religion in the news
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith. And in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of material, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at PO Box 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3908, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, out weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This story is from the SNS News Service, Dateline Israel: “President Clinton stated by experiencing hunger during Ramadan, the followers of Muhammad learned true compassion for the poor of the world who go hungry every day. By reflecting on God’s teachings in the Qu’ran they learned humility and the beauty of forgiveness, and by the example of devotion and self discipline during Ramadan, Muslims remind us all that our true strength is derived, not from food and drink, but in closeness to God. As the crescent moon marks the beginning of Ramadan again this year, Hillary and I extend our best wishes for a holy and memorable observance.”
Tom:
Now Dave, we’ve addressed our former presidents, we addressed Jimmy Carter, but one of the things that I am finding, and we’ve got another news alert that I am going to read in a minute, or that we are going to go to in a minute, but the theology of our presidents and former presidents lacks quite a bit here.
Dave:
And I’m not sure it’d theology, but it is politics. I don’t think he cares what they believe, but it’s to suggest that they are learning to how the poor go without food by their fasting during Ramadan. They don’t eat during the day but they feast at night, that’s hardly fasting. And that they are learning compassion, you know, from the Qu’ran, well the god of the Qu’ran says, pursue the infidels wherever they are and kill them! Whether Clinton is speaking from ignorance is hard to imagine that he could be that ignorant.
Tom:
Well, the implication here is, by reflecting on God’s teachings in the Qu’ran—
Dave:
—This is not the God of the Bible—
Tom:
Correct.
Dave:
Allah is the moon god; Allah is the chief idol in the pagan temple, the Kaba. It clearly says in the Qu’ran, Allah is not a father and he has no son, in fact he had three daughters. Allah hates the Jews. This is not the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Allah, in the Qu’ran is very capricious, you never know whether he is going to forgive you or not, and really, the only way to get into paradise is to die in jihad, holy war, against the infidels, when you are trying to kill them, you know. And Allah’s gospel it’s spread by the sword, it was spread by the sword and still is. So for our president to be honoring the Muslims as though their god is the God of the Bible, and as though they really fast during Ramadan, as though learn compassion from the Qu’ran, I mean that’s just totally false. So it’s not even twisted theology, I think it’s politics and I thing it’s a shame that we would deny truth for politics, but it’s done all the time. We’ve never heard about the Islamic curtain; we’ve heard a lot about the Iron Curtain. But it happened that the Muslims, the Arabs have the oil. So we don’t talk about their horrible abuse of civil rights, you have to be a Muslim to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia. It’s a death penalty officially for a Saudi Arabian, a Muslim to convert to any other religion. Why don’t we talk about that, why doesn’t the government come down and express their concern about it? No, it’s politics, and they’ve got the oil, so it’s sad.
Tom:
Yeah, again, we have information that’s being communicated that it’s not true. But not to take sides here, we have a Democrat in President Clinton. But former President George Bush, let me read this to you: Sun Yung Moon launched a new Spanish language newspaper for the whole of Latin America this weekend with the backing of guest George Bush, who as guest speaker at the Buenos Aires banquet praised Moon’s respect for editorial independence. Bush then traveled with Moon to neighboring Uruguay to help him inaugurate a seminary in the capitol. (Montavidau), to trained 4200 young Japanese women to spread the word of his church of unification across Latin America. Bush was reported by the Washington Post to have been paid $100,000 for his Buenos Aires appearance.
Dave:
Well, that’s scandalous, this isn’t even politics, this is money. To praise him for his—what is it?
Tom:
His respect for editorial independence.
Dave:
That’s nonsense; he’s a cult leader, mind control. He has one purpose and that is to establish himself as the messiah of the whole world.
Tom:
As the lord of the second coming.
Dave:
Right, and he claims—
Tom:
A false Christ, isn’t it?
Dave:
Exactly. He claims that Jesus failed in His mission and that now he’s the one that’s going to do it. He is self deluded, and he deludes others that, you know, you’ve got to have the perfect marriage, he doesn’t have the perfect marriage, and so forth, and that he is going to form the perfect families. He marries, maybe a thousand or more couples at once, this is a cult, and that George Bush would help this cult—you know, George Bush who claims to be a Christian the last I heard, that he would help this cult leader establish himself in South America simply because he’s getting paid $100,000 for it. I mean, George Bush must know who Sun Yung Moon is; he must know what he’s doing. So it’s very disappointing that there would be that much lack of integrity and compromise with evil in order to earn $100,000.
Tom:
Right, you know, again, the sad thing here is, in the last few weeks we’ve mentioned former President Jimmy Carter, now President Clinton and former President George Bush. These men claim to be Christians, and they are influencing many even though they are not theologians, but they are influencing many with what they’re doing, and which has, you know, a religious connotation to it.
Dave:
Yeah, so Tom, the reason why we mention these things is to alert people. We’ve got to think for ourselves, don’t just go along with what everybody says or does, but we are to earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. And George Bush, in promoting Sun Yung Moon, he’s promoting a false faith, a false gospel, a false messiah. And Jimmy Carter, of course, he claimed that the Mormons are Christians. We dealt with that so we can’t go back there. Their god is a man who is redeemed by another Jesus on another planet, you know, and has a physical body and so forth. And now what Clinton has said about the Muslims, he and Hillary do this every year at Ramadan time. It’s just unconscionable, it’s for political reasons, and it’s tragic! But this is the example that is being set for our youth, and of course a lot of it is because of the schools we have where you can’t even name God, you know, and God has been put our of our society, out of our schools, and so forth. So it’s a tragedy but we want to warn people and keep them alert to what is happening.
Gary:
You are listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3808, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD; ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s feature item is from the Associated Press dated April 16, 1997: American Indian troops who eat peyote and hallucinate during religious ceremonies can follow their faith while on active duty under new guidelines adopted by the Armed Forces. If they are using peyote in their religious practice, it’s a sacrament not a drug, just as sacramental wine is not considered a drug, Air Force Major Monica Elloesio, a Pentagon spokeswoman said Tuesday. The new peyote policy applies to any of the 9,262 American Indians in the service. That’s .06% of the military population who use the drug to follow their faith. This opens some doors for our church and it marks the first sanctioned use of a hallucinogen by members of the Armed Forces, said Frank Dayish, president of the Native American Church of North America. The policy change stems from the 1994 American Indian Religious Freedom Act which allows Indians to use peyote as a religious sacrament. In 1996, the guidelines became part of US code and the Defense Department began rewriting guidelines. The new guidelines say this: American Indians who wish to enlist can answer no when asked if they have ever used drugs. Peyote may only be used by enrolled members of Indian tribes. Peyote may not be used, possessed or brought aboard military vehicles, vessels, aircraft or military installations without permission of the installation commander. Military personnel must notify their commanders of use upon return to duty. Additional limitations may be imposed overseas to comply with foreign laws. Chaplain Captain Mel Ferguson, Executive Director of the Armed Forces Chaplains Board, said he’s giving chaplains a verbal go-ahead to let Indians use peyote in religious services while the guidelines are being finalized. When people are allowed to practice their faith and nourish the spiritual dimensions of their lives, that promotes and enhances military readiness, said Ferguson. Peyote is a small cactus with psychedelic properties that grows naturally in southern Texas. While it is illegal for most people, federal law permits use by the 250,000 Native American church members in 20 states. The theology center on the belief that peyote brings peace of mind, helps people think good thoughts and heals illnesses if one sincerely believes and concentrates. Peyote is usually eaten but can be smoked. It causes sweating, heightened attention, wakefulness and sometimes but not always, hallucinatory visions. Leonardo Mercado, who founded the Peyote Foundation in Karney, Arizona, a year ago, said the changes reaffirmed the sacred, important status peyote has in individuals lives. If I was having somebody to defend me here at home, I’d rather have them on peyote than alcohol he said.
Dave:
Well, that’s very interesting, Tom. Of course, it’s part of the whole delusion about indigenous people and native religions. They can be brought into the public schools but Christianity can’t because Christianity is religion and this is culture, although their culture is their religion. The Bible, New Testament, comes down very hard on something called sorcery.
Tom:
Right—pharmacia.
Dave:
Right, it’s a Greek word, pharmacia. And it indicates that it would be revived in the last days and the world would refuse to repent of it. So, here we have the spread of pharmacia. LSD, of course, was taken illicitly and some of the salosamon and some of the other drugs were taken illicitly. But now we have the licensing, I mean, peyote, which catapults you into a spirit dimension where you meet spirits, spirit guides, spirit beings, spirit saviors, spirit destroyers, even. But that’s okay—these are actually demons—but that’s okay because this is a religious ceremony and it’s part of Native American religiosity. Now, I guarantee you, if we had a LSD cult formed or some other drug cult formed and it got to be a big church, well, that would be a growing church, a lot of people—just think—you could take heroin legally now if you belonged to a heroin church. So, it doesn’t make sense but it shows some of the pressure that is being put upon, because of the guilt I presume, that we feel of having displaced the indigenous people, the First Nation People, they call themselves now. So now, we’re going to make special dispensation for them even though we know that this drug is harmful, even though we know that it is hallucinatory, nevertheless this is a sacrament of theirs. And, of course, to liken it to the wine taken in communion—I mean, what do you take—a little sip of wine that has what? eight percent alcohol.
Tom:
And mostly, it’s grape juice.
Dave:
To compare that with peyote it’s—but, here we go.
Tom:
Yes, but this is the occult invasion, isn’t it? This is what we are accepting more and more and this is really a sign of the last days.
Dave:
Well, drugs, that’s one doorway into the occult.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, in this revisit to our 2000 series, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending For The Faith. And in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call us at our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3708, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to the year 2000. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
In this segment, we report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This provides a sometimes disturbing evaluation of the state of today’s Christianity. This item is from USA Today, dated November 1996. “Kabalah is the rage in Tinsel town. It’s not a new beauty aid or trendy club, it’s the kind of thing Jews don’t talk about,” TV’s Rosanne noted. It’s something you’re told when you’re growing up that only Rabbis know about after 40 years of study. “I’m a Catholic shiksa (sp?),” actress Diane Ladd says, “but, I’m on a spiritual journey and I believe we can learn from all religions.” She was introduced to Kabalah by comedian Sandra Bernhart, who had been referred by her personal trainer. Ladd is so excited about Kabalah that she took daughter Lora Dern to an L.A. area Kabalah learning center. “These are the kinds of things you want to pass on to those you love.” She also clued in pal Connie Stevens. Jeff Goldblum took the basic course. Barry Diller and Dolly Parton attended a private class. Rosanne explains, “They say that the Bible is the ‘how’ and Kabalah is the ‘why’—it’s all about time and space. I hate to say this but I will,” says the comedian actress who is Jewish, “the Jews were lost for awhile, but now they’re on their way back. Kabalah is about connection between mind and body, astrology, Atlantis, reincarnation, and computers.”
Tom:
The Kabalah, Dave. Jewish mysticism. This is in our theme for this program and some down the line. The theme is occultism. Kabalah is occultism, isn’t it?
Dave:
Yeah. Maybe we need to define occultism, which we haven’t yet. The world of the occult is a secret world, non-physical, you have to be initiated into it in order to tap into this thing and it’s something that you can manipulate. You can learn the secrets of this. You can learn the formulas, you know, when the witch doctor slits the rooster’s throat and sprinkles the blood in a certain pattern it must be in—he mumbles a formula, then the gods have to come through. It’s called, in the opera Faust, Dr. Faust made a bargain, it’s called, “the magician’s bargain,” with Mephistopheles, the little demon. So basically, in exchange for power you get to be in control but you lose your soul. And now this is happening in the so-called Christian world as well. If you give in to the desire for power, you really sell your soul, because God is not going to play that game, the real God. So, you get in touch with the god of this world who will play that game, who will pretend to give you power. So, Kabalah works by formulas, works by numbers and signs and mystical workings. This is not the straight forward method of the true God.
Tom:
Well, it’s not the Bible. It’s based on the Torah but it’s actually secret meanings, esoteric understandings of what—
Dave:
Right. But the way we can discern, because we need to talk about discernment, what’s wrong with this? Well, God doesn’t work that way. He is open and straight forward. Jesus said, I don’t say anything in secret—this is not a secret technique. If you continue in my Word, then you are my disciples and you will know the truth—the truth will set you free.
But these are secrets and there are techniques involved. As soon as you have a technique for getting in touch with the spirit world where you can make it happen, this is what the Kabalah teaches. These are methods, mysteries and when you learn the secret then you can make things happen in your life and in the lives of others. As soon as you are into that, that’s not God, that is the god of this world.
Tom:
Right. And also, you’re at a loss here because it’s not God’s objective Word. You’re having to buy into some subjective interpretation that someone has with no recourse, no way to discern whether it’s true or not.
Dave:
It’s a secret that they pass on—well,
Tom:
But there’s an appeal in that isn’t there? I mean, here you have the Hollywood, you know, the Hollywood group—they’re excited about it—it’s something new, something novel, something that has power.
Dave:
We all want to belong to an exclusive club. It makes us a little bit better than the others.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials, including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638. That’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3608, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events comments being covered by the media. This week’s item is from World Net Daily, August 25, 2008, with a headline: Condi pulls a Solomon, Split Jerusalem in Two, the following are excerpts: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has been pressing Israel to sign a document by the end of the year that would divide Jerusalem by offering the Palestinians a state in Israel’s Capitol City as well as in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, according to top diplomatic sources involved in the talks. The Israeli team led by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, has been negotiating the division of Jerusalem despite claims to the contrary, but would rather conclude an agreement on paper by the end of the year that would give the Palestinians a state in the West Bank, Gaza and some Israeli territory leaving conclusions on Jerusalem for a later date, the informed diplomatic sources told WND. Rice, the sources said, has asked the Israeli leaders to bend to what the US refers to as a compromise position, concluding an Israeli/Palestinian agreement by the end of the year that guarantees sections of Jerusalem to the Palestinians. But Israel would not be required to withdraw from Jerusalem for period of 1 to 5 years. Any Israeli/Palestinian paper agreement is to finalize a process that began at last November’s US-backed Annapolis Conference which seeks to create a Palestinian state, at least on paper, before Bush leaves office. One Palestinian negotiator, speaking to WND, described as “crazy” the intensity and frequency of Israeli/Palestinian talks. The negotiator said Jerusalem is being discussed by both sides and that the two teams are closer than ever on coming to an agreement on the status of the city.
Tom:
Dave, this does not bode well, I don’t believe.
Dave:
Well, Tom, obviously the Palestinians, so called, and I’m just going to recommend again, everybody out there needs to read, Judgment Day. We explain it so thoroughly. Palestinians? We’re a descendant from the original Palestinians? Go back and read Genesis chapter 12. God gave a land to Abraham and his descendants. Palestine? There is no such place! He brought them to Canaan, and God clearly says it many times: “The land of Canaan, all the way from the River of Egypt unto the great River Euphrates, that I am giving to you and to your seed!” All right, Palestinians? Well, we’re descended from the original Palestinians? Well, Ishmael’s mother was Egyptian, his father was Chaldean, so you’ve got an Egyptian mother and a Chaldean father, and when they arrive in a land called Canaan, there’s not a Palestinian in sight, it’s filled with Canaanites. This is a total fraud, but now God says, The land is mine! Leviticus chapter 25, and verse 23 I think, I don’t have my Bible right here in front of me, The land is mine, it’s not to be sold, it’s not to be traded. And Israel has been under pressure from the United States, Condoleezza Rice does not even believe that Israel has the right to be there, she’s of what we call Replacement Theology, this is what she believes. Israel has been replaced by the church, has no right to be over there, and so forth. But anyway, this will bring the wrath of God. And the tragedy is that Israel—well, most of them don’t believe this anyway, they don’t believe that this land belongs to them, that God really promised it to them. But they are giving this to a—well, Tom, I get really angry, and I’ll try to calm down here. What is the point? How many times have the so-called Palestinians made a promise, signed a document, Arafat signed so many documents, they weren’t worth the ink. And his signature—lies, lies, they have and they have said it very clearly, they have one intention and that is to destroy Israel! Peace for us, I’m quoting Arafat, and I am quoting so many documents, Peace for us is the destruction of Israel! They believe that every square foot of that land belongs to them, that Allah has promised it to them. And now So long as Israel has control of one square meter of that land, it is an affront to Islam. It says Islam is a false religion; Allah is a false god; Mohammad is a false prophet— They must destroy Israel, it’s that simple! And you’re going to sign more papers trying to divide this up in violation of what God has said, and in violation of common sense, and in the face of the hundreds, thousands of times the so-called Palestinians have said—it’s right in the Palestinian charter, we have one purpose and that is, we will destroy Israel. And let’s take it a step further, Muhammad said: The last day will not come until the Muslims confront the Jews and the Muslims destroy them—every Jew on this earth must be destroyed before any Muslim can be resurrected from the grave, it’s that simple, it’s in their documents. Now what are we negotiating about, and signing new documents about? It’s going to bring the wrath of God.
Tom:
And Dave, to think that this developed out of the conference at Annapolis where the Naval Academy is, that Bush is pushing this before he leaves office. That’s sad, that’s tragic.
Dave:
Well, Bush wants to leave a big accomplishment: Look, he brought peace! Like Clinton brought peace, like Carter brought peace, so-called. He wants to leave this as his legacy, and he claims to be a Christian! Does he have Christian advisors? Does he know what the Bible says? The problem is, Tom, we don’t go by that ancient book anymore, I mean, that’s way back there. You had better know that the Bible is true, from Genesis to Revelation, when God says it, He means it, and the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind, and God will have the last say. But Bush is not helping this out by his Road Map to Peace. It’s a tragedy! If he would only believe God, if he would only believe the Bible, then he would have God on his side, but then unfortunately, the Israeli’s don’t even believe God.
Tom:
Right.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will resume their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials, including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3508, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD; ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and comments being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Home School Legal Defense Association website, August 11, 2008, with a headline: “A Great Victory For California Home Schoolers,” the following are excerpts: In an unanimous decision the California Court of Appeal for the 2nd Appellate District ruled that California statutes permit home schooling as a species of private school education. Today’s decision stands in stark contrast to the opinion the same three-judge panel issued in February which would have made California the only state in the union to outlaw home education had it remained in effect. It is unusual for an appellate court to grant a petition for a rehearing as this court did in March, said H. S. L. D. A chairman Mike Ferris, but it is truly remarkable for a court to completely reverse its own earlier opinion. We thank you for your prayers and give God the glory for this great victory. When the court vacated its earlier decision on March 25, 2008, it invited interested organizations to file friend of the court briefs. I have never seen such an impressive array of people and organizations coming to the defense of home schooling, said Ferris, who was one of the attorneys who argued the case on rehearing along with Alliance Defense Fund attorney Jeff Schaffer. Numerous other private organizations came to the defense of home education as did California’s governor, attorney general and superintendent of public instruction.
Tom:
Dave, this is an exciting piece of news, and it’s great that we can, in our news alerts, come up with some good news, but the battle goes on. I saw the other day that California, whether it was one of the California college systems, whether it’s Cal State, I’m not sure which one, but they are making it a condition for acceptance, or they are rejecting home schoolers because of their beliefs. They are saying that they are not going to be able to handle the college program. Now this is absurd. You just look at the statistics; home schoolers have been able to outshine many of those from public education by leaps and bounds, so that’s a problem. The other thing—again it’s California. You and I lived there, you were born in California, so we love the state but some of the things that are going on there are just shocking. They have a—well, this particular victory where the courts reversed themselves, and when a court takes over, you never know what to expect. Proposition 8 is going to appear in the November ballot in California, and that’s because a court, the Supreme Court decided that gay marriage was a constitutional right for gays and lesbians, for homosexuals and lesbians. So now they are going to take it back to the people, and I’m hopeful that there will be another victory here.
Dave:
Well, Tom, this is remarkable, of course, for a court to reverse itself. What is behind this? What are they going to get? If they cannot be home schooled and they complain about and they come out with wrong beliefs—see, this is atheistically controlled, sadly. I mean, the whole space program is atheistically controlled. I was reading an article in U.S. News and World Report about the cutting edge of science. Wait a minute, I get angry, and I shouldn’t get angry, but I do. Science? Just follow that word through that article; they are talking about atheistic science. They are talking about a science that will not allow any place for God, but oh this is science, this is U.S. News and World Report. I have a lot of respect for them in many ways but this is what is being presented to the public, being presented in our schools, in our universities and so forth. Science? Oh, science says—well science, no scientist believes in creation and so forth. Not true! I don’t know whether we have ever mentioned it on this program, Tom, and I can’t give the web site, but anybody could get it by googling, but there is a website where those scientists, you’ve got to be a scientist to sign up on this, sign your name, and they are signing up by the hundreds saying that we reject evolution, it is not scientifically valid. We’ve been deceiving the public long enough. But the impression you get—oh, science says—yeah, of course, and just follow that article—I don’t know whether you saw it, Tom, but follow it and see. What does science say? Well, this is science, this is science, always it’s atheistic.
Tom:
Well, its scientism, which is a belief system, it has nothing to do with science. We believe in science, okay, the laws of science and so on. This is a belief system, this is not true, it’s not valid.
Dave:
You have to take it by faith, it is a religion, Tom, and it’s being forced upon us.
Tom:
And Dave, it’s amazing, you know, you talk about those in charge, but the courts, it’s just staggering what the court can do. As I mentioned, California, its coming right up, Proposition 22, said that marriage is between a man and a woman, okay? The courts overturned that, said it’s not constitutional, that you are denying the rights to the specialized group, okay? So now, the only way to get it back, aright to right the ship is through this vote that’s coming up in November.
Dave:
Well, Tom, it’s not marriage, and we won’t go into all of that, it is anti-God, anti-Biblical, forbidden, God created man, Adam and Eve—this was marriage, He presided over the first marriage. And then suddenly, after thousands of years what has always been known as the crime against nature? A perversion that suddenly we are being forced to accept this as normal—marriage between man and man, woman and woman? No, it’s totally against nature, it’s against common sense, it’s against history, and Tom, this is what is being forced upon us. Some of the people are going to rise up and vote it out, we hope!
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call us at our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3408, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now, Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The New York Times, July 11, 2008, with the headline: “Serenity Prayers Stirs Up Doubt, Who Wrote It?” The following are excerpts: Generations of recovering alcoholics, soldiers, weary parents, exploited workers, and just about anybody feeling beaten down by life, have found solace in a short prayer that begins: “God grand me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.” Now the serenity prayer is about to endure a controversy over its authorship that is likely to be anything but serene. For more than 70 years the composer of the prayer was thought to be the Protestant theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, one of Christianity’s towering figures. Niebuhr who died in 1971, said he was quite sure he had written it, and his wife, Ursula, also a prominent theologian, dated its composition to the early 1940’s. His daughter Elizabeth Sifton, wrote a book about the prayer in 2003, in which she described her father first using it in 1943, in an ordinary Sunday service at a church in the bucolic Massachusetts town of Heath, where the Niebuhr family spent summers. Now, a law librarian at Yale, using new data basis of archival documents has found newspaper clippings and the book from as far back as 1936 that quote close versions of the prayer. Some refer to the prayer as if it were a Proverb, while others appear to claim it as their own poetry. None attribute the prayer to a particular source and they never mention Reinhold Niebuhr.
Tom:
Dave, yeah, it’s a bit of controversy here but I think there’s more controversy to this prayer than just who is the author. It’s certainly the prayer the article mentions of Alcoholics Anonymous, every meeting starts off with that prayer. Celebrate Recovery, which is Rick Warren’s program at Saddleback for 12-steps. It’s a 12-Steps program, and I participated in the training of that, and the small group I was in, they started the small group off with the serenity prayer.
Dave:
This was at Rick Warren’s church, under his sponsorship?
Tom:
Right, and Celebrate Recovery is huge, I mean, it’s all over, and Rick even worked out a deal with Prison Fellowship, they are now using Celebrate Recovery. The Bible that they use is the Life Recovery Bible, which is a commentary by psychologists, those who have been involved in AA, and 12-Steps. And there are 30 devotionals here, sections that have the serenity prayer as sort of a masthead to each section. So, this is big. Now the questions is, is this prayer biblical? “God grand me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.” It goes on, “Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time, accepting hardships as the pathway to peace, taking as he did this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it, trusting that he will make all things right if I surrender to his will, that I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with him forever in the next. Amen.”
Dave:
Tom, there are some things about that prayer you can’t criticize, but it’s a do it yourself kit. That means, this to do this, and to do that, and to do that. Well granted, and they are asking God for the power to do this. But still, it’s not Christ in me. “It’s no more I but Christ…” and we just quoted Galatians 2:20. That’s not what this is about. God, I want to overcome this habit, now grant me—and so forth, and the wisdom to know the difference, et cetera. I’m sure most people would think wow! that’s a very wise prayer. And whoever came up with this probably thought so as well. But that’s not the gospel, and that’s not the crucified life—“I’m crucified with Christ, non the less I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me.” That’s not Christ living in me. God grant me to do this and to do that and to do that.
Tom:
Dave, this relates to what we talked about earlier in our first segment. This is, as you said, this is self helps, this is a deism kind of thing. We’re going to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps, we’re going to, again, “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.” This seems to be the way that is right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Dave:
“Accept the things I cannot change” that sounds mighty good, but what about God changing things? It’s all me, I, my, me, and if I can’t do it, God, well then help me to accept it. No, that’s not what the crucified life is about. “It is no more I but Christ who lives in me…”—there’s nothing about that in this prayer. Now this prayer is not for Christians, it’s for those who are wanting to pick themselves up by their bootstraps.
Tom:
Yeah, this is a works condition and situation. Dave, it’s also interesting that this is what AA is about, Alcoholics Anonymous, this is what 12-Steps, this is why they use it over and over and over again because it reflects the 12-steps approach, which is not only not biblical—well, we’ve talked about Bill Wilson who really developed the 12 steps, not biblical by any means, and according to the AA documents, he got this idea from spirit entities. He was very much into spiritism and communing with spirit entities.
Dave:
Yeah, you’re not making that up. This is not from some critic, this is from the documents, AA documents themselves, who give you the history and acknowledge where this came from. Tom, we’ve been accused of accusing people, of criticizing people, so we’ve been criticized for criticizing. You know, it’s not that we haven’t tried, we’ve brought this to the attention of Rick Warren for example. I sent him all this documentation, where Bill Wilson got this from, all the relationship and Rick, here it is. This is what you’re doing and this is what you’re saying: Somehow, it comes from the Beatitudes. It isn’t true and you are leading people astray, and you say it’s not AA based, and it is AA based. Tom, you went through Celebrate Recovery.
Tom:
Right, I was trained through the program.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will resume their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this program on compact disk, ask for Program #3308, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD; ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now, Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The New York Times, July 21, 2008, with a headline: “McCain and Obama Agree to Attend Mega-Church Forum” The following are excerpts: It has taken a man of God, perhaps, to do what nobody else has been able to do since the general election season began: get Barack Obama and John McCain together on the same stage before their party conventions later this summer. Rick Warren, the author of the best selling book, The Purpose Driven Life said he had called each man personally to invite him to his event, which will focus on how they make decisions, and on some of Mr. Warren’s main areas of focus, like AIDS, poverty and the environment. Mr. Warren’s event will have as a co-sponsor, Faith in Public Life, the multi-denominational religious group that held a compassion forum at Messiah College in April, featuring Mr. Obama and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. Mr. Warren said he would devise his questions with input from the Muslim, Jewish and Christian leaders associated with the group.
Tom:
Dave, what could be wrong with that? I mean, you have a pastor who certainly no other pastor, probably in the country, in the world could have two presidential candidates comes to their church to speak to their congregation. But what might be wrong with that?
Dave:
Well, Tom, what could be wrong with it? This is the…I don’t know…is this the proper event for a church, is it to show people which side to vote on? But we’ve got a sponsor here, Tom that this is disturbing to me, but you know more about them than I do.
Tom:
Well, Dave, you know, it was a leading question for you, but there are some great concerns that we have, which is why we are addressing this story. First of all, as people know, Rick Warren’s agenda is what he calls his P.E.A.C.E. plan.
Dave:
Right.
Tom:
And he’s been involved for almost 4 years now in trying to solve many of the world’s problems, poverty, disease, climate; he’s now a part of the Christian group that’s trying to deal with global warming.
Dave:
Can I just interject here, Tom? All winter long I was trying to get friends to organize and plead with Al Gore: Please call off this global warming, it is freezing us to death! We’ve had the coldest winter, and now we’ve got the coolest summer. I’m thankful for his global warming now!
Tom:
Yeah. Well, Dave, that’s one small part of it, and we know that Mr. Warren is sincere about the issues of solving the world’s problems. And of course he learned from Peter Druker, who he calls his mentor, who Druker, a social scientist, said that the world’s problems can’t be solved by governments, it can’t be solved by corporations, but it can be solved by churches because there is a church on every corner—there’s a place of worship in every village. And if we can bring all the religions of the world to cooperate, then we can solve these issues. Dave, that’s the social gospel, it’s not new to Christianity. In this country, the 1800’s, the turn of the century, early 1900’s, this was a promotion by Christians to show that we are involved, that we want to get involved, and so on. But what’s the problem with that?
Dave:
Well, now we’re back to, “…hath God said?” Because how do you get all these different religions? It’s not just denomination actually, but Rick will work with anybody, he’ll work with the Muslims, because they’re part of people of faith, you see, they have a faith. Anybody that has a so-called faith, we’ll get them all together, but they have different ideas of this. But we can kind of scrap those and set those aside, and now we will all work together on this very important project.
Tom:
Well, Faith in Public Life, that’s the name of the organization that is co-sponsoring Obama and McCain at Saddleback Church.
Dave:
Tell me about their faith.
Tom:
Well, the board president, a woman named Meg Riley; she’s a Unitarian Universalist minister. Now prior to taking this position, she headed up the Denominations Advocacy Office of Gay, Lesbian and Bi-sexual Concerns. Now if you go down the list of the board of directors you find mainly women, certainly the men you won’t find a biblical Christian among them. Their ideas, their concepts, their theology is anti-biblical to the max. So this is a co-sponsor now at Saddleback Church with Rick Warren presenting this social gospel.
Dave:
So how does Rick justify this? Why would he have this co-sponsored, does he not know who they are?
Tom:
Well, you’ve said before that you believe that Rick is sincere, but Dave, I believe there’s a simple problem here. The social gospe--the best it can do is deal with symptoms, right? The symptoms, I mean, poverty, disease and all these things are symptoms of what? The sinful nature of man.
Dave:
Well, Tom, the problem is the symptoms are about this earth, they are mainly physical, these are all physical things. There is no truth in this, and there’s no way that you’re going to solve the problems of the world without changing the heart of man.
Tom:
Right. Now see, Rick claims that this is his first priority, I can quote you. He says, “It’s to proclaim the gospel truth of salvation in Jesus Christ.” Now how does that work when he’s got this follow-up inner-faith meeting with 30 Christians, Jewish and Muslim leaders? Is he going to present Christ as the way, the truth and the life?
Dave:
Absolutely not.
Tom:
It would torpedo his agenda, the program.
Dave:
Right, so you cannot possibly carry on his P.E.A.C.E. program to solve poverty and disease, and so forth all over the world, bringing all of these people together who have different beliefs. Oh they are people of faith, they have some kind of a faith, but you cannot possibly do it, it’s doomed from the very beginning.
Tom:
Dave, it reminds me of the words of Jesus. Now I want to paraphrase this, so I am paraphrasing, but look at it this way. What shall it profit people of faith if they solve all the problems of the world, yet lose their own souls!
Dave:
Very well put Tom.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your question in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #3208, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now, Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from local.com, July 11, 2008, with a headline: “Man Sues Church Over God Injury.” The following are excerpts: A man said he was so consumed by the Spirit of God that he fell and hit his head while at a Knoxville church. Now he wants Lakewind Church to pay 2.5 million dollars for medical bills, lost income and pain and suffering. He said he’s endured from his injuries. Matt Lincoln, 57, said he decided to sue the church after its insurance company denied his claim for medical bills. Lincoln has had two surgeries since the June 2007 incident, but said he still feels pain in his back and his legs. The Severe County man said he was asking God to have a real experience while praying at church. He said he has fallen from the force of the spirit before, but has always been caught by someone. Lawyers for the church said other congregates saw him on the floor laughing after his fall. They said he failed to look out for his own safety.
Tom:
Dave, as you know, these kinds of manifestations in churches, and we could go back to the Toronto Airport Vineyard, and then supposedly, the spirit moved to Brownsville, Pensacola, Florida, and now we have the same thing going on in Lakeland, Florida by Todd Bentley. Now, let’s just pull back and take a look at this. Here’s a man supposedly seeking the Spirit of God and the Spirit of God manifesting himself, and if that were true, wow you would think the results would be incredible holiness and a desire and a heart to do what God wants. But what do we have here? We have him suing the church for 2.5 million for medical bills, lost income, pain and suffering, because his insurance wouldn’t pay for it. Now, come on, what’s going on here!
Dave:
Well, Tom, if the insurance wouldn’t pay for it, apparently they didn’t find medical cause, because I don’t think, no matter how you injure yourself, he’s not claiming workman’s comp, no matter how you injured yourself, supposedly your insurance, I mean, if you just stepped on a banana peel or whatever, wouldn’t your insurance pay? I guess it depends on the kind of insurance.
Tom:
Yeah, but Dave, what does this tell us about these spiritual manifestations, because this is just one example, but we could give dozens and dozens of people who have wrecked their cars on the way home, who had to have people help them out of the church. Is this the way the Holy Spirit works?
Dave:
We have no indication in the Bible that this is how the Holy Spirit works. The Scripture says, The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, there is nothing about getting out of control. Now the only one that I read of that got out of control apparently, was Saul the king, and he joined the company of the prophets and I don’t know about these prophets in the Old Testament. Some of them seemed to be real prophets, others, I’m not sure. But anyway, it says he lay there naked all day prophesying. I don’t think that’s the activity of the Holy Spirit, and certainly Saul was not a godly man. If this were really the Spirit of God, then you would fall on your face. We always read of those who in the presence of the Lord, they fall on their face. That would be the natural thing to do. But in the garden when Jesus is surrounded by enemies, soldiers and so forth and Judas, and He says, I am, I’m the one you seek, they all fell backward. That doesn’t reflect very well on this falling backward. And we see Benny Hinn or Todd Bentley or whoever they are, but they should fall on their face. Now if he had fallen on his face, he would have been able to catch himself. Well, where were the catchers? Apparently, there were supposed to be some catchers there. And Tom, I could tell you—we won’t even talk about it, but incidents that happen at Benny Hinn’s crusades, where people broke a hip bone, broke a leg or some huge guy fell on someone else and so forth. I don’t read in the Bible about catchers! So, I guess that’s part of his complaint. Where were the catchers?
Tom:
Well, I think his complaint needs to go back to his own participation in all of this. If he was truly seeking God. But we find so many times, people are seeking after prosperity or healing or whatever, not a heart for God but a heart for getting their problems resolved.
Dave:
It would be interesting to see how the court rules, Tom.
Tom:
And Dave, I think we can look ahead. If the court rules in his favor, Todd Bentley, as you’ve read some of the stories, it’s not like Benny Hinn, just waving his hand over somebody, or just kind of pushing somebody back, or knocking somebody’s wig off, whatever it might be. Todd’s into punching, okay, and elbowing and so this physical involvement to the point of, hey, I think the lawyers need to take heed for these people.
Dave:
To get the people to fall down, this is what he does?
Tom:
Well, it isn’t just that, but supposedly this is how the Spirit moves him to impart healing. Can you imagine getting elbowed in the gut, and that’s the way the Holy Spirit works through this man? No, this is so far removed from truth and the Holy Spirit it’s absurd, it’s ludicrous!
Dave:
This was a Knoxville church, so it wasn’t the Lakeland church in Florida?
Tom:
No, but a precedent could be set here, Dave, that’s my point.
Dave:
Yeah. Well, it doesn’t sound to me as though he was really seeking God. If he was seeking God he would find God, and he would not be in this condition.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily.You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page .
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials, including books in print,
E-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #3108, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD; ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. Now:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from Christian News Service, July 1, 2008, with a headline: “Chinese Security Forces Raid House Church at Coal Mine.” The following are excerpts: Chinese security forces raided a house church at a coal mine in China’s Gonsu province and detained several Christians as part of a crackdown on unauthorized worship services in the Communist nation. The raid took place at a house church at the Hong We coal mine located in Bayin City in the provinces Ping Schwan district. Several believers including Wong Fian, a Chinese man in charge of the gathering and two female members were detained for several days. Wong was placed under ten days administrative detention, while the two unidentified women were held for three days. The next day officials reportedly detained two more members at the same site who both received ten days of administrative detention. They were also fined 1,000 China Won Renminbe, or about $145, a high amount in Gon Su, one of China’s poorest provinces. Gon Su authorities defended the crackdown saying in published remarks that these people are suspected of engaging in cult activities and undermining public security, adding that the house church had public gatherings for 3 years in the local area. Chinese Christians have expressed concerns over reports of a wider crackdown on house churches ahead of the upcoming Olympic Games in the Chinese capitol Beijing. The raids have been linked to concern among Communist officials that Christians worshipping outside the Communist backed churches will use the Olympics to gain international attention for their plight.
Tom:
Dave, when we were in Hong Kong last year, I heard, before going there that there were more Christians in mainland China than there may be in the rest of the world. Now, I thought that seemed to be pushing it a little bit, but after our experience just in Hong Kong with the people that we met, with the young people that we had the opportunity to speak to, I can believe it. Dave, as you remember, these young people, I think are going to be missionaries going into mainland China. And I don’t have any doubt that God had his hand upon them, seemed to be an anointing there. But also, we know from the history of the church that, correct me here, but isn’t persecution the life blood of the church, or isn’t there a phrase to that.
Dave:
Tertonian who said, the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.
Tom:
It’s not we want to see our brothers and sisters in Christ martyred. On the other hand, and one of the reasons I selected this news alert is that we would pray for these people who are being persecuted in mainland China.
Dave:
Well, it is getting worse, Tom, some are being executed, the government is cracking down. Now the government is changing its ways, they have become a capitalist country now, and they now are in the world market. I’ve talked to people from over there, business men for example, and I say, Can China ever go back to where it was? Absolutely not, they’ve come too far! So, when you get to where they are, there are certain rules you have to go by. For example, we’ve been sending food back that is contaminated, or toys that have lead in the paint, and so forth, they sent them back—you’re going to have to get up to the standards of the West. Now that carries over into what we are talking about, because you begin persecuting these Christians, well, we aren’t looking with favor on China. Now you’ve got to get out of that mode and begin to live more like the Western world. Well, of course the Western world, a lot of places, what’s the point of persecuting the Church in Sweden or France?
Tom:
You can’t tell the difference.
Dave:
There is no power at all.
Tom:
Yeah, but Dave, the thing that I find curious, and I really believe because this persecution is demonic, it doesn’t make any sense. The most productive people, these people come to Christ, they are living for Christ, and they are a model in the community. You know, they are not a cult, trying to bring down the, start revolution or anything like that. Yet the persecution persists and there has to be a spiritual battle going on here and a motivation, I think, right out of the pit of hell.
Dave:
Yeah, but Tom, we could show that Satan is confused, he doesn’t know which way to go. For example, Jesus addresses Peter as Satan, Get thee behind me, Satan! Why was that? Because Peter was saying, Lord, you don’t have to go to the cross, they’re not going to kill you. So he was denying the very heart of the gospel.
Tom:
Looking like he was looking for Jesus’ best interests here.
Dave:
He was thinking so. Now this is the first pope, so the Catholics say, he got off to a rather poor start.
Tom:
In terms of infallibility.
Dave:
Right, and he’s rebuked by Jesus. But then the next thing Satan enters into Judas to betray Jesus to the cross. So now Judas who at one point was trying to get Peter to influence Christ not to go to the cross, and now he’s changed his mind. Now let’s get Him up there, let’s nail Him to that cross. So I would say Satan is brilliant beyond all of our computers put together, but he’s also blinded by his own ego. I think that Satan really thinks he’s going to win. After all, who wouldn’t follow him? Look at all the perks he gives you.
Tom:
Well, Dave, again, I want to emphasize why we’re bringing this to everybody’s attention. We need to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ who are under persecution. Certainly China, as this report indicates, but throughout the world, people who are just trying to be steadfast in the faith, live a life that’s pleasing to God, and helpful to their community, yet they are being persecuted.
Dave:
Well, it was Constantine recognized this, he said, we’ve been making a mistake, we’ve been killing these Christians. Look, they are the best citizens we have, they don’t get drunk, they don’t start revolutions, they are hard workers, let’s encourage them. So he made the church the official—everybody became a Christian and then that was the smartest thing Satan did because now he’s got a bunch of phonies pretending to be Christians.
Tom:
So whether the ploy of Satan is seduction or persecution, we really need to hold the body of Christ in prayer.
Dave:
Amen.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily.You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page . A transcript for this program is currently being prepared, and will be posted here in 2-4 weeks
