Is God's Selection of a Special People Intolerance?

Tom: Thanks, Gary. In this our opening segment of Search the Scriptures, we are continuing our discussion of Dave Hunt’s latest book Judgment Day! Islam, Israel, and the Nations. We’re in chapter 12, titled “Some Important Distinctions.” What about evangelical Christians? Why do you, in the book, call them “Israel’s true friends?”

Dave: Well, Tom, let me just briefly comment on what you just said, because some people may have misunderstood, or don’t know: Why would this be of such importance for Jews to know the distinction between evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics? Because it was the Roman Catholic Church that led the Crusades. They had two crusades. They slaughtered Jews all across Europe. They chased the Jews into the synagogues, set it ablaze when they took Jerusalem. They’ve been persecuting Jews down through the centuries. It was the popes who first put the Jews in ghettos, made them wear an identifying…

Tom: That’s where the term comes from.

Dave: Right. Made them wear an identifying hat or badge. Hitler only copied what they were doing. In fact in this book Judgment Day, we quote Hitler talking to a couple of Catholic bishops and he says, “I’m only doing what your Church has done.” Well, it was actually Hitler’s Church, as well. He was never excommunicated, but…“I’m only doing what the Church has done for 1,500 years, only I’m going to finish the job.” Okay?

So, when you say “Christian” to a Jew, “Well, these are the people that have been persecuting us, killing us! Hitler was a Christian, Mussolini was a Christian,” and so forth. So this is a very important piece of information that we must get across to Jews. There is a big difference between evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics. 

Now, Tom, let me go back in my memory here briefly. I don’t think I’ve mentioned it on this program, but I was being interviewed on a radio program. We were talking about the distinction between Catholics and evangelicals, and we had a caller who said, “I want you to know that we Catholics do not agree with you evangelicals.” We’d been talking about the Rapture. He said, “We don’t believe in the Rapture,” and so forth. 

And I said, “Well, thank you very much for saying that, because when I try to tell people that there’s a big difference here, it’s very difficult to get people to believe it. They just kind of blur Catholics and Christians,” and so forth. No, they have defied the Bible, and they’ve defied God in their attitude toward Israel. 

Remember, it was 46 years after Israel declared its independence in 1948, until the Vatican in 1994 gave Israel recognition, even admitted that they existed. And you know that the Catholic Church says that they are the replacement of Israel. This is where replacement theology comes from, which unfortunately, many—well, some of them are evangelicals, in fact, Reformed theologians…you know, the Reformation carried over a lot of Catholicism, anti-Semitism, into the Protestant churches, so-called. 

But you asked a question: Well, then, why is it that evangelicals are Israel’s true friends? Because, being an evangelical myself, I believe we at least try to go by the Bible, and the Bible tells us that these are God’s chosen people. It says that over and over; 203 times God in the Bible is called the God of Israel. Nine times he’s called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. This is what God calls Himself, because if I say this is what He’s called in the Bible, well, these prophets who wrote the Bible claim to be inspired of God. So this is God Himself identifying Himself with these people. He has tied his integrity to Israel. If Israel ceases to exist, what do we make of the God of Israel? You couldn’t call him the God of Israel anymore, because Israel doesn’t even exist. 

And the Old Testament (the Tanakh to the Jew), the Torah, the first five books of Moses, contains hundreds and hundreds of promises, prophecies that God, although these people are under His severe judgment right now, He is disciplining them, because they turned away from Him. And what He said would happen, what Moses said would happen, has happened: they were cast out of the land. They’ve been scattered all over the world; they’ve been persecuted and hated and killed like no other people. But God Himself said He would preserve them; He would not let them be destroyed, and in the last days He would bring them back into their land, the land He gave to them, and there He would usher in the final act of history.

Tom: Dave, if the Scriptures, if the Bible, if God’s Word is indeed God’s Word, and He says very simply, “Those who bless Israel, I will bless. Those who curse Israel, I will curse,” I mean, what more do you need? Evangelicals, if they believe that God’s Word is indeed God’s Word, they have to go by that, don’t they?

Dave: You would think so, Tom. But, however, just as there is no Arab map anywhere in this world that shows the existence of Israel, so many of these people say that God is finished with Israel, there’s no Israel anymore, so we don’t have to bless Israel, because Israel doesn’t exist. I think we quoted, didn’t we…

Tom: From the National Catholic Reporter, because, you know, as we said, evangelicals, if they believe the Bible, ought to be the friends of Israel. Yet there is a growing kind of a tolerance among all religions, and so on and so forth, that will not allow Israel to stand out as God’s chosen people, and that God has a purpose for them. 

Again, the National Catholic Reporter says, “Only in a theology rooted in a God who loves all people,” this is the tolerance that I am talking about, “can there be genuine reconciliation, justice, and peace. Christians, Muslims, and Jews, people of the three Abrahamic faiths, must reject a God who chooses one people against all others, for in this God lies the ultimate mandate for genocide.”

Dave: Yeah, so they have just defied God, because He says it repeatedly. He chose Abraham, Isaac, Jacob; He chose these people. I mean, it’s in the Bible over and over and over. Now, these people, the Catholic Reporter and Roman Catholics, are defying God. They’re going against what He said. They’re saying, “Well, you couldn’t choose a special people, because you’ve got to be fair to everybody.” But everybody can’t be His chosen people. There is a land involved. That’s one of the first things we learn when we’re introduced to Abraham, the end of Genesis 11. The beginning of Genesis 12, God says, “Leave your family and your friends, and come on to a land that I will show you. And I’m going to give this land to you and to your descendants.” 

Now, I am not a physical descendant of Abraham, and I don’t think you are either, Tom. So there is a physical people. 

Let’s just turn to Romans:9:1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
See All... for a minute, and see what Paul has to say there. Paul says: “I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh.” 

Now, there is such a thing as relatives and ancestors, and Paul is saying, “These people, we have common ancestors. Our ancestry goes back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” Okay? 

Now listen to what he says: “Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.” Now, you can’t escape that these are a special people, okay? They have a special ancestry, and the Messiah was going to be one of them. That’s why Satan has stirred up anti-Semitism: If he could destroy the Jews, no Messiah. So, Tom, it is shocking. 

But anyway, I was going to read—now, you quoted the National Catholic Reporter. Let me read an open letter—it’s called “An Open Letter To Evangelicals.” We may have read it a couple of weeks ago, but it bears repeating. “An Open Letter to Evangelicals and Other Interested Parties, the People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel.” This was put out by the Knox Seminary in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. D. James Kennedy is the founder, chancellor, president, and professor of evangelism. And this letter was signed by more than 70 leading so-called “evangelicals.” Okay, now we’re making liars out of us! How can the evangelicals be Israel’s best friends? Not these evangelicals! This is Reformation, this is Calvinism. Okay? 

Let me quote just two sections—section 6: “The inheritance promises that God gave to Abraham do not apply to any particular ethnic group, but to the church of Jesus Christ, the true Israel.” Now, that’s the tolerance that you’re talking about. Let’s not be intolerant and say just the church of Jesus Christ, oh no, or the Jews, but it applies to everybody. Well, they are saying the church of Jesus Christ, the true Israel. In other words, we have replaced Israel; Christians have replaced Israel. That’s not true, that’s not biblical. 

Section 9: “The entitlement of any one ethnic or religious group to territory in the Middle East called the Holy Land cannot be supported by Scripture. In fact, the land promises specific to Israel in the Old Testament were fulfilled under Joshua.” 

Well, Tom, I’m sure we commented on this, but let me just mention it again: If you went to Jeremiah:23:9Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness.
See All..., God says, speaking through Jeremiah, “It will no longer be said, Blessed be the Lord who brought His people from the land of Egypt into the Promised Land, but, Blessed be the Lord who brought His people from all the nations where He had scattered them back into this land.” Now, you tell me how that was fulfilled under Joshua. Under Joshua they came from Egypt into this land. 

And God says, “One day you’re not even going to be thinking about that, you are going to be praising the God who brought His people from all the nations where He had scattered them and brought them back into the land.” 

Now, it simply isn’t true that these were all fulfilled under Joshua. What about Zechariah 12, you know: “I’ll make Jerusalem a cup of trembling,” and so forth. What about the return of Christ to Jerusalem—was that fulfilled under Joshua? I mean, Tom, this is such a ridiculous statement. I don’t know how intelligent people can make it! But these are the professors at Knox Seminary, Calvinistic seminary. So this is a mindset that has captured many evangelicals. 

But as you just said, evangelicals who go by the Bible, that’s how I would define a real evangelical, because Calvinists have a lot of other problems, as well. They have to be the friends of Israel.

Tom: Dave, that certainly has to be the basis. But what we’re seeing now is that even though we use the term “evangelicals,” we find that professing Christians and even true believers, evangelicals, they’re being weaned off the Word of God. There are distortions out there. There’s the pressure of “tolerance,” of having to accept this and accept that, things that they’re hearing from the pulpit… There’s a reluctance, even laziness, whatever it might be, to go to the Word and check out what they’re being told, what they’re being taught. And there’s such a movement—again, Dave, going back to the “tolerance” issue, you talked about Knox Seminary, evangelicals, Reformed theologians…many, many young evangelicals idolize a rock group called U2, led by Bono. Now, I know this doesn’t mean anything to you, because you don’t follow this. But, Dave, there’s—I can’t think of a more influential individual with regard to young people than Bono of U2. As a matter of fact, he’s been offered the President of the World Bank. He may receive…

Dave: You’re kidding.

Tom: No, I’m not.

Dave: A rock musician has been offered the President of the World Bank?

Tom: Yes. You have to understand who this guy is…

Dave: Who offered it to him?

Tom: Well, let me keep going with this. He may win a Nobel Peace Prize. When there’s a big event, whether it be the Super Bowl or one of the BCS Bowls, he was—they had his music group there. He is so influential, because he seems to evangelicals to represent Christianity.

Dave: Really?

Tom: Really. Now at one of his concerts, incredibly large concerts, he had the audience chanting this with him: “Jesus, Jew, Mohammed, all true. Jesus, Jew, Mohammed, all true.” And they repeated it over and over and over again. For what reason? So that we could have peace, Dave, so that we could have reconciliation among all religions. And as I said, many evangelicals, young people, almost idolize this man and this music.

Dave: And that is as insane as you can get, because Mohammed said every Jew must be killed. And Mohammed’s dying words were, “May Allah curse the Christians and the Jews.” Now, how are you going to put them together in one? It can’t be done. So this is the kind of insanity that the world accepts.

Tom: But not just the world, the church. This is what’s concerning me. On page 266 of your book, Dave, you have a heading, “‘Islam and Christians Join Hands’?” 

“Muslims are busy duping the West through promoting alleged ‘solidarity and understanding’ between Muslims and Christians.”

Dave: Yes.

Tom: Solidarity, Dave?

Dave: My wife and I were in Hamilton, New Zealand, when this even occurred. I didn’t know about it until afterwards, otherwise I would have probably been there and voiced a few objections. But it was called…

Tom: This is the “Islam Awareness” that you’re referring to?

Dave: This was called “Islam Awareness Week,” and there were Anglican leaders, you know, there were business and political leaders there that gathered to learn about Islam. And some of the things they said were just incredible. Here’s Rev. Dennis Clow—he said, “I learned a lot about Islam faith.” Well, in fact, he didn’t. 

Another one of the Christian leaders who was there said, “Why, I was amazed to learn that there’s more in the Qur’an about Jesus than there is about Muhammad.” Well, I would dispute that having read the Qur’an fairly carefully. 

But nobody seemingly had enough sense to ask, “Well, what does the Qur’an say about Jesus?” They were just caught up in the euphoria of this unity, this tolerance for all peoples and all faiths. But what the Qur’an says about Jesus: He’s not God; He’s not the Son of God; He didn’t die for our sins on the cross, someone died in His place; He didn’t resurrect. I mean, all of the foundation of the Christian faith is swept aside by Islam and by the Qur’an, and yet they’re so thrilled: “Oh, we can get together now!” 

And, Tom, it’s really maddening, because when you try to give facts, no one wants to hear them. It reminds me always of John:8:45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
See All... where Jesus said to the Rabbis—and I guess there were many ordinary Jews there, as well, a whole crowd—He said, “Because I tell you the truth, you believe me not.” In other words, you’ll believe any lie; the one thing you don’t want is the truth. And, Tom, I find that all over the world. People do not want to hear. 

It’s like the little thing that we—what was it, the little saying we have on desks, and some business men have them on their desks, you know, in the business world: “Don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.” 

And I find in talking with people all over the world, most people believe what they want to believe. They don’t want to have their beliefs changed, even if their beliefs are wrong. They’re not interested in truth, and that concerns me a great deal because, you know, 2 Thessalonians:2:10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
See All..., it says that God is going to send this world a strong delusion. These are the people left behind at the Rapture. He’s going to send them a strong delusion to believe the lie, because they refused to receive the love of the truth. So we have to be careful that we really want the truth. 

You know, Tom, you and I have tried to do a little writing, and I can tell you that my wife is my chief critic. I don’t know about your wife…

Tom: Yeah, Peg doesn’t lose any marks that way, either.

Dave: And, you know, you write something, and you want people to compliment you. You want them to say, “Wow, that’s wonderful stuff.” But if you want some honesty, then give it to someone who really loves you, who really cares for you…

Tom: Mm-hmm. Except I remember in college, Dave, we had an art teacher who was—he was the toughest guy going, and he used to literally have some of his students, mostly girls, crying, and his line was, “Hey, look, if you want somebody to say something good about it, take it home and show it to your mother.”

Dave: Oh, yeah. Well, that’s a mother, but not the wife, I don’t think. 

But, anyway, Tom, evangelical Christians have a history of standing up for Israel, and we give some of that here in the book. I go back to 1878—this is William E. Blackstone. He was descended from the prominent 18th century English jurist William Blackstone. And from studying the Bible, he just became convinced the Jewish people would indeed be restored to their land, and he wrote a 96-page book entitled Jesus Is Coming, later enlarged to 256 pages. It was translated into more than 42 languages, including Hebrew and Yiddish. And he said, “Why do you believe in God? The Jew!” The Jew. Because what God said would happen to them has happened to them. 

Now, D. James Kennedy and these people are pulling that argument right out from under us. “Oh, the Jews are finished.” What? What God said about them isn’t going to take place? Well, then God is a liar. God could hardly punish Satan for his lies. 

Anyway, he promoted Israel, and he went to the president, he went to others, the Supreme Court chief justice…

Tom: This is Blackstone?

Dave: Right. And Speaker of the House of Representatives. He got a lot of these people together. They presented a petition to President Benjamin Harrison on March 5, 1891, and they requested him to use his good offices and influence with the Czar, the Sultan, Queen Victoria, other European rulers to convene an international conference that would sympathetically consider “the condition of the Israelites and their claims to Palestine as their ancient home….” 

And here’s part of his argument—he said, “Why not give Palestine,” of course, we’ve explained that’s not Palestine, this is Israel, but, “why not give Palestine back to them again? According to God’s distribution of nations, it’s their home, an inalienable possession from which they were expelled by force. Why shall not the powers which under the treaty of Berlin in 1878—gave Bulgaria to the Bulgarians and Serbia to the Serbians. Why shouldn’t they give Israel back to the Jews? Let us now restore them to the land of which they were so cruelly despoiled by our Roman ancestors.” 

And another one that we’ve mentioned, his name was Carl Hermann Voss. These guys were stirring up support, and he said, “The Arabs today have more than a million square miles. The Jews have none. Out of the last war the Arabs gained freedom and independence for Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and later Transjordan…” and so forth. And he goes on and he says, “How about doing the same thing for the Jews that you’ve done for these other people?” Tragically, there is a deep prejudice against Israel.

Tom: Tragically as well, Dave, those who are doing such to Israel are going to reap what they’ve sown.

Dave: Exactly.

Tom: You can look at England today, Great Britain, as an example.

Dave: Lost its empire. It’s exactly what God said.