religion in the news
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily.You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page .
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s. DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #2908, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. If you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now, Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This weeks item is from an ad in the Entertainment Ministry, the following are excerpts: Did you know that Superman and his father share the last name of El, the Hebrew word for God, or that his earthly parents were originally named Mary and Joseph, and that his arch enemy is a man called Lex Luther, a named suspiciously like Lucifer? Who is this superman? About the story: From above a father sends his only son to earth. The son is raised by adoptive parents in humble surroundings, yet he has a special destiny. He will use his unique powers to fight the good fight. He will wage a never ending battle for truth and justice. He alone will sacrifice his life in order to bring a better way to the oppressed and afflicted in all of humanity. This is the story of two saviors. About the study: Superman is not Jesus Christ, but he is a Christ figure, as we all should be. Thus this 3-volume study reveals the striking parallels between Jesus Christ and Superman, applies those points to our personal lives and equips us to reach those who are attracted to a superman, but don’t know their true savior is the superman Jesus Christ.
Tom:
You know, Dave, if I wanted to bend over backwards, in which I think I would have to, I’d say, Well, this person is sincere and he’s trying to do something good, whoever developed this, and so on, but I can’t go there. This is trashing the Bible, this is trivializing, I think, the Word of God. This is a cartoon character, you know, a comic strip character, and you want to relate this character to the Savior of the world, God the God/man Jesus Christ? There are a lot of problems with this, but you pick up on it and I’ll jump on it later.
Dave:
Well, again, I referred to Mary Baker Eddy, founder of Christian Science, and she thought if we could just turn Jesus into a scientist—wow! Look how powerful he would be, he knows all the laws, and so forth. You’re demoting Jesus, He’s not a miracle worker anymore, it all works by laws and all you have to do is know the laws and you can do it the same. And that’s exactly what Pat Robertson taught in that book, and continues to teach, as far as I know. That we can do it because we can speak this word of faith. God said, Let there be light, well then, we can—think of the force, the power in your tongue. So now, Superman—Wow! Now if we could liken Jesus to Superman, wouldn’t that really, I mean, fantastic, you could see Jesus in a new light and you could see that He really is a superman. No, He is not a superman, He is divine. It reminds me of The Message. I think we are going to say a word about that, I guess. What is it? John 3:30, I think it is that says, well, in The Message: He that is from above is head and shoulders above all other messengers. What? He is above all, and you are demoting Jesus to bring Him down to the level of Superman. Superman, no!
Tom:
You see, Dave, this idea, this approach, not only is it superficial at best, but it’s misleading, you know, as you’ve been pointing out. Now we’re trying to identify Jesus with, as I said, a comic strip character. What are we learning? At best we’re learning something that’s dead wrong, missing who Christ is, as you said, this is God, this is the divine Jesus Christ. All right, so it’s misleading that way. The other thing is, it has reduced the Word of God, the living God, to trivia. Okay, but supposedly the attraction is, well you know, a lot of people like Superman, a lot of people like popular stuff, it’s entertaining. It doesn’t stop with Superman, this Entertainment Ministry, they have the Mayberry Bible Study. Now I know you’ve never been into TV, and so on, so you wouldn’t know some of these things, but this is Andy Griffith, the Mayberry Bible study, the Beverly Hills Bible study, the Lucy Arnez Show Bible study, the VanDyke Show Bible study, Gilligan’s Island Bible study, the Bonanza Bible study, A Christmas Carol Bible study. What! Look how we have, not just drifted away, we’ve been herded away from the Word of God.
Dave:
Well, we’re insulting God, He needs a little help.
Tom:
Demeaning, undermining.
Dave:
Demeaning is right. He needs a little help, and let me just read the last few lines of this news item.
Tom:
Well, it’s actually an advertisement.
Dave:
Right, this is an ad. This 3-volume study—wow! Three volumes reveals a striking parallel between Jesus Christ and Superman. Well, first of all, Superman never existed and Jesus did! And Superman—you couldn’t even begin to compare him to Jesus Christ. It’s an insult to the Lord.
Tom:
Well, at such an incredibly superficial level, and it can’t go any deeper than that, that’s the problem.
Dave:
Right, and it applies these points to our personal lives and equips us to reach those who are attracted to a superman but don’t know their true Savior is the Superman Jesus Christ. Tom, Wow, they preach the gospel from all kinds of fall out, the Force, the Star Wars Force.
Tom:
Right.
Dave:
Somebody wrote a book about that.
Tom:
Right, The Gospel According to John Lennon, I mean, whatever seems to be attractive or that you can market, let’s put it in those terms, this is marketing, this is about a book, this is about something that might get popular because people are into it. It’s blasphemy, Dave!
Dave:
Blasphemy, and it’s the wrong motive.
Tom:
Right.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily.You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page .
Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk ask for Program #2808, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now, Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the New York Times, April 26, 2008, with a headline: “Legal Tussles Among Creators of The Secret.” The following are excerpts: The Secret does seem to have brought happiness to some of those involved in the creation of The Secret, but perhaps high priced lawyers will help. This popular straight to video movie and the best self-help book based on it, promised adherence to its philosophy will receive unlimited happiness, love, help and prosperity. According to the official website, thesecret.tv. all they need to do is follow the Law of Attraction, an ancient principle that holds that the universe will make your wishes come true if only you really, truly believe in them. Following that creed before the movie’s release in 2006, Rhonda Burn, the project’s creator, held parties celebrating its success envisioning world-wide acclaim. Nasty legal squabbling is most likely what Ms. Burn wished for, but it has nevertheless come to her. The director of the movie and the developer of The Secret website are separately claiming she has reneged on promises of a cut of the project’s profits. On Monday, the movie’s director, Drew Harriet filed a copyright suit in United States District Court for the Northern district of Illinois Eastern division against Ms. Burn and her production company. The suit claims that Mr. Harriet is the co-author of the screen play and the book and is therefore entitled to up to half of what his lawyers estimate as three hundred million dollars in Secret revenue. The battle over proceeds seems a far cry from the munificent spirit Ms. Burn espoused as her movie was first entering the self-help pantheon. In an interview in February 2007, she recalled how she had mortgaged everything she owned to finance the movie because she wanted to give the knowledge it contained to the world. Success was never about profit she said, but about the journey of discovering what she was intended to do with her life. One of the big things in discovering The Secret she said, was discovering me.
Tom:
Dave, as you know, and we worked on it for a number of months and maybe some of our viewers or listeners that don’t know we produced a DVD addressing The Secret, using, you know, much of their content so that we could say, this is what they are saying, and then we analyzed it, we critiqued and so on. And the conclusion was, this is worse than the theater of the absurd. The claims that they make, number one, is not fulfilled in their lives. Oh yeah, they’ve made money, there isn’t any doubt about that, but they’ve made money because they sold a bill of goods incredibly, irrational, illogical and they couldn’t substantiate anything that they said.
Dave:
Let me give a quick example, Tom, I don’t want to interrupt your thought here. Look, “the universe will give you anything you want.” The universe doesn’t know anything, the universe is inanimate, but anyway, let’s say it will. Now, this is a simple illustration: We’ve got a company here, let’s say Tom’s the VP and I’m the CFO, chief financial officer, and we’d each like to be sitting in the president’s chair right now, quick! Well, but the auto mechanic who works on the limo that chauffeurs the president around, he’d like to be in the president’s chair, so would a whole lot of other people in this company. They’ve all been following The Secret, they’ve got the DVD, and they’re convinced that the universe will give them the president’s chair! Now who is going to get the president’s chair? I mean, we’ve got the universe really confused now. It is absurd!
Tom:
Well, Dave, it’s worse than that, as we mentioned, when they move into the area of healing. We’ve seen this in the positive confession of the prosperity gospel that’s been a part of modern Christianity for decades. It puts people in a position in which they may not go and get the help that they need, because No, they have to have the faith, or they have to believe, or they don’t want to give a negative confession because the great mind, or the power of the universe somehow is going to be affected by a negative thought, and they are going to get the bad results that they don’t want. Now Dave, on the other hand, what makes me angry about this, and startled to some degree, Christians are getting involved in this. As you know, the people of The Secret, they appeal to the Bible, and they are saying, Oh, all the great teachers of the world, Jesus and so forth, they knew The Secret, they understood The Secret, and so on. Now, just the other day I was going through the Scriptures and I was reading—Jesus is on the cross now, well, how did that happen? It certainly wasn’t a positive confession there, but then He cries out from the cross, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me? A fulfillment of prophecy, right? Now, that seems to me to be a very negative statement, and certainly not consistent with what they teach in The Secret.
Dave:
Well, Tom, I can’t recall now the names of all of these people who were some of the great—Emerson, and so forth—
Tom:
Edison, you go down the line, Lincoln.
Dave:
Right. Well, go back and look at some of them. Some of them died in the 50’s. I think, was it Waddles? I don’t remember his exact name, but anyway, he had his big book coming out, and he died one year after the book came out. Now surely he would have wanted to live longer, to gain more of the revenue from that book, and to be there to get the praise, and so forth. What comes to all of them, the Bible says: “It is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment…” I guarantee you it’s not going to be the universe that gives you anything you want, that will judge you, it’s going to be the God who created the universe!
Tom:
You know, again Dave, we produced a DVD addressing this because it’s a fraud, it’s a major fraud.
Dave:
Well, who was it backed by? Ophra and by Larry King.
Tom:
Well, he gave them an opportunity to present the material. But my concern is that those who have Christian friends who are getting into this who don’t understand how fraudulent it is, I would recommend picking up the DVD in which we go through it almost frame by frame, and give you the biblical perspective.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily.You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page .
Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still to come, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter, which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number, 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from Christian Newswire April 28, 2008, with a headline: “Celebration Announced For Calvin’s Birth, Theology, World Influence” The following are excerpts: Calvin 500.org announces its plans for a 2009 Quincentenery Celebration of the Birth of Protestant Reformer John Calvin, born in 1509. Multiple conferences are planned in Europe and the U.S. as an International inter-denominational and interdisciplinary commemoration of Calvin’s life and work. “Calvin is one of the most important thinkers in history,” said Calvin 500 Executive Director Reverend David Hall. His ministry and writings left an indelible impression on the modern world, and especially Western culture. Culminating with conferences and multiple locations in 2009, Reverend Hall says the celebration combines history, spirituality, and culture to recognize the life and work of the Geneva reformer. Calvinistic scholars and ministers will serve as popular guides to acquaint participants with Calvin’s influence, especially in Western thought, his vibrant city and the cultural, religious, political and economic impact flowing from the movement he helped lead. “The event is a multi-faceted approach seeking to introduce many people to John Calvin,” said Hall.
Tom:
Dave, maybe I could say, reasonably, you wouldn’t be one of John Calvin’s biggest fans. On the other hand, are there things that we can appreciate about John Calvin, as many of the Reformers, you know, they were either Catholics or Catholic priests. They had left the Roman Catholic church, which at that time, seemed to them at least, the only religion in the world, yet they abandoned Roman Catholicism, not everything, they brought some baggage with them, but what can we say about John Calvin? You’ve been to Geneva, I’ve been to Geneva, I’ve visited Calvin’s church, I’ve been to the Reformers museum there, and so, plus and minuses. What would you say, is it worth having a celebration of the birth of this Protestant reformer?
Dave:
Well, I don’t think so, Tom, but then the Calvinists get very upset. Luther? Yes. Luther, really he got this thing going. John Calvin did not accomplish that. John Calvin took over Geneva, and then he was thrown out of Geneva because he was too harsh.
Tom:
Yeah, he’s known as the Protestant Pope.
Dave:
Yeah, then they welcomed him back. Well, you had to obey. In other words, this was salvation enforced upon people. Suddenly, here they are opening your door, and they want to know—oops, you’ve got too many dishes on the table—oops, too high of a cloth on the wife’s head, and so forth. Not only that, but they were—well, during John Calvin’s time, when he was, well, he wasn’t the mayor, he wasn’t the head of it but he was the head of the counsel, at least they consulted him. I mean, well, what did John Calvin say? I think they burned 64 people at the stake, they burned them for various reasons. If you bad mouth John Calvin, you could be burned at the stake. On one occasion they cut one of the, I think it was only one, maybe it was two of the people that they beheaded, and they cut them in quarters and they nailed those quarters of these martyrs in various parts of Geneva to remind you, to let you know the consequences were severe. Now John Calvin enforced religion, enforced Christianity. I have a lot of problems with him because he introduced Calvinism of course, and I will only give you one feature. I’ve had Calvinists that say, Well, you complain about limited atonement, in other words, Jesus only died for the elect. Well, but the same thing with you because you say that Jesus died for all, but everybody doesn’t get to heaven, what’s the difference? Well, the very big difference is that we believe what the Bible says that God wants everybody in heaven, but it’s up to them to choose that Christ did die for everyone. But you Calvinists say, No, Christ only died for the elect—O, He could have everyone in heaven if He wanted them, but He didn’t want everybody there.
Tom:
Dave, there are so many confusing elements to this. Number One: Calvin leaves the Catholic church, he was persecuted by the Roman Catholic church.
Dave:
Well, let me just quickly, Tom, I know there is no time. He was on the payroll of the Catholic church for right up to the end, and then, well, I won’t go into the details but he was on the payroll for several years after he sort of made his break, but he was a bit dishonest in this.
Tom:
But my point here is that, Dave, one of his heroes, Augustine the doctor of the church who probably most false teachings of the Roman Catholic church came through Augustine. Now, Dave, in just a couple of minutes here, why has the evangelical church, many Calvinist Reformed theologians, why have they embraced this man who brought so much Catholicism into the church when Reformers have a history of being anti-Catholic? I don’t understand this.
Dave:
Well, Augustine believed in the death penalty for heretics, but Augustine, when you read his confessions, there’s a lot of good stuff in there, so it’s a mixed bag and pretty hard to sort out the good from the bad. The same would be with Calvin, you read his Institutes of the Christian Religion, there is some very sound doctrine in there, but mixed in it’s enough to—well, I would question. You see, Calvin said the only way to know whether you are one of the electives if you are baptized as a baby. Now you’ve got a lot of people who aren’t Presbyterians, they were not baptized as babies. Now how are they going to know whether they are one of the elect? You really can’t know, and R. C. Sproul tells of a time when he was so concerned about his salvation because he wasn’t performing well enough.
Tom:
Right, that’s the “p” in TULIP, perseverance of the saints.
Dave:
It’s not perseverance of God keeping you saved, it’s perseverance of the saints. But if you persevere then you’ve got a good chance, you think you are probably one of the elect, but you still can’t be assured.
Tom:
You know, Dave, this, again, it’s really confusing to me as a former Catholic. This smacks of Catholic’s “works” salvation, honestly.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of the Berean Call. Still to come in this re-visit to our first program series in 1999, “Religion in the News,” plus answers to your questions in “Contending for the Faith.” And, in “Understanding the Scriptures,” Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. And, during this special representation of our first radio series, we are making a limited number of copies of Dave and Tom’s controversial classic, The Seduction of Christianity available at a great price. Only $7.50 each including shipping, while supplies last. Just ask about our radio special when you contact us. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #2608, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to 1999. Now,
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
This segment could be subtitled, “Further Signs of the Apostasy,” a commentary on spiritual events and trends reported in the media that help measure the condition of professing Christianity. This selection is from the London Daily Telegraph, July 6, 1998. “The Reverend Tony Higdon, Rector of Emmanuel and Saint Mary, the Virgin, Octwell Essex, revealed to the general synod yesterday his interest in the New Age movement, it’s use of crystals for meditation. In the past, Mr. Higdon, a conservative evangelical, has vigorously fought against any slackening of the church’s teaching on homosexuality. It was Mr. Higdon’s private member's motion to Synod in 1987, that led to the church declaring that homosexual genital acts fall short of the Christian ideal. Last year, he wrote about a spiritual experience that led to him deciding not to be so aggressive and confrontational. He announced his change of heart in the Synod debate on a new service for wholeness and healing aimed at preventing bizarre healing practices and exorcisms. Mr. Higdon told the Synod: I am seeking to engage in dialogue with the New Age movement in order to discover what is good in it. In our parish we have learned classical relaxation and meditation and I provide beautiful objects other than myself for meditation. He said he had mounted the crystals, which are mentioned in the Book of Revelation and laid them in the south transept of Saint Mary, the Virgin. The Bishop of Chalmsford, the Rite Reverend John Perry, chairman for the church’s counsel on health and healing said he had been to one of Mr. Higton’s services and found it to be a normal Christian one. The bishop in Europe, theRite Reverend John Hind, who chaired the committed for the new rite said that Mr. Higdon’s experiences reflected a quest throughout society for healing. The healing rite will be revised and returned to the Synod next year. It was expected to be in use in churches by 2000.”
Tom:
Well, Dave, here’s a conservative evangelical who is kind of thrown off his ways of confrontation. I mean, does this speak to us? Are we to dialogue with the New Age to pick up on their techniques?
Dave:
Well, first of all, he mentions meditation. He doesn’t define that term but we know what New Age meditation is. In the Bible meditation is thinking deeply to come to a clear understanding of God or of his Word. Eastern meditation, which is associated with the relaxation techniques that he’s talking about, involves the opposite. You tune it out. You recite a mantra, whatever, and you let something else take over. You reach an altered state of consciousness which loosens the connection between you and your brain and your spirit and allows another spirit to interpose itself. Then he talks about--he had some spiritual experiences. This is the antithesis of what our program is about. We’re trying to draw people back to the Word of God. He didn’t come to a conviction of heart and mind based upon sound doctrine. Teaching the Word of God but he got some spiritual experience.
Tom:
That’s what converted him. That’s what changed him, changed his whole view.
Dave:
Right. And that is very, very dangerous. A lot of people are seeking experiences rather than truth. Now, I’m not saying that you can’t have an experience. I mean, I have experienced the power of God, the joy of the Lord. I mean, my wife and I have taken things behind the Iron Curtain, for example. We’ve seen God do miracles and blind the guards’ eyes. I’ve been healed instantly myself--I’ve seen others healed instantly. We don’t pick up our doctrine or learn about God from our experiences, but from His Word.
Tom:
And, you don’t turn to pagan practices, to the occult, to try and find out what may be good in it--what may be practical--what may work.
Dave:
Right. Here’s a spiritual technique which, as you say is pagan practice, comes out of yoga, out of Hinduism, Buddhism, it doesn’t come from the Word of God and it is through this spiritual experience that now he has come to some new conclusions that, in fact, are contrary to the
Word of God. He was opposed to homosexuality. The Bible opposes homosexuality, but now suddenly, through some spiritual experience, he no longer opposes this.
Well, we should at least face the facts that the Bible opposes homosexuality, furthermore, that it cuts your life expectancy about in half and that is not being taught, not being told or revealed to the children in school where this is being introduced. But that’s a whole other topic. But the problem here is pagan practices, Eastern meditation, a spiritual experience that caused him to change his convictions and it didn’t come about through the Word of God.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of the Berean Call. Still ahead in this re-visit to our first program series in 1999, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith. And, in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. And, during this special representation of our first radio series, we are making a limited number of copies of Dave and Tom’s controversial classic, The Seduction of Christianity available at a great price. Only $7.50 each, including shipping in the US, while supplies last. Just ask about the radio special when you contact us. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #2508, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to 1999. Now,
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and commentary on spiritual events and trends in the media. Statements issued by political leaders and celebrities can have an impact on the body of Christ. That point is highlighted by this item from The Salt Lake Tribune: “Former U. S. President, Jimmy Carter may be the nation’s most visible Southern Baptist but he does not always think like one. Among his views: We are not living in the last days. Prayers should not be mandated in school, women should be allowed in pulpits, this was never a Christian nation, and by the way, Mormons should be considered Christians. Carter compared denomination leaders who decide who can and cannot be considered an acceptable person in the eyes of God to Pharisees, who were condemned by Christ. Carter supports the idea of taking the message of Jesus Christ to all the world but objects to proselytizing meant to convert Christians from one group to another. ‘If you mean, should we Protestants devote our time to converting Catholics to be Protestants, that’s something with which I generally disagree,’ he said.” Dave and T. A. will now comment.
Tom:
Dave, this is our former President and he makes a lot of statements here, religious statements, statements that relate to spirituality that are off the wall, I think.
Dave:
Well, some of them I would certainly agree with. I don’t think we should have prayer mandated in public schools. Whose prayers are going to be? What kinds are they going to be, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and so forth?
Tom:
Prayers mandated and coerced is no longer prayer.
Dave:
That’s right. Well, who is going to lead it and then it would be sponsored by the government and it shouldn’t be, but on the other hand, each individual should be free to pray as they want, not out loud to everybody but they could certainly bow their head and pray at any time, they should be allowed to. And I would certainly agree with him that the United States is not nor ever was a Christian country. I don’t think there is any such thing as a Christian country anywhere in the world.
Tom:
Even though there are people out there and there have been many books written saying that we are a Christian nation? Does God have a covenant with the United States of America?
Dave:
Well, we would have to look at those issues factually and see whether these were really Christians or were they deists?
Tom:
And that will be a show that we will do down the road.
Dave Hunt:
Right. As far as what he said about Mormons, I mean, that’s astonishing. He’s an intelligent man. I can’t believe that he’s ignorant. I think he just wants to be tolerant. He surely knows that the Mormon god is a man—(I mean, there are trillions of gods out there with the god of this world, Mormons would say)—is a man with a physical body who was redeemed (he was a sinner) redeemed on another planet, by another Jesus who pulled himself up by his boot straps, became a god and now he’s the god over this world. Jesus of Mormonism, is not God who became a man, but he was a spirit being in the pre-existent world, half-brother to Lucifer as all of us are his half-brothers and sisters. His body came about when father god came with his physical body and had physical sex with Mary, so Jesus was not born of a virgin. One of the most famous sayings in Mormonism is: As man is, god once was, as god is, man may become and so the goal of Mormon males is to become another god, have another planet, another Adam and Eve, another Lucifer, another fall, another Jesus, another redemption—it’s one eternal round. And eternal life, which the Bible says is a free gift, in Mormonism you earn it. You go through temple rituals and ceremonies and so forth and eternal life to a Mormon is not living in heaven with Jesus, but it’s having your own earth, being a god over your own world, exultation to godhood. And Jesus didn’t pay for this on the Cross by His redemptive work and so forth. Mormonism is as far from Christianity as you can possibly get. So, for Jimmy Carter to say we shouldn’t be concerned about converting them, we ought to be concerned about converting them! I don’t think that he’s speaking from ignorance but from tolerance.
Tom:
Right. Well, tolerance is the problem here. It’s one of the reasons that this article made it into the further signs of the apostasy segment of our program. He makes another statement which shows, you know, I would think, tolerance, except among evangelicals this is a problem of recognizing the gospel of Roman Catholicism versus the Biblical gospel. There’s a great distinction. The gap is wide and very wide.
Dave:
It’s not an issue of converting Catholics to become Protestants, I have no interest in that. The Bible doesn’t even talk about Protestants. It’s, are we saved or are we lost, are we on the way to heaven or are we not, have we believed the gospel of Jesus Christ that saves or have we believed the false gospel of rituals and works? I believe that we can demonstrate very thoroughly from their own writings, not from ex-Catholics but from their own writings, that Catholicism is a religion where you earn your way to heaven by the sacraments and your good deeds and so forth. But that again is another issue. It would take more time to deal with it.
Tom:
And we will be dealing with these issues, if the Lord tarries, in the days ahead.
Dave:
Probably the most shocking thing about the article is that Jimmy Carter continues to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, that they haven’t excommunicated him. I would think that they should have by now. You would have to wonder does he really know the gospel to make statements like this. Is he really saved himself? Now, that’s not for my opinion, the issue is does he really believe the gospel that saves? and that’s a matter of fact and of faith.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
You’re listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of the Berean Call. Still to come in our revisit to our first program series in 1999, Religion in the News, plus answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly Newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. And, during this special representation of our first radio series, we are making a limited number of copies of Dave and Tom’s controversial classic, The Seduction of Christianity available at a great price. Only $7.50 each, including shipping, while supplies last. Just ask about the radio special when you contact us. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us POB 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708. Call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #2408, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program. We continue now with our special revisit to 1999.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS Now Religion in the News, a report and commentary on spiritual events and trends reported in the media. Perhaps we could subtitle this segment as further signs of the apostasy. In a sense, this is our spiritual thermometer as we evaluate the condition of professing Christianity. This item is from The Arizona Daily Star, dated April 18, 1998, with the headline, "Trendy Tiaze Prayer Services." "Since the beginning of time young people have found reasons to sit close to one another on the floor in the dark. Well, now they are doing it at church at a trendy type of prayer service called, Tiaze. Tiaze is a group method of Christian prayer that combines Bible readings with repetitive chanting and meditative silences. It presents them in a format that’s user friendly. The market research take on Tiezeh, is that it’s elements of chanting and contemplation make it quintessential, nineties mix of spirituality and individualism. Tiezeh songs, in contrast, are introspective, sung in harmony and accompanied by classical instruments or an organ. They are often one sentence or phrase repeated over and over; such as, "Lord, have compassion." Now, many U. S. churches and main-stream Catholic and Protestant denominations are adding Tiezeh to their menu of services. Gary: Dave and Tom will now comment. Tom: What do you think? I mean, if it gets people to go to church can’t it be okay? Dave: It’s a community, Tiezeh is a community over there in France. I haven’t visited it but they are into mysticism. The pope has visited, by the way, and is quite happy with it. Now, what we’re talking about here are the very techniques that we were just refuting. First of all, repetition. They think that--it’s like spinning a Buddhist prayer wheel in Tibet, you know. Jesus said the heathen use vain repetition and they think they will be heard for their much speaking. Actually, in this case, "Lord have mercy;" that is a prayer, but in this case it’s more like a mantra to put you into an altered state of consciousness. Tom: You say it over and over and over. You’re not communicating, you’re trying to change something within yourself, right? Dave: You are really tuning yourself out. You’re getting into an altered state of consciousness. But, what is the point? Jesus said: Use not vain repetition as the heathen for they think they will be heard for their much speaking and then he said--the disciples said, tell us how to pray. No, they didn’t say tell us how to pray--they said, Lord, teach us to pray. There's a big difference and there is no technique. And Jesus didn’t say repeat this prayer, they call it the Lord’s prayer. It’s not the Lord’s Prayer. The Lord’s Prayer is in John 17, that the Lord prayed. This is the so called Lord’s prayer---the Lord would never pray this prayer: Lead us not into temptation, deliver us from evil and so forth--forgive us our sins as we forgive those that trespass against us--that’s not a prayer the Lord would pray but he said to the disciples: After this manner pray ye. In other words this is a pattern, but it has become a mantra also. I mean, you were a Catholic once upon a time. How many times did you say: the "Our Father," over and over and over? And, this is what they are doing so they are getting into kind of a mood and they think this is going to accomplish--it could give them a good feeling--but it’s really--I’m not trying to split hairs, I’m not trying to be just a "party pooper" for this party that they are trying to have that’s sitting on the floor in the dark and chanting, but it has nothing to do with getting to know God. Tom: Right, and that’s the heartbreak of this because people are drawn into and from a feeling orientation that somehow they are going to feel closer or get closer to God. But this isn’t His way. If I would say to somebody: This is interesting and it does have a kind of a sense of being religious, but is this what God wants? Is this how he is calling those to draw near to Him? Give me examples, I mean, was this good for Paul, the apostle Paul? Dave: Never, ever would you find it in the Bible. You will find the contrary. In fact, God, in the Old Testament in Jeremiah 9:23,24 says, "don’t let the wise glory in his wisdom, the wise shouldn’t glory in his wisdom, the rich in his riches, the mighty in his might; But let him that glorieth glory in this,--". Oh, you could sit down and chant and get a real religious feeling. No, that’s not what it says--"That he understandeth and knoweth me." And then God gives some of his characteristics: I am the Lord who exercises mercy and loving kindness and justice on the earth; for in these things do I delight. Jesus said the real Lord’s prayer in John 17:3. He said; this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. And one day--well, we quoted it in our earlier segment--Jesus said; I will say to them, I never knew you. You don’t get to know somebody by chanting their name even. I could sit down and chant to my wife, "have mercy on me, have mercy on me," I mean, or to some person I can chant their name or whatever. That’s not getting to know them but Christianity is about getting to know God. Through His Word, through Communion with Him, allowing Him to speak to us through His Word and it doesn’t come through some mystical state. That is never taught in the Word of God. Tom: And that’s critical. God has laid out how He wants us to come to Him. How He wants us to grow in our relationship with Him. I would say anyone out there whose church is into this and really want to know the Lord; go to those who are bringing this into the church. Ask them to give you examples from God’s Word of how this relates to what God wants. Dave: Why didn’t Paul suggest this? Why didn’t Peter? In fact, they talk about the contrary. Paul talks about doctrine. He says, you have known my doctrine. He emphasizes doctrine--he emphasizes truth. It’s not a feeling but it’s through truth that we come to know the Lord and he is the Truth. So He said: If you continue in my Word, then are you my disciples indeed, you will know the Truth. And the Truth, not chanting, not therapy, the Truth will set you free. And how does that come about? Well, we could launch off in a long sermon but we are running out of time here. But it comes through the Spirit of Truth John 16:13: When he, the Spirit of Truth is come, he will lead you into all truth, he will teach you of me. So this is what we need rather than chanting although my sympathy would be with these people who are trying to get a religious feeling and maybe church didn’t appeal to them in its ordinary form and they think this goes down a little better, but it’s only leading them into a delusion and that concerns me.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page.
Gary:
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith. And in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will continue their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program, we publish a monthly Newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us PO Box 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 1-800-937-6638, that’s 1-800-937-6638, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #2308, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.RELIGION IN THE NEWS
A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from Christian Newswire, April 24, 2008, with a headline: National Day of Prayer chairman avoids the name of Jesus. The following are excerpts: "Dr. Ravi Zacharias, the 2008 honorary chairman of the National Day of Prayer taskforce has posted his prayer for our nation on the National Day of Prayer website. According to a contact person with NDP, the name of Jesus was avoided, 'So as to not offend the Jewish participants in the event.' The posted prayer reads as follows: 'Holy Father, in a world where so many are hungry you have given us food in abundance. In a world where so many are hurting you offer to bind up our wounds. In a world longing for peace you offer hope, yet we are so stubborn and resistant. Have mercy upon us, Lord, our nation is at a crossroads this year. We look to you to be our strength and shield. Please give us the guidance to elect one who will honor You and to respond to the wisdom from above so that our hope may be renewed and our blessings be treasured. In God’s holy name.'"
Tom:
Dave, the criticism of this, and I think it’s warranted, Ravi Zacharias left out Jesus. Whether it was intentional or not, actually somebody was contacted with his ministry, and they said basically that the name of Jesus was avoided so as to not offend Jewish participants in the event.
Dave:
Well Tom, let me comment on that. He lists a number of needs, a world where so many go hungry, a world where so many are hurting, where so many are lonely, where they are longing for peace. Well, how about a world where people are on their way to hell for eternity?! And they need the gospel desperately and Christians are told to go into all the world and preach the gospel! This is…Tom, they are just avoiding obedience to Christ’s command. Jesus didn’t say, Oh, let’s go out there and see if we can get all the religions to pray together. As you know, that’s the way Elijah did it when he called for the prophets of Baal and so forth…called for a National Day of Prayer for Israel. Well, let’s get all the pain that is around us to pray, because literally, that’s what they are offering. It’s not just Jews that they are afraid of offending, they are afraid of offending Muslims and everyone else. So Tom, I think the whole concept, and I’ve been trying to say this for years, the whole concept of a National Day of Prayer is built on a false foundation. National Day of Prayer—who’s going to pray? It says, "In God’s Holy name," what god is that? This is a cop out!
Tom:
Mmhmm. Well Dave, it’s like the reaction after 9-11, when you say signs everywhere, "God Bless America." Although I saw one that I thought was good. It said, "America, bless God."
Dave:
Yeah, why should God bless you?
Tom:
Right. Dave, this is a reflection of what we’ve been discussing, the issue of tolerance and intolerance. We certainly don’t want to be viewed, it doesn’t seem like Dr. Zacharias wants to be viewed as being intolerant. But basically, as you point out, he’s missing the boat here, big time. This is an opportunity to bring our country to repentance.
Dave:
Tom, going back to what we were talking about as far as health, the commands from God. Well, you know, my old illustrations, I think they get the point across very well. I’m a doctor and you come to me and I examine you, and then you say, Doc, what’s the diagnosis or prognosis? And I say, Well, Tom, I wouldn’t be so intolerant as to come up with a definite diagnosis, I might offend people who have a different idea. What would you like, open heart surgery, it’s been very popular lately, I can transplant a kidney, I think everyone is entitled to the operation of his choice. Now that is stupidity! But now, what is more important, having a physical operation or whether you are going to go heaven or to hell? Well, yeah, but I don’t want to offend anybody. This is what the hospice movement is about. We’re going to care for the dying, but we wouldn’t dare, you can’t tell them the alternatives out there because that’s not allowed, that’s religion. So Tom, it’s a sad situation.
Tom:
Dave, what about his leaving Jesus out, he ends it, In God’s holy name. Of course Jesus is God, but the avoidance of using the name of Jesus? Didn’t Jesus say, you know, If you deny me before men I’ll deny you.
Dave:
Well, Tom, this is ecumenism, and this is, as I said, based on a false foundation. How are you going to get the prophets of Baal to pray with you, Elijah, for the blessing of Israel? No, you can’t do it. So, what is the point of this prayer? Who are we praying to? Our nation is at a crossroads this year, we look to you to be our strength and shield, please give us the guidance to elect one who will honor you. Who is this you? All the way through they are asking for guidance and talking to some being, and then he finally says, In God’s holy name. Tom, I’m sorry, that is compromise of Himalayan proportions. What do we mean, In god’s holy name? Well, take your pick, what god do you want it to be.
Tom:
Dave, one last thing about this, we’re seeing this in the church, through evangelicals now were developing a social gospel. Look at all these elements: so many are hungry, so many are hurting, so many are lonely, longing for world peace, give us a leader who will guide us--this is a temporal mentality here of solving the world’s problems.
Dave:
And what good does it do? If you could solve all of these problems and you send them off to a Christless eternity to be in hell forever, what is the point of all of this good stuff you’ve given them in the meantime, even temporarily?
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page . The transcript for this program is as follows:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News: a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from the Sandusky Register, February 16, 2008, with a headline: Santeria Gains Ground in Catholic Venezuela. The following are excerpts: The man says he is possessed by a god. He shouts, his body trembles, and he lifts a sacrificed lamb to his lips, drinking its blood from the jugular. This initiation ceremony, seldom witnessed by outsiders, has become increasingly common in Venezuela as the Afro-Cuban traditions of Santania, and other folk religions gain followers. The rituals have become an attractive option for Venezuelans seeking an unique spiritual path, including healing ceremonies aimed at curing everything from illness to heartache. Some even believe certain gods will offer protection for Venezuela’s rampant violent crime. In overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Venezuela many shops have sprung up in recent years selling roosters, goats, and other animals to be sacrificed in Caracus’ working class barrios. Hundreds of white-clad believers recently crowded into a Catholic church praying before a statue of the virgin De Los Mecerdes, a manifestation of the virgin Mary, who they said represents Obatala, a patriarch in the pantheon of Yoruba gods. Santeria was born in Cuba among Yoruba slaves from West Africa. They were forbidden to practice their own religion so they fused their beliefs with the Catholicism of their masters, starting a tradition that has spread throughout the Americas. Catholic leaders consider the rituals idolatrous, but have come to tolerate the popular practice. “Santeria is on the rise because there are many people who need the help of higher powers to overcome their problems,” said Belkis, a 51 year old “Santera.” It has grown in popularity in New York, Miami and Peurto Rico in the past following influxes of Cubans.
Tom:
Dave, this is the 21st century. This morning in our devotions, our staff devotions, we’re going through Isaiah, Isaiah 44. God is laying out the stupidity really, of forming an idol, making it with your hands and then bowing down before it. But Isaiah…what is that, how many years ago would that be? What, about 800BC?
Dave:
Right, something like that.
Tom:
Something like that. Now, this is the 21st century, and this is not some backwater place, this is Miami, New York, Peurto Rico certainly, but even in Venezuela. These are city folks, these are professionals who are going to these priests for these rituals. How do you explain that?
Dave:
How about New Orleans? That’s the headquarters of, not Santeria, but of— Tom:
—Voodoo, in this country.
Dave:
Right, voodoo. And yet it’s the largest catholic…percentage of Catholics.
Tom:
And again, the people who are participating in this—well, I’ll give you another example, Dave, I visited a Hindu temple outside Chicago. You want to talk about money, the cars in the parking lot were Mercedes, Lexis, the people were engineers, doctors, lawyers, and there they are offering meals to Ganesha the elephant god, to Hanuman the monkey god. How do you explain that?
Dave:
Well, Tom, the explanation is given in the Bible: The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it? I the Lord search the heart. We see it in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve, they’re not going to obey God. This is rebellion against God. So now, I don’t want to follow the one true God, Romans 1 says. They didn’t like to retain God in their conscience, so God gave them up…You want to worship creeping things and so forth…? And you referred to Isaiah earlier…God mocks these people through his prophet Isaiah. And I think Jeremiah does much the same. Oh you cut down a tree and part of it you burn, you know, to keep yourself warm; some of it you use to roast your meat; some of it you use to pick your teeth, make a little toothpick, or whatever; and then the rest you form into the shape of a man and you bow down and worship it. And God says, It has eyes, it can’t see, it has ears, it can’t hear, he’s got feet but he can’t walk, you’ve got to carry it around. So this seems to be, it’s just built into mankind, and you find it everywhere.
Tom:
Now Dave, with regard to the statement: Catholic leaders consider the rituals idolatrous but have come to tolerate the popular practice. Well, in many ways they can’t separate them: the practices, the so-called idolatrous practices of these Santeria, these people who are involved in Santeria, from Catholic ritual and liturgy! Talk about carrying a statue around, talk about vote of candles before statues, lighting candles before—you know where are they going to, how are they going to make a separation? Because really, there is no separation, Dave.
Dave:
And Tom, this uh, is just a superstition but it’s a fanatical religion. And I know that in some parts of maybe um, Miami…there are certain areas that the police don’t go into, because the Santeria is so strong there that you just don’t mess with them, leave them alone.
Tom:
And again, this is not white magic, there are Santeria priests who are into the dark side, who will help criminals kill people through the spirits, through these, you know, as it began here: The man says he’s possessed by a god—no not by a god: by a demon. And you’re going to…the fruit of that leads to man.
Dave:
So getting back to where we were earlier, Tom, what’s the proof that any of this is true? Well, you’ll see it, we’ll put a curse on you and you’re going to die. Well, that’s their proof, okay? Well sometimes it works, curses will work. But, this is not God, this is not God’s blessing. This is Satanic, these are Satanic…this is a Satanic ritual, Santeria is exactly that.
Gary:
You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, Dave and Tom resume their weekly in-depth study of the Doctrine of Salvation, please stay tuned.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily.You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above.For more listening options, please see our Radio Page .
This is Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, answers to your questions in Contending for the Faith, and in Understanding the Scriptures, Dave and Tom will resume their discussion of God’s salvation. In addition to this radio program we publish a monthly newsletter which we make available free of charge. We also produce and distribute a wide variety of teaching materials including books in print, e-book and audio book formats, CD’s, DVD’s and other items to encourage the serious study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials, or to get a copy of today’s broadcast, write to us at PO Box 7019. Bend, Oregon 97708, call our toll free order number 877-882-4253, that’s 877-88Bible, or visit our website at www.thebereancall.org. If you would like a copy of this broadcast on compact disk, ask for Program #2108, and be sure to mention the call letters of this station. And if you would like to watch Dave and Tom, our weekly broadcast is available on DVD, ask about a subscription when you contact us. You can also download both audio and video podcast at our website. We’ll repeat this information at the end of the program.
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from The Washington Post, April 1, 2008, with a headline: “Yoga for Dogs, No Joke,” the following are excerpts. When Ashley Storm wants to chill she does yoga, and when she wants to help her Labrador mix relax she has Lokie join in, yes, a dog doing yoga, it’s called, “Doga.” People help their dogs into yoga poses and then rub or nuzzle them while the dogs stretch, or just hang out. They stretch naturally like we do when our yoga poses, says Storm, a yoga instructor and co-owner of Hot Yoga. It just feels good to them, it feels good to us, too. Doga is popular in New York City and London, England. In Doga poses the dogs look a lot like they do when they loll about and appear to be happy. It’s no coincidence, Storm says, that a common yoga stretch for people is called, “downward facing dog.” In the chair pose dogs sit on their hind legs with their front paws in the air while a person holds them from behind. In the chatter onga pose dogs lie on their abdomens while someone strokes their backs. In the savasona relaxation pose they lie on their backs while someone rubs their belly. Storm started doing Doga with Lokie about four years ago, shortly after a friend gave her a book about it. Lokie, a rescue dog who had been abused used to get so stressed out around strangers that she would shake, but after hanging around the yoga studio and doing Doga she seems far more relaxed and happy. Everyone says she’s a different dog, Storm says.
Tom:
Dave, there are so many ironies here. Those that you know and I know who are serious about Hinduism, their religion is being trashed here, as far as they are concerned. It’s been so commercialized. There’s no doubt about it that unless you took the idea that a dog had been formerly a person who is reincarnated as a dog, the whole idea of yoga to get you out of through a life span, get you moving up toward Brahman to Moksha, this is idiotic. Yet it’s very offensive. We talked earlier in the other segment about somebody offending somebody in another religion, this is an incredible offense.
Dave:
Tom, the whole idea of Westernizing yoga, that’s what they have done. First of all it is the heart of Hinduism, and the yoga instructors in America deny that. Oh no, this is not religion, its science. It was devised, (as you inferred a few minutes ago), as a means of escaping time, sense and the elements, from this world of illusion, and to achieve unity with Brahman the universe, the universal mind, or whatever. This is what it’s designed for. Yoga was not designed for relaxation, it was not designed to help your dog, for sure, but this is very serious stuff. It’s designed to reach an altered state of consciousness, where you then get in touch with the Hindu deities. That is Hindu demons, and this is why the real yoga books from India, they warn you, you could awaken the kundalini at any moment. Kundalini is like a serpent coiled three and a half times at the base of your spine. When you reach that trigger point—Bingo! It leaps up, spreads through the chakras, the force centers, and so forth, and therefore the real gurus and yogis say you’ve got to have someone with you, you’ve got to have someone more advance in this with you because you could totally freak out!
Tom:
Dave, let alone your dog going berserk on you. But seriously, we have a mutual friend who grew up in Poona, India, and she’s shocked. She’s lived in England as well, she’s English, and she says that when she was living in Poona, no one did yoga until they were elderly, because they were getting ready for that next rebirth, and so on. So, it was a process for dying, not for health and not for how we—you just can’t believe the many forms, or the application of the title yoga, how it is being applied today. There’s body sculpting yoga, we have a major in the Medical Corp in Iraq and she’s doing yoga with the troops, this is yoga for peace. I mean, Dave, this is insanity!
Dave:
It is.
Tom:
Not that we agree that yoga is a legitimate way to their claims, it’s a way to peace, and so on. So, we are not agreeing with yoga, but we are saying that here’s a religion, we believe it’s a false religion, nevertheless people are serious, they are being offended by this.
Dave:
Well, if you are a real guru and a real yogi, you practice the real yoga, you definitely get offended at the commercialization. Many of these people over here, they don’t even know what yoga is. They’ve never been to India, they’ve never had an initiation into kundalini. They are just comercializers of a spiritual practice, and that offends the real yogi, the real guru.
Tom:
Dave, could this commercialization, does it still open you up to what we know and what the yogis claim could be demonic influence?
Dave:
It could, depending upon what variety of it is, there are many different varieties out there.
Tom:
Well, we mentioned the Dalai Lama initiating people into kalachakra tantric yoga.
Dave:
Tantric yoga is the sexual yoga. But Tom, they are all aiming for the kundalini. That gives you the psychic powers, this is the ultimate goal of yoga, and it brings you into union with the universe.
This is a link to our weekly radio program Search the Scriptures Daily. You may listen to the program by clicking on the "mp3" link above. For more listening options, please see our Radio Page . The transcript for this program is as follows:
RELIGION IN THE NEWS
Now Religion in the News. A report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media. This week’s item is from Oprah.com, January 30, 2008, with a headline: Oprah chooses A New Earth as her new book club selection. The following are excerpts: “Being able to share this material with you is a gift, and part of the fulfillment of my life’s purpose.” Oprah Winfrey said on Wednesday January 30, 2008, as she revealed the 61st Ophra’s book club selection; A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle. She added, “It was an awakening for me that I want for you, too.” For the first time ever readers around the world will be able to participate in a free, live interactive classroom discussion led by Winfrey and Tolle. Each weekly class, (ten altogether), will correspond to a chapter from A New Earth, with the discussion focusing on the chapter’s themes. Published in 2005, A New Earth encourages a collective sense of commitment to changing the way we live, for people who want to make a difference. With the knowledge that we live in a time desperate for global change, the book by renown spiritual teacher Eckhart Tolle answers the question, “What can one person do to enact that change?” With clarity and in practical terms he gently leads readers to a new level of consciousness, awakening them to their lives’ purposes, and invited them to envision a new earth where peace and fellowship are the norm.
Tom:
Dave, here we have Oprah Winfrey involved in the promotion of a book when she, you know, she called it “an awakening for me that I want for you, too” and the people responded, the book sold about three and a half million copies right away. It’s right at the top of the list in places like Wal-mart, Target, and so on. So, it’s amazing the influence that this woman has. Now, what about Eckhart Tolle? Well, he’s a German, a philosopher, but really he’s a New Ager. His philosophy is uh Hinduism, a little Buddhism, and positive mental attitude kinds of stuff. But I want to go through and have you respond to some of the things that are being said about this book. Again, it calls him a renown spiritual teacher, and he answers questions that, supposedly he is gently leading readers to a new level of consciousness. Let’s start with that, Dave. Is that possible?
Dave:
Tom, we’ve heard this sort of thing in the New Age movement, and we heard it from the druggies. This was a consciousness revolution.
Tom:
Right.
Dave:
Altered states of consciousness, higher states of consciousness. How do you define that? I can tell you that no psychologist, no scientist, no neurologist can define states of consciousness. What does that mean? It doesn’t mean anything, Tom. What it means is, Oh, we have a clear perception of something, we’re more concerned about the earth, or whatever. It’s not a level of consciousness. But anyway, if they want to call it that. But that’s really a spurious description. A level of consciousness? That cannot be defined by any neurologist or psychologist.
Tom:
Well, Dave, we’ve heard this from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, from Muktananda, Rajneesh, from all of these, of course these would be Hindu gurus. Now we have a German who is into their philosophies but he’s sort of massaging it around so that it’s more acceptable, more attractive to the Western mentality.
Dave:
Right.
Tom:
But a new consciousness is—Oh wait a minute, boy, my level of consciousness now is not working, Dave, so now I’m going to get uh, more informed, and I’m going to be better enabled to perform and do the things that I need to do at this new level of consciousness. Well, we’ve heard that over and over and over again, yet it didn’t work for any of these gurus!
Dave:
Well, the drug movement was a consciousness revolution. They talked about higher states, or they talked about altered states of consciousness, ASC. But we’ve discussed that before; scientifically altered state, under drugs or meditation, that loosens the normal connection between you and your brain, allows another spirit to interpose itself. Tick off the neurons in the brain, create a universe of illusion, that where the psychedelic adventures come from, and so forth. So, it’s a delusion. Now if you’re talking—
Tom:
How did it work out, Dave, for these guys, Timothy Leary, and so on? What did it prove, what value was in it?
Dave:
Well, it destroyed their lives, if you want to say that.
Tom:
Well, it did, absolutely. Now, look what he’s offering here. He’s going to awaken us to life’s purpose, this is going to give us a vision, envision a new earth where peace and fellowship are the norm. This is pie in the sky through grand delusion, I think.
Dave:
Tom, we’re talking about life’s purpose! That’s a rational concept. It’s not a state of consciousness, whatever that may mean. This is something that I’ve got to understand, I’ve got to think about it. But consciousness, a state of consciousness? No.
Tom:
Well Dave, let’s pull it back to what Eckhart Tolle is about. He is a Buddhist, a Hindu, he doesn’t believe in a Creator God, so how can you have purpose, how can you have peace and fellowship when you don’t have a Creator God who created man in His own image, that we would have purpose and meaning, and those things. He’s throwing them out.
Dave:
Yeah, Tom, I’m sorry but this is just the same old thing recycled. I wonder why, why is Oprah jumping on this? She just had The Secret! I mean, that would give you anything you wanted, you could be whatever you wanted to be. How could this be any better? Why has this become such a revelation for her?
Tom:
Yeah, well—
Dave:
‘Cause we go from one thing to another.
Tom:
And we know this is all part of the same package.
Dave:
Right.
Gary:
You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Still ahead, Dave and Tom resume their weekly in-depth study of the Doctrine of Salvation, please stay tuned.
