guess that’s symptomatic of the day in which we live. The Bible isn’t enough? I find the Bible the most exciting book in the world. It is fantastic; I get excited about the Bible! But now we’ve got to get something else to draw them in? Tom, it’s just incredible!
Tom:
Dave, a very wise young youth pastor—youth pastors have to deal with this thing all the time. I mean they have to attract kids; at least that’s what they are told. He said, and I don’t know if it was original with him, but he said, “What brings them in keeps them in.” The idea is that they are brought in by novelty, if they are brought in by something exciting or bizarre, whatever it might be, that’s what they are looking for. So we’re in a day of advertising, we’re in the day of infomercials and all of that, but it cannot be applied to somebody who is seeking out truth, God’s Word, God himself. I don’t think.
Dave:
Well, Jesus said this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God in Jesus Christ who now is sent, and I don’t think Godzilla is one of those who points the way to Christ. On what basis would he point the way to Christ? Godzilla is, of course a fictitious character, an evil monster in fact. What relationship does he have to the Bible, and why, why? This is fantasy! Why would someone then, on the basis of this fantasy, creature, this monster, this evil critter then come to a church, and you would expect that that will be their path into the truth, into Jesus Christ? Tom, it’s again, tragically symptomatic of the day in which we live, and I’m sure most of our listeners are just shocked by this, and yet here it is, it’s happening, I thought you had made it up!
Tom:
No, he says, to finish off the article, he says, what’s the Church of God take on this? So far Connor hasn’t heard any grumblings. I’m not really sure the denomination likes being affiliated with the big lizard, said Connor, but so far they’ve been pretty cool. Well, I don’t know “cool” is the right word, but that’s the day in which we live Dave.
Dave:
Yes.
Gary:
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2109, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The Seattle Times with a headline “Activist Seeking Legal Personhood for Great Apes.” Sometime in the next decade a chimpanzee will have its day in court and on that day it will be decided if “chimps are people too.” At least this is the goal of an ambitious group of lawyers fighting to dismantle the legal principle that animals are property with no fundamental rights. The lawyers call it “The Great Ape Legal Project.” It supporters hail from some of the most prestigious schools in the land. The goal, what many see as the next logical step in the animal rights movement is to raise the status of Great Apes from property to people with rights to life, liberty and perhaps even the pursuit of happiness. The question at the core would be whether chimpanzees and other great apes possess the characteristics that qualify them as legal people. The property status of animals is what allows humans to buy and sell them, breed and experiment on them, eat them and make their body parts into trinkets, trophies and briefcases. If animals gain legal standing, it would allow for dramatic changes in the way animals could be protected. Animal law courses are now being taught at Harvard, Yale, Georgetown and a dozen other law schools. And hundreds of lawyers in the United States, a dozen of them in the Seattle area practice some form of animal law. Predictably there’s no shortage of critics who consider the project ludicrous and dismiss the notion of a great ape legal trial as absurd. But a growing number of legal thinkers on both sides of the debate say such a case is not only possible, but inevitable. Stephen Wise a Boston lawyer and teaching Animal Law at Harvard says the social and intellectual climate in the United States will be ready for a great ape trial within 10 years. Wise was in Seattle recently promoting his new book Rattling the Cage which calls for legal personhood for chimpanzees. One consequence of this trial may be the end of society as we know it according to University of Chicago professor Richard Epstein who calls legal personhood for animals a dangerous idea. “Where would it stop?” the law professor asks. Would we then proffer rights to whales and dolphins, rats and mice? Would even bacteria have rights? It’s one thing to raise social consciousness about the plight of animals and another to raise their status to an asserted parody with human beings Epstein says. That move would pose a mortal threat to human beings. Steve Van Chambers is president of the Animal Legal Defense Fund a national network of lawyers working on behalf of animals. He believes the legal status of apes will change in increments, but cases would build a legal foundation upon which an eventual breakthrough trial maybe launched.
Tom:
Dave, all of this raises some interesting scenarios. For example, think of the gorilla that is successfully granted legal personhood and then is released from an animal internment compound once known as a zoo and after release he steals a bunch of bananas from a local grocer, hospitalizes a couple of policemen who try to apprehend him, and ends up in the county jail for theft and resisting arrest. So we’ve moved him from the zoo to our county jail.
Dave:
Tom, I almost can’t take this seriously.
Tom:
But Dave, these are attorneys, Harvard, Yale, Georgetown graduates. These guys are serious.
Dave:
Some of them I can’t take seriously and I’ll tell you why. This springs from evolution and I can’t take evolution seriously. It just isn’t true. Collin Paterson for example, the head paleontologist at the British Museum of Natural History—he wrote a book about evolution and someone just wrote to him and asked why didn’t you have some pictures in there of intermediary fossils? There should be millions, and billions of examples of intermediary stages. He wrote back and said frankly there aren’t any. And if I were writing that book today I would say something different. But evolution, we’ve talked about it before. Mathematically impossible, it is ludicrous.
Tom:
That life would form by chance. From non-life.
Dave:
Yes. Well that you could even get enough of the thousands of molecules strung together in the right order by chance. I mean you haven’t even begun to get to human brains. So it just is ludicrous, it is absolutely impossible, no rational person would entertain such an idea except—if you deny chance then you have to admit that it’s design. Our brain has been designed, our universe has been designed, the atom has been designed—then there must be a Designer and we are accountable to Him. So this whole thing now—well if we could just prove that animals are persons. Look, I don’t much about law, but if I were the attorney on the other side, I would say let us call the plaintiff to the witness stand. Let’s have the gorilla there and I will cross-examine him. The guy can’t even answer questions, he doesn’t have any idea of what this lawsuit is about, we’re going to make a person out of him? No!
Tom:
Now Dave, I know we’ve said on these programs before animals do not act morally. They act naturally. Things that they do one to another—I mean are we going to charge a gorilla with rape? Are we going to charge a gorilla, or a baboon that’s leading a troop that he kills his most fierce competitor? Is he going to go on death row now for premeditated murder? I mean this is just absurd!
Dave:
Yes it is absurd Tom and the only reason why they are pushing this is to escape God. To escape what the rational mind tells you it couldn’t happen by chance. What the conscience tells us. We are accountable to God, Romans 2. The laws of God, His moral laws are in every human conscience. They are not in animal consciences. The Bible of course says the spirit of the animal goes to the earth. The spirit of man returns to God who made it either for judgment forever or to be with Him in heaven. Not animals. So the animal has no concept of right, he wouldn’t even know what was going on in the court room. We have the idea of incompetency—they’re insane or they’re incompetent, they don’t understand their rights and so forth. They are not treated like competent people. Now an animal hasn’t even come that far. They’re animals, they have no idea what’s going on and this is ludicrous!
Gary:
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2009, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Scranton Times Tribune: You can find them in most any classified section of the local newspaper—prayers of thanksgiving for prayers answered. Different people are putting them in all the time said Susan Shotwell inside sales manager for the Times Tribune newspapers. Their prayers are answered so they feel they have to put in an ad. Many advertisements say that if the prayer is said for three days the prayer request is granted. The prayers are also know as “known to never fail.” In thanksgiving for the prayer being answered publication must be promised. Some are short and contain a thank you to either God or the Blessed Virgin Mary, or St. Theresa, or St. Jude, or St Anne. The identities of the advertisers are usually not known, Susan said, because the ads are prepaid. Most people just walk in with the ad they want and pay cash, she said. We have a ton, she said. They’re really popular in this area. The Reverend John Schemeil, assistant pastor of St. Peter’s Cathedral and secretary to Scranton Diocese and Bishop James C. Timlon said he sees no harm in the advertisements. “I’ve read them,” he said, “and there’s nothing wrong with them. That’s the way some people express their faith.” Father Schemeil likened it to the variety of ways people express their faith such as meditation and silent prayer in church. “It’s not a bad thing,” he said. It’s a public witness to prayer too.” The Reverend Peggy Sue Pfeiffer, pastor of St. Peter’s Lutheran Church said she too believes the ads are harmless, but she’s not sure it is necessary for someone to place an advertisement in a newspaper to thank God for answered prayer.
Tom:
Well Dave this is primarily Catholic but this is not beyond some Protestant ideas that I’ve seen out there.
Dave:
Well Tom I have no objection to people thanking God for answering prayer and if they want to do it publicly, but I think the publication in a paper of the thanksgiving is part of the technique that—
Tom:
Dave let me read one to you. Here’s one: Thank You God, Prayer to God: Say 9 Hail Marys for 9 days. Ask for 3 wishes, first for business, second and third for the impossible. Publish this article on the 9th day. Your wishes will come true even though you may not believe it. Thank you God. P.S. It really does work! M.M.; Then we have another one: Thank you St. Jude for prayers answered. R.R. So this is a little bit more than—
Dave:
Well as I said this is part of the technique and in order to be assured that the prayer would be answered you have to pledge to put this ad in. Now it has nothing to do with God’s will. It’s just like magic; it’s like voodoo. This is a technique and if you follow this technique it will, as one of the little prayers there says, or one of the little ads there says it will work! You don’t even have to believe it, but you follow the technique and it will work.
Tom:
And Dave in addition to that we have so-called intercessory prayer or as the Catholics would say, invocation to the saints. Now here you’ve got a problem. We are supposedly speaking to the departed, the deceased; holy or not. I mean if they’re saints they are supposed to be holy, but that’s not biblical. Actually it’s out of the Apocrypha, 2 Macabees chapter 15.
Dave:
Well Tom it reminds me of Luke 18 where Jesus presents the Pharisee in the temple and it says: Jesus said “The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself…” His prayer didn’t even reach God because trusting in his good works and his fasting and his tithing giving and so forth. And that doesn’t count with God. It’s grace, God’s grace, God’s mercy according to His will. So if you have a technique that you think is going to activate God; that is going to cause God to respond to your will, then you have been deluded by the devil. This is one of the worst lies that you could possibly believe. Now I wouldn’t put it past the devil to answer your prayer to continue to lead you down this path farther and farther away from God and from His truth and true faith. In contrast it says the publican dared not even lift his eyes up to heaven. He beat on his breast and said God be merciful unto me for I am a sinner. So that man went away justified Jesus said. He’s trusting in God’s mercy. These people are imposing their desires upon God. No, you don’t impose your desires upon God. So if you have a technique that works, it could be coincidence or it could be that the enemy of God is answering your prayer in order to deceive you. But this is not godly prayer. This is not what is taught in the Word of God.
Tom:
Right and what we are trying to do here, is we are trying to bring this to the attention of those who may be unwittingly be doing this because it’s just around and they think it is right. But, they are to search the scriptures. This is not according to God’s Word. Simply stated, if it’s not, it’s a problem, not a solution.
Dave:
Right, so Tom prayer itself is supposedly asking God—where do I get the idea of prayer? Where do I even get the idea that God would even listen to me? From His Word. I better search the scriptures to find out what it says.
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead in this revisit to our 2000 series, “Religion in the News,” plus answers to your questions in “Contending for the Faith,” and in “Understanding the Scriptures,” Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials, including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #1909, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Birmingham News. Before the first feather appeared November 16th, Pastor Sam said he had been preaching that his interdenominational congregation was on the verge of something big. “God’s fixing to do something that we’ve never seen, he told his flock, and it’s going to blow our mind.” But even the pastor said he got uneasy when the unusual events began. While his church is openly Pentecostal, Sam said he had never veered into “wild, loony stuff.” “When you say you are receiving manifestations of angels, people think you’re crazy,” Sam said. To the natural ear, it sounds foolish. The pastor said he may have the feathers tested, but no matter what the findings, he’ll always believe they came from God. “I’ve had around 15 feathers appear before my eyes,” he said. The evidence is just overwhelming. Sam said, “Miracles shouldn’t seem out of the realm of possibility for a God given credit for such things as parting the Red Sea, crumbling the Walls of Jericho, and raising Jesus from the dead. It’s just amazing how close we walk to the supernatural realm,” he said. “The only thing hindering us from it is our own faith.”
Tom:
Dave, feathers—we’ve had gold dust, we’ve had gold teeth and feathers. That’s interesting.
Dave:
Well Tom, you’re trying to be kind. It’s—oh, I shouldn’t use the word, it is a bit ludicrous. I don’t think angels have feathers on their wings. The Bible very clearly says, “He maketh his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire,” Hebrews 1. So the idea that angels would have physical form and that they would have physical feathers— I mean you are going to fly to Heaven with wings made out of feathers? It doesn’t compute Tom, it doesn’t make sense.
Tom:
Well Dave, years ago, Pastor Buck, remember Pastor Buck?
Dave:
Sure.
Tom:
Pastor Buck was taken up into the 3rd heaven and he was right there in the throne room of God and when asked how he knew it was the throne room of God he said well there are feathers on the floor. You know and he was quoting what is it—Psalm 91? “He shall cover you with his feathers and under his wings you shall take refuge and his truth shall be your shield and buckler.”
Dave:
Yes, well Tom right there in the portion that you quoted, you have the refutation of—God is some kind of big bird with feathers. “His truth shall be your shield and buckler.” How do you make a shield out of—shield and buckler, that’s what it means, you know the buckler is what you hold on to that shield with. How do you make a shield out of truth? And Paul writes “…taking the shield of faith where with you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.” Now if demons are shooting fiery arrows at us, then I guess angels have wings with feathers, but that’s not what it is talking about and one of the basic errors that man has fallen into is exchanging the spiritual for the physical. We become earthly minded; we become materialistic and we think something isn’t real unless it is physical. So, it doesn’t make sense. I mean what is the point?
Tom:
Dave before you address the point, in the Old Testament we have angels described with feathers, whether it be the cherubim or the seraphim. But it is interesting—
Dave:
Where does it say feathers? It says wings—
Tom:
I’m sorry—wings—I’m sorry. Wings—you’re right, but there they are with wings. All right? Now, what’s interesting is that in the New Testament with all the manifestations of angels, you never hear about wings, you never hear about feathers and we have many manifestations. So now what is the point of this? A man has a church, there are feathers flying down every which way—what does that mean?
Dave:
Tom, as I said, we are trying to have some physical evidence for a spiritual reality. That an angel would leave a feather—what does that mean? Is that going to be the basis of my faith now? And the man says that even though an analysis may show these are chicken feathers—he didn’t use those terms but how are you going to find out whether it was really an angelic feather? Well they will show that those feathers, I can guarantee you, belong to some fowl that lives on this earth. The Bible says that He makes His angels spirits. Flames of fire, ministering spirits to minister to those that shall be heirs of salvation. It tells us to not even try to look into who the angels are, what they may be doing and so forth. That is not our job. Our trust is in God and our faith is not in some feathers. Our faith is in the Word. That is why we call this Search the Scriptures Daily. Our faith is in the Word of God not in some physical manifestation. When Jesus said “I am the Bread of Life,” is He a loaf of bread? You know when He said I am the True Vine you are the branches, is He a grape vine and we are branches? No—so you have this sort of thing all through the Bible. So when it says He will cover you with His feathers and under His wing shalt thou trust, Jesus said, “how often would I have covered you—gathered you as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings and you would not.” Jesus doesn’t have wings. This is an allegorical statement.
Tom:
These are metaphors that people could relate to and identify. Dave the sad thing about this is that the very things that we’ve been talking about, evidence and faith—this man has, wittingly or unwittingly, has undermined.
Dave:
This is not the kind of evidence the Bible gives us. This is not the evidence upon which I would hang my eternal destiny and whether an angel appeared or not—what does that have to do with Jesus Christ being the Savior of sinners and man’s eternal destiny? So it is a way of side tracking people from what is really important.
Gary: You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come in this revisit to our 2000 series, “Religion in the News,” plus answers to your questions in “Contending for the Faith,” and in “Understanding the Scriptures,” Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials, including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at http://www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #1809, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from Ecumenical News International. A South African archbishop has suggested that a Libation of Blood, a ritual pouring as a symbolic sacrifice honoring the ancestors of black Africans should be incorporated into local Catholic liturgies such as the mass. Archbishop Buti Tlhagale of Bloemfontein said recently, sacrifice to the ancestors continues to be a very common practice among Africans. The slaughtering of an animal, a cow or sheep takes place wherever there is a funeral or marriage feast, or in times of illness, unemployment, family feuds or the birth of a child.
Tom:
Dave, as a former Catholic, I think this is pushing it a little bit. I’m sure there are, particularly traditional Catholics out there who would just go crazy over something like that. But the Archbishop, he makes a point in the article, I’ll pick up on that. He said the practice should be considered in the context of enculturation according to which local indigenous culture and values are a means of presenting, reformulating and living the Christian faith, he suggested. Now Catholic, or otherwise this is not the Christian faith.
Dave:
Well, of course black Africans are making sacrifices to their ancestors. Of course they are still involved in ancestral worship, does that make it right? We’re supposed to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. We are supposed to deliver people from ancestral worship, from the false ideas. I mean, by this idea then, enculturation, you would accept anything that anybody does. Any witchdoctor, whether it’s in Africa, the South Pacific or in Scandinavia, people have had all kinds of pagan practices down through history, today in North America, North American witchcraft, Indian witchcraft, the medicine men and so forth. This is so much a part of their culture; you cannot separate it from their culture. Therefore, because it’s part of the culture, does that mean then we must incorporate it into Christianity? It doesn’t mean that Christianity is going to destroy culture, meaning some of the purely cultural customs, how you live you know, the houses you live in, the kind of clothes you wear, the tools you have, the way you do your farming. This is culture, but you can’t say because their religion is part of their culture, therefore we must not interfere with their religion. That doesn’t make sense at all because religion will take people to hell. Now, what we’re doing then, according to this Archbishop we are going to compromise Christianity. We’re going to confuse it. We’re going to mix the pagan practices in with Christianity. So, then what are we honoring here at the Mass? I’ve got a lot of problems with the Mass, first of all because it denies the sufficiency and the once for all sacrifice of Christ upon the cross. But it is being made even worse now because we are mixing pagan practices in with this. Tom, we were in Africa recently and this is a major problem there that evangelicals recognize. You’ve got people who come from America, maybe a Benny Hinn or someone else, well meaning and they have these huge crusades and people, supposedly, believe in Jesus, and you give the reports of the thousands or hundreds of thousands who got saved, and the next thing you know these people are back to their ancestor worship. They are back to the belief in the pagan deities that they had before. Have they become Christians? I don’t think that you can be a Christian and also a pagan at the same time. I don’t think you can believe in the true God and in false gods. And in fact, God says that in the very first commandment that He gives to the people of Israel. You shall have no other gods before me, I am God, and there is none else. And now we’re going to say well, but because they had these beliefs, it was part of their culture then we’re going to incorporate it with Christianity. That won’t go! It certainly doesn’t agree with “earnestly contending for THE faith once for all delivered.”
Tom:
Dave, there’s another point here. This bishop is black, he’s African, he grew up in this culture obviously, but now he has a Catholic world view, there are many things within Catholic ritual and liturgy that are consistent with pagan worship.
Dave:
They incorporate it wherever they go.
Tom:
Well, for example, ancestor worship, praying to the saints, praying to the dead, this is what ancestor worship for the Africans is. So I could see how this bishop would say, “Look, we can enculturate here, because we do have some common ideas. But these are not Biblical ideas, the Bible condemns as necromancy, communicating with the dead completely.
Dave:
Tom, it’s not just the bishop, the Pope when he visited West Africa he said to the voodoo priest, “You don’t have to give up anything to become Christians, and you worship ancestors, so do we.
Tom:
Well, they would say, venerate. What’s the fine line between those?
Dave:
You go to Haiti, they say Haiti is 85% Catholic, 110% voodoo, and every voodoo ceremony begins with prayers to the Catholic saints. You go to Rio de Janeiro on a holiday, and you will see the Catholics on their knees on the ground by the graves praying, not only to their dead ancestors, but to the saints as well. So, Catholicism has in fact incorporated, this is nothing new, it has incorporated the culture, the religion wherever it has gone, and that is not Biblical and it is destructive of the true faith.
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead in this revisit to our 2000 series: “Religion in the News,” plus answers to your questions in “Contending for the Faith.” And in “Understanding the Scriptures,” Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for program #1709, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Associated Press, Dateline: Corvallis, Oregon. “Former South African Archbishop Desmond Toto joined several prominent theologians yesterday to urge religious leaders to work together to find a new image of God for the 21st century. No religion can claim to have the whole truth about the mystery of faith, Toto said, the logic of faith will get through to even the dumbest of us. Tutu, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, spoke at a news conference before he addressed The God at 2000 Conference at Oregon State University. Toto ended the conference with an address that followed traditional Christian teachings, talking about a masculine, judgmental god more interested in individual sinners than the universe. He credited prayer with helping resolve apartheid in his native South Africa, and called on the faithful to pray for resolution of conflicts in places such as Northern Ireland and Kosovo. But Tutu also called on Christians to embrace other faiths. Author and theologian, Marcus Borg, who teaches at Oregon State invited Tutu and five of the world’s most influential religious scholars to talk about how the image of God has changed. Later Tutu headed to Seattle where he was scheduled to receive an honorary degree from Seattle University.
Tom:
Dave, here is an Episcopal Archbishop, well, retired, Emeritus, or however you want to describe him, but this man is an apostate. He is teaching a religion that has nothing to do with biblical Christianity, I mean, it’s an opposition to it.
Dave:
Well, not only that, Tom, you don’t even have to talk about being biblical for the moment, let’s just be rational, let’s be logical. If God exists, are we going to create Him? We’re going to sit around; we’re going to come up with a new image of God. What is the point of a new image of God if it doesn’t reflect God? We will know nothing about God unless He reveals it to us.
Tom:
Nothing to do with truth.
Dave:
No, of course He has revealed himself, his power from the universe and we know his wisdom and power, we know his justice from our conscience. But other than that, God must speak to man, we must have a revelation from God and the Bible is that revelation and we can prove it. So what’s the point of these guys sitting around and talking about God and we’re going to come up with a new image of God that’s going to suit modern man in the 20th century? I’m sorry, I lose patience, it doesn’t make sense, and any atheist could tell you that. Okay. Now then he talks about conflict we’ve got religious conflicts here and there. How are we going to resolve these conflicts? The problem is they’ve got different gods. If there was a one true God, and everyone was obedient to him there wouldn’t be conflicts. So the very conflicts that he says he’s trying to solve are caused by the very thing that he recommends, that is, everybody coming up with their own idea about God. I’ve got my god, and he tells me to zap you and you’ve got your god and he tells you to take over my territory or whatever it is. Look, if God has not revealed himself to man, and he has not done it in a way that we could know for sure that he did, and we can prove it, and it is understandable to every ordinary person, we’ve got to look to some religious leader to tell us who God is and what he has to say, then Tom, forget it! There is no hope in all these discussions and conferences. I’m sorry; he’s a bright guy—
Tom:
He’s a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
Dave:
They are wasting their time and they are wasting our time.
Tom:
They are deluding us, Dave. You know here, after all is said and done; we have a god, or numerous gods that they are making up as they go along. But then he credits prayer with helping resolve problems. Prayer to what? To whom, to his imagination?
Dave:
Prayer to which god? Well, we’ve got a new image of god now; let’s pray to a new image of god. Tom, I’m sorry, it doesn’t make any sense, and yet this is a tragedy! We have pastors in pulpits who believe this. We have so-called theologians believing theologians, you’ve got the Jesus Seminar for example, and they talk about reinventing Christianity. We didn’t invent it, we can’t reinvent it! If Christianity is not true, if Jesus Christ is not who he claimed to be, and the Bible is not the Word of God, then we have nothing! I mean, it’s your opinion against mine. Opinions change, we are even going to have a new image for the 20th century. What is the point? If this is what God is, I would be an atheist. If this is what religion is, forget it! I don’t want to go to church; I don’t want to hear this nonsense. You might as well be a politician and come up with your plan. Well, we’re coming up with our god, and then our god has to go along with our plans and he’s going to answer our prayers instead of man bowing to God’s will. So we’re back in the Garden of Eden where Satan said, “You can be one of the gods. And indeed, that’s the problem. We’ve got about 6 billion little gods running around this world, each one trying to rule over his own little empire, in conflict with one another, making up their own ideas of God, if they even acknowledge some supreme being. And the supreme being, they don’t want him to be supreme, they want him to be a cosmic bellhop, and when they pray he will give them what they want, and there is no hope for this world until we all abdicate the thrones of our lives and come under a willing submission to the One true God. And if He can’t reveal himself to us—well, I guess I’ve said it again and again, I’m sorry, I can’t understand, Tom, why rational people accept this sort of thing!
Tom:
Dave, you know, sometimes when you read through the Old Testament you read about all different forms of idolatry, and we’re looking back at that and we’re thinking, it could never happen here, we would never stoop to that. Bishop Tutu, other religious leaders, they are leading us into idolatry of the mind, which maybe is far worse.
Dave:
Exactly.
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come in this revisit to our 2000 series: “Religion in the News,” plus answers to your questions in “Contending for the Faith.” And in “Understanding the Scriptures,” Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 800-937-6638, that’s 800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for program #1609, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the New York Times News Service, Dateline: Zdanovo, Russia. There is trouble in the one room matchbox home of Anatoly Matuzov and his wife Yakatarina, two grizzled, middle-aged residents of this mud road farming village. Like many families in trouble, they have summoned a priest. Unlike many families in trouble, they have also laid in 13 half-liter bottles of vodka. By the time the priest is gone 7 or 8 hours hence, the vodka will be too. Let outsiders snicker and make cracks about appealing to a higher power, in Beriadia, a region of southern Siberia that is an outpost of the mystical Mongol religion called Shamanism, vodka is quite literally “holy water” sprinkled, dabbed and most of all, drunk as an integral part of religious rites. And the vodka carries a kick. After 90 minutes of prayer and libation, neither the Matuzovs nor other relatives at the ceremony seem to be troubled at all. You drop, you pray, you talk to God said Alexe Spasov, one of two shamans who minister to a cluster of villages along the shore of the huge Bratz Reservoir, a few hundred miles north of Mongolia. According to the Beriad tradition, I’m here to bring some moral calmness. Many people might regard shamanism as the “John Denver” of religions: a 1960s earth mother kind of faith, with a heavy dose of channeling and an occasional side of psychedelic mushrooms. In much of the world, various forms of Shamanism are found on most continents. It is a complex religion. Mongol Shamanism dictates that humans have at least three souls, two of which reincarnate and that animals have two reincarnating souls that must not be offended, lest the animals desert the humans’ hunting grounds. Reverence for the earth is a tenet of the religion. Mongolian shamans talk to many gods. Among others, 100 upper ones led by the Father Heaven and Mother Earth; 13 divinities bound to earth and fire and a host of local spirits that stand guard over holy sites like mountains and rivers. A shaman’s role in this order is to mediate between the spiritual world and mankind.
Tom:
Now Dave the vodka produces an altered state which facilitates contact with spirit entities. I mean we’ve said before, shamanism the world over it is the same idea however you can contact spirit entities, whatever device it takes, that’s the heart of it.
Dave:
So here we have another proof for the fact that matter is not all there is. There really are spirit entities out there. We do talk about that in the book as well. And they do communicate and we can prove that because the communication, I mean I’ve interviewed people around the world who have had no contact with one another, but they come out with the same messages from these entities and they conform to Satan’s four lies that he introduced to Eve in the Garden of Eden. So we know that they do exist and we know pretty well who they are because of what they say, but here we’re kind of back to what we were talking about—I mean what evidence do they have for this? That’s what this book is about: An Urgent Call to a Serious Faith. What evidence do they have for this hierarchy of gods? Father Heaven and Mother Earth and the hundreds of deities and all this thing that they are going through, their ritual and so forth—what is the basis for that?
Tom:
Well, some of it’s pragmatism. In other words, something seemed to work—you are getting information from, you know in an altered state of consciousness, whether its on vodka, or sacred mushroom or whatever, but they get—it’s like they are led into it—it’s entrapment basically.
Dave:
Well, unfortunately the Bible warns that there are deceiving spirits out there and that men will heed them. They bring the lie—seducing spirits the Bible calls them that bring the doctrines of devils and these are doctrines of devils. But the point I’m trying to make is—what—just give me a solid basis for this. Why do you believe this, I would say to the shamans? They’ve been led into this; this is something that they’ve done. You say it works…sometimes it seems to work. The information they get isn’t necessarily true. Generally it’s not, but sometimes it turns out to be. But here they are putting their trust in some spirits out there that they think they are communicating with and in order to communicate with them, you have to drink vodka. You have to get into a state of consciousness where you’ve really lost touch with your own rational faculties and with the physical universe around you and you have no basis for believing. How can you verify what’s going on? But, Tom it’s not just up in Mongolia…
Tom:
Mongolia, Siberia, right…
Dave:
It is all over this world. There are people consulting a Ouija Board, or Tarot cards, or they consult a medium in a séance or they just trust the pastor because he sounds convincing. And then you’ve got an awful lot of pastors these days who don’t even believe in God. They don’t believe anything and it’s just kind of a business for them and they’re involved in just sort of salving people’s consciouses and calming people down. You’ve got the death and dying movement, where what do they do? These dear people are dying and what is their purpose? Not to tell them where they are going. Not to tell them about salvation, not to warn them of the possibility of judgment, but just to say that everything is going to be okay, let’s be positive about this and so forth, so this article that you read is just symptomatic of so much of what’s going on out there.
Tom:
And Dave our concern is well—why would we even pick out an article like this? Because it seems a little bizarre, but when you break it down, these are the same things that in a sense, are going on in the church. We have subjectivity, we have the contemplative movement where you are trying to experience God, or go through some kind of ritual and have God speak to you or commune with spirits and so on. This is our hearts’ concern. This is why we have this program—search the Scriptures daily—because if it’s not according to God’s Word, then it’s not His way. And if it’s not His way, we are into strong delusion.
Dave:
And the only reason you say that Tom, is because we can prove the Bible is God’s Word.
Tom:
Amen.
