Can Psychotherapy Cure Sin?

Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him.

The topic for this segment of our program, as it has been for the last few weeks, is “The Bible and Psychological Counseling.” Dave, as you know, we’re in the middle of producing a video that’s entitled The Bible and Psychology: Critical Questions and Crucial Answers. One of the major points we want to make in the video is how fundamentally wrong psychological counseling is in regard to what it teaches about the nature of man and what he needs to do to solve his problems of living.

And the kinds of problems of living that would cause a person to seek out a professional counselor are most often things such as relationship problems—a husband and wife, parents and children—anger, abuse situations, drinking problems, eating disorders, irrational fears, gambling problems, mood swings, sex-related problems, various and sundry so-called addictions, guilt, feelings of unhappiness, and almost anything that’s mentally, emotionally, or behaviorally destructive in a person’s life.

So, Dave, while we certainly would agree that such issues can be very serious in the lives of many people including Christians, nevertheless, I’d like to talk about three important biblical teachings primarily because they are utterly contrary to the psychological concepts presented by licensed psychotherapists, which should be reason enough for Christians to steer clear of psychological counselors.

The biblical teachings I’m referring to are: sin, salvation, and sanctification.

So, Dave, let’s begin with psychotherapy’s perspective on sin as opposed to what the Bible teaches.

Dave: Well, first of all, the psychotherapists, if you want to go back and trace them, were not Christians. These are the originators of psychology, psychological counseling. You could begin with Freud and Jung. They’re really anti-Christians. Jung, in fact, had a spirit guide, Philemon, or Philemon-the-demon, I call him, from which he got most of his ideas. They’re not dealing with sin at all. They’re dealing with what they call “behavior problems.” Of course, it began with Freud’s medical model. He didn’t even acknowledge that there was a soul or spirit. We were simply stimulus-response mechanisms, like Pavlov’s dog —learned responses, and you could go back and unlearn them, and traumatic experiences influenced us, and so forth. We were almost irrational beings.

They moved on from there. But Carl Rogers, for example, was in seminary in New York when he was converted to psychology, and he left Christianity—he said we have to “worship at the altar of self” instead of God.

Tom, the Bible says that sin is against God. David, in Psalm 51 said, after he had committed that horrible sin of adultery, he said, “Against thee, and thee only have I sinned and done this evil in thy sight.” Without God, there is no sin. If you want to believe in evolution, we’re just animals in the jungle, and there’s no moral reason for being kind to one another and so forth. The only reason would be, well, “society works a little better,” and so forth. So, you’re basically just trying to be happy, trying to get along with one another, not for moral reasons, not out of love and compassion, because that has no place in the animal kingdom—although some psychologists would acknowledge it and try to deal with it.

So, the Bible says sin is against God. Sin separates man from God. And the solution is to get back in a right relationship with God.

Tom: Mm-hmm. Now, Dave, before you go on to salvation, psychology, in order to work, if it has something it can’t deal with, such as sin, such as man with an evil heart and it’s perpetually evil, how can they solve the problem? They have no solution to the problem. So therefore, their view is that man is innately good, but something brings these problems into his life—something outside of him.

Dave: Well, Tom, you would be hard pressed from the history of mankind and from present activities and evil in this world, to say that man is innately good. No one is forcing the murderer to commit murder. No one is forcing the husband to physically abuse his wife. No one is forcing the rapist. There are no outside influences forcing the rapist to do what he does. Jesus said it many years ago, and He said it right, and you cannot improve upon it: “Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries,” and so forth. This is what defiles the man. Evil began in the heart of Satan, and he was raised in the presence of God. That’s all he knew. Evil began in the heart of Eve. It was selfishness. She wanted something for herself. Never mind what God said. Never mind the consequences to her husband, Adam. But she wanted something for herself.

So at the root of every problem in the world is self, and this is why Jesus said, “Deny self.” But the solution for the psychologist is we’ve got to “Improve self,” “Develop self,” “Exalt self,” somehow we’re going to take control of our lives, and so forth. It leaves God out of the whole picture.

Now, Tom, the Christian psychologist would deny many of them, that they take that approach—many Christian psychologists would talk about sin, but they…look, why would call it psychology if it is simply biblical counseling? If we get it all from the Bible, why do we call it psychology? Psychology has connotations; it has a history; it has its experts. So if you went to any library, university library or city library, look in every book on psychology, you would not find a listing in the index for “Christian” psychology. You would find humanistic, Freudian, Rogerian, Jungian, Behavioristic, Transpersonal…you would find several hundred psychologies, but not a listing for Christian psychology because there is no Christian who is the founder of a school of psychology known distinctly as “Christian” psychology.

So what is Christian psychology? It comes out of “Secular Psychology.” They’ve studied the same textbooks, they’ve taken the same tests, they’ve given the same answers. They’ve had to give the same answers on all of these exams…

I remember James Dobson was interviewing another Christian psychologist, Gary Collins, very well known and very highly regarded, and I believe at that time he was at Liberty University—I’m not sure where he is now…

Tom: He was also the president of the American Association of Christian Counselors.

Dave: Okay. So, I’ll never forget that on their program, they both agreed. They said, “Psychology is based upon the same principles as atheistic humanism.”

And I remember in Focus on the Family magazine that James Dobson said, “Psychology is a wonderful profession for any young person to aspire to provided their faith is strong enough to withstand the humanism to which they will be exposed.”

Now, that’s rather odd. Why must we go through humanistic training and study the humanists, the atheists, in order to learn how to counsel from the Bible? No, they’re not learning how to counsel from the Bible. They’re learning how to learn psychological principles, which are founded on a lie.

Tom: Dave, there’s another problem here. If you are a licensed therapist—psychotherapist—and you begin to introduce some of your own beliefs in the therapy, which you’re being paid for, the organization that has licensed you can claim that you’re being fraudulent because you have to go by the criteria set up by the licensing organization.

So there’s a dishonesty here if somebody says, “Oh, yeah, well, I’m a therapist and I just go by the Bible.” If they’re a licensed therapist, they cannot do that without committing fraud.

Dave: Tom, as I said, they take the same exams, they take the same courses, whether you’re a Christian or an atheist, if you’re going to be a psychologist or a psychiatrist, you have to pass the same test by the state; you are licensed by the same state, as you pointed out, the same state institutions, and therefore, you have to go by what you have been licensed to do.

Tom: And, Dave, that brings us back to these issues: what does the training that a psychotherapist has taken, what does it have to say about sin? It doesn’t say anything. It can’t go there. That’s my point. It has to be things that can be corrected within the individual, within their view of “self,” within their…how they look upon life, and so on.

Dave: Mm-hmm. Let me quote Thomas Szasz again, one of the world’s leading research psychiatrists. He said, “Do you want to know what we have done? We have turned the salvation of sinful souls into the cure of sick minds.” He said, “You Christians ought to take this back into the church. We have nothing to offer.”

But sadly, the church has begun to follow the world, and it’s taking their ideas, and then trying to integrate this atheistic humanism with the Bible, as though the Bible needed some help.

In other words, as we’ve pointed out before, the Bible is apparently insufficient. It may be infallible, but according to the Christian psychologist, it is insufficient. And I think, again, Gary Collins has spent considerable time, as have other Christian psychologists, trying to integrate psychology with the Bible. Now why would you need to do that? Apparently, the Bible is not sufficient. Paul didn’t know anything about psychology—certainly not what they’re talking about today. Nor did Jesus. It doesn’t enter into the Bible at all! And yet, as we’ve often quoted, Peter says that He has given us, “God has given us all things that pertain unto life [that would be everything about life] and godliness.” And the scripture tells us that the solution to all of the emotional problems, moral problems, whatever it may be, is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Christ has become my life; He’s supposed to live His life through me. We need to think about that more seriously.

Tom: Yeah, and, Dave, throughout the Scriptures—in the New Testament, throughout the epistles, throughout the gospels—we’re told how to live a life that is pleasing to God, how to address all these issues in our lives: moral, emotional, and so on; how to deal with them not in the flesh but by God’s Spirit and according to what He says will please Him.

Dave: And what is the solution? The fruit of the Spirit. Not the fruit of therapy, but the fruit of the Spirit. Now, this is miraculous. The Christian life is miraculous—is Christ living His life in us in the power of the Holy Spirit. Now, the problem is between man and God. The problem between Eve and God was disobedience, rebellion. And we’ve mentioned it often—you know what cancer is. Cancer is a cell that is not following the DNA, that is not following the instructions. Sin is like cancer on this earth. We are no longer following God’s instructions, now we have people who say, “Well, yeah, I want to but I need a little help from psychology,” and so forth.

So the problem that first beset Eve was separation from God. What did that do? That brought problems between Eve and Adam. And if I’m going to be in a good relationship with my brothers and sisters in Christ, or with those about me who are not Christians, I must first of all be in a right relationship with God.

But the psychologist can’t talk about that. They don’t believe in God. They don’t believe that sin is rebelling against God. So how can you have a solution if you deny the problem?

Tom: And, Dave, even if the person is a Christian who is a practicing psychotherapist and he’s licensed, he can’t take you there without going against the criteria set up by his licensing board. That’s my concern.

Dave: Furthermore, Tom, you’re the Christian psychologist and I’m your client. I’m not a Christian. And I come to you and I want some counsel. You start talking to me out of the Bible? And you’re charging me $150 an hour or whatever the going rate is? I’m upset! Look, I’m not a Christian. I don’t even believe the Bible. I didn’t come here to have you try to convert me! okay? So that’s the problem, regardless of the licensing, that’s another problem that they face.

Tom: That takes us to the next item. We started with sin. Now salvation. What can a psychotherapist address that has to do with the biblical view of salvation, which is…Dave! How critical is it? Salvation. Does a person need to know Christ in order to have these issues truly addressed and rectified in their life?

Dave: Tom, first of all, they need to be saved from sin and from self because there is a penalty: hell, the lake of fire, forever.

Tom: So, I don’t think a therapist is going to take you there.

Dave: No. So first of all, you’ve got to get right with God, and the only way to be right with God is through Jesus Christ, who is God, who became a man, didn’t cease to be God, and He died for our sins. He paid the penalty! It’s a matter of justice. So, you’ll never be right in your conscience; you’ll never at ease within yourself…

Tom: The guilt will not go away…

Dave: No. Except when you believe that Jesus Christ paid the full penalty for your sins. Now when He does that, okay —that’s eternity. But what about this life here and now? Well, the scripture says if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; all things have become new. His life has been transformed. Christ has become His life, and as Galatians:5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
See All... says, “The fruit of the Spirit…[now we’re indwelt by the Holy Spirit] is what? “Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, temperance, meekness; against such there is no law.” So, if I’m a new creature in Christ, I’m indwelt by the Holy Spirit, Christ himself is come to live in me, this is a basis for my life now! This governs how I treat my wife.

Tom: It’s the only way that these issues that we just talked about can be dealt with, Dave. There’s no other way!

Dave: Exactly. I either do it in my own strength —I either grit my teeth and try to do better; count to ten so I don’t fly into a rage, or whatever the problem is—a drinking problem—somehow I’m going to overcome this in my own strength. But the secret is, Paul said, “I am crucified with Christ…”

Tom: You know, Dave, my dad was a psychiatrist. And he had to address all these issues. He wasn’t a Christian, and as I look back on his life, what that did to him, dealing with the problems of everybody’s life, the best he could do would be like a furniture mover. You come in, all you can do is move them around, but you can’t get rid of these problems. You can’t clear your conscience. You can’t have a clean heart before man or before God, except that you do it God’s way.

Dave: Well, Tom, look, you either believe the Bible, you either believe in the God of the Bible, who tells us what our problem is, who tells us what we need, who gives us the only solution for eternity. Christ came and out of love died for our sins. We either accept this, and we believe what the Bible says…now, the Bible never, ever suggests that in spite of being born again, filled with the Spirit, and Christ living His life through you, nevertheless, the indwelling Christ needs some sort of help from Freud, or Jung, or Rogers, or Maslow—that the indwelling Christ needs some psychological counseling, and so forth.

So, you either believe that you become a new creature in Christ Jesus: we walk by faith, we trust the Lord, we commit ourselves to Him. You either believe that, or you say, “Well, I don’t think the Bible is entirely true,” as soon as you start down that path, well, where is it true and where is it not true? And you become the judge.

And people say, “Well, I’ve tried that. I tried the Bible,” you know. “I tried letting Christ live His life through me, but it doesn’t work.”

All right, then either you didn’t really commit yourself to Him, you didn’t really trust Him, you didn’t walk by faith, or Jesus Christ is a liar, and the Bible is not true. And just throw your whole faith out.

And, Tom, I have seen young men who went into psychology as a major, who became psychologists and so forth, psychiatrists—I’ve seen them lose their faith.

Tom: Dave, to look at this another way—you just started saying, once you begin to think, “Well, this didn’t work, and, you know, I tried the Bible. It didn’t work.” The question I have, “To whom are you going to turn?”

Jesus said to the disciples, “Are you also going to go away?” and Peter said, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

My question here is where is a person going to go? What makes psychotherapists the experts on raising your family? On relationships? On, you know, issues of drinking and gambling and moral issues, just as we’ve been saying? What makes them the experts, Dave?

Dave: Tom, it doesn’t work, first of all. The highest percentage of people of any profession that are under the care of psychiatrists that had marital problems, that divorced, sexual problems, and so forth, are the psychiatrists themselves! Now, I’m going to go to them for the solution? What do they have to offer?

Well, they’re going to give me the theories of godless people who couldn’t make it work in their own lives. There are psychiatrists going to psychiatrists, and they can’t straighten one another out.

Freud was a basket case. Freud was a fraud, in fact. Carl Jung —they used to correspond a bit—they’re really talking about themselves; they pretend that they’re talking about their patients. Freud couldn’t stop his cigar smoking, which gave him cancer and he eventually died of it.

Tom: His use of cocaine; his attitudes about his own mother. Unbelievable stuff!

Dave: Now, we’re going to go to these guys? These are the experts. No, I’m going to go to Jesus Christ and the Word of God.

Tom: Dave, we just have a few minutes left, but the third aspect here is sanctification. In other words, what will a psychiatrist bring to the issues of sin, salvation, and sanctification? How we live our lives. Are they the experts in living a life that healthy, even by their standards?

Dave: Well, as we just said, they can’t do it. Sanctification. Holiness. This is the solution. Sanctification means, literally, I am set apart by God to be a holy person of His use. This is the secret of sanctification. You’re not going to be sanctified if you want to run your own life. But psychotherapy is all about running your own life. How you can take control. How you can master these problems and so forth.

Tom: Again, according to their standards; not according to God’s standards, which is why we’re seeing so many things out there that are just accepted today. I mean, they’re more obvious than they seemed to be years ago, but they’re still not normal, not true.

Dave: Tom, I’m old enough to remember the beginnings of this thing. It really exploded after World War II. There was almost nothing before WWI, and it certainly wasn’t in seminaries, and I had secretaries, bookkeepers, so forth, who began to go to psychiatrists, psychologists—they became addicted to psychotherapy. They couldn’t get out of it. It never helped them. They were getting worse and worse.

Tom Preoccupied with self.

Dave: Yes, and then it came into our seminaries, and, Tom, it’s a growth industry. The number of psychiatric hospitals and psychiatric beds and the psychiatrists, and so forth, it’s just been exploding at an exponential rate! It has been called the only profession that creates the very problem for which it claims to have a cure.