Search the Scriptures Daily Program #1602a:

Welcome to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call featuring Dave Hunt and T. A. McMahon.  I’m Gary Carmichael, we’re glad you could be with us.  Coming up in today’s broadcast in our Understanding the Scriptures segment, Dave and Tom will resume their exploration of the Gospel of John, and “Which Jews believed on Jesus?’”   In Religion in the News, “A New, Credible Jesus,” we’ll take a look at that story and examine the question:  “Can we get together on Ecumenism?”   We hope you can stay with us.  Our ministry, The Berean Call, offers many teaching materials including books, tracts, audio and video tapes and copies of our weekly broadcast on tape or compact disc.  You may also subscribe to our monthly newsletter, which we offer free of charge.  We will let you know how to order later in the program.  Now, this week’s cover article.  We continue with our series of discussions based on Dave Hunt’s book from Harvest House with the 43 ^rd installment of In Defense of the Faith and along with Dave Hunt, here is T. A. McMahon.

 

            Tom:

Thanks, Gary .  You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to him.   For a number of months now we’ve been going through Dave Hunt’s book In Defense of the Faith and we’ve been gleaning questions which Dave has been asked over his many years of ministry.   These are questions regarding God’s Word which is the basis of the Christian faith.   Any other basis you can think of Dave?

 

            Dave:

No, Peter says we are born-again by the Word of God and “…this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you,” (I Peter 1:25 ).   Paul says, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth to the Jew first and also to the Greek,” (Romans 1:16 ).   So that’s how we come to know the Lord, that’s how we are reconciled to him, or born-again.

 

            Tom:

Dave, the subject of our first question and my guess is that we will only have time for this one.   Because it’s a biggie in the life of every Christian.   So I’ll jump right to it.   Jesus promised, “If two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 18:19 ).   I have never seen it demonstrated that any two Christians getting together can have anything from God upon which they agree.   Was Christ’s promise, then, not true?

 

            Dave:

Well Tom, before we get into that, we have that strange word in here.   This is the King James.   “If two of you shall agree as touching anything…” and what that means is “concerning”.   That’s an old English term.  

 

            Tom:

Sure, it doesn’t mean a point of contact.

 

            Dave:

No, unfortunately we have that teaching now.   Kenneth Hagen, Copeland, Oral Roberts, all of these people, teach we must touch something together.   So Oral Roberts, for example has sent out an outline of his hand and if you put your hand on his hand that’s the point of contact they call it, and then we are touching something together.   Or reach out and touch the television—I am sorry, I don’t want to offend anyone, but that’s just ignorance.   That is not what it says.   It says nothing about touching anything.   Furthermore, that borders on sacramentalism, you know like the Catholic Church.   Some physical means of getting a spiritual blessing from God.

 

            Tom:

Straight occultism Dave.   Never mind sacramentalism.   This is the occult, witchcraft.  

 

            Dave:

Well it just says if two of you shall agree concerning.   That’s a modern translation.   So forget that touching stuff and any one that tells you that, they have really gone astray.   Maybe they’ve gone astray on some other things as well.   Now we have the question about—now look Tom, let’s you and I—let’s agree together that we could use about $10 million dollars here in the ministry.   Let’s just agree on that and then we’ll ask God to give it to us and he’ll give it to us!

 

            Tom:

So we’ve got him strong-armed.   I mean if this is what the Word says and we apply it, I mean that’s our methodology, so he’s got to do what we say.   I don’t think so, and I pray not.   I pray not.

 

            Dave:

Right—well wouldn’t this be some situation if just two Christians could get together and they could have anything they wanted?   Well then what does it mean?   Well this is one of the conditions of prayer, but there are many other conditions of prayer.  

 

            Tom:

Well Dave, before you get to that—God who revealed this to us, these teachings on prayer, he’s the one that tells us about prayer.   And as you said, there are conditions.   But as we mentioned earlier, if we try to take this over, sort of—

 

            Dave:

Manipulate—

 

            Tom:

Manipulate God and so on, and there are just two of us here, let’s say we are agreeing, but there are two over here who are disagreeing with us, and they are praying with regard to the same thing.   Now we’ve got problems, because if some people think that it’s our will, that God is turning his power over to us, with regard to our will, now we have big time problems.  

 

            Dave:

Yes, it’s no longer God’s universe, it’s ours.   And we’re running the show—

 

            Tom:

Yes, but how many others of us are there?   What’s the population of the world today?

 

            Dave:

Six billion.   

 

            Tom:

Six billion.   Rebels.

 

            Dave:

Then the next step is people say, “Yes, but you do this.”   For example, Kenneth Hagen says that Christ personally appeared to him [and] gave him four principles, which if you follow these, you can always get what you want from God.   And in fact, that’s in a little booklet titled, “How to Write Your Own Ticket with God.”   Now, I don’t want to write my own ticket with God because God is smarter than I am.   Isn’t that a big concession Tom?   He loves me.   He knows what’s best.   Now Yonggi Cho for example:   Now here’s a man that has the largest church in the world.   Who am I to criticize him, but he teaches that you must visualize what you are praying for and if you don’t visualize it and get a clear vision, image of it in your mind, then you can’t get it.   You can’t have faith unless you visualize it.   Where does the Bible say that?   Again you have an occult technique.   So what people are looking for—

 

            Tom:

Well Dave, let’s make it a little bit more moderate.   What about Pat Robertson?   What about the Law of Reciprocity that he teaches in the—what is it, the Secret Kingdom ?  

 

            Dave:

The Secret Kingdom , yes, run by their eight laws and so forth and you follow these laws and you can always get what you want.   Now Jesus said for example, your heavenly Father knows what you have need of before you ask.   Okay, I would rather get what God knows I need rather than trying to impose upon him what I want.   That is the problem.   So the first thing that I’ve got to recognize is that when it comes to prayer, I must pray according to God’s will.   He’s in charge of the universe.   I want him to be in charge.   After all it is his universe.   He created it.

 

            Tom:

Let me quote I John:5:14Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee., “And this is the confidence that if we ask anything according to his will he heareth us.”   I’ll go onto verse 15.   “And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.”  

 

            Dave:

See Tom, there are people who are teaching seminars on prayer and it’s like prayer is a religious technique to get our own way.   We decide what we want and somehow we’re going to get God to work it out for us.   Now, I would just seriously ask any listeners out there right now, do you want your will, or do you want God’s will?   Now supposing that your will conflicts with God’s will.   Do you want to impose your will on God?   Would you say you know better, you know what’s going to happen tomorrow and next year?   You know the future; therefore you know what would be best for you?   Therefore you want what you want and even though God says no, that wouldn’t be the right thing?   You are going to insist on having your own way?   The Bible says of the children of Israel in the Old Testament: “He gave them the desire of their heart, but sent leanness into their soul.”   In other words, “Okay, if that’s what you guys want, I’ll let you have it.”

 

            Tom:

Go for it.

 

            Dave:

But it’s going to spiritually destroy you.  

 

            Tom:

Right.

 

            Dave:

So Tom, we have to stop just for a moment and ask ourselves, “Do I want God’s will?   Do I really and truly want God’s will in my life?”   I can remember—I’ve probably mentioned this before Tom, but you can forgive an old man with memory problems.   But I remember when Ruth and I—

 

            Tom:

I wish I had your memory Dave!

 

            Dave:

I remember when Ruth and I were first married.   That’s 52 years ago coming up in June.   Getting on our knees and we really, we said, “Lord we just want your will, whatever you want.”   And then you kind of pull back and you get a thought, “Well as soon as we surrender to the Lord, he’s going to ship us off to China to be martyred by the Communists or something like that.”   Well God loves us.   His way is best.   Job said, “Though he slay me, yet will I trust him.”   So that’s pretty elementary.   Am I going to trust him?   Do I really want his way?   Okay, now two of us get together and we agree.   Well that’s step one.   “It will be given you of your Father—well then as you just read; it must be according to his will.   He’s not going to give me something that’s not according to his will.  

 

            Tom:

Dave, I think the point that you made earlier that there are those who do manipulate, but I think your exhortation here is really check your heart in this.   Because sometimes I don’t even know what I’m doing here.   But I do know the flesh wants something.   My proclivity is toward what I desire and I may even couch it to deceive myself to [say] “I’ve got this scripture here and I’m praying according to this scripture,” and so on and so forth, but bottom line is my heart really doesn’t want what God wants.   Dave, I remember praying the Lord’s will that if he would just—with a situation that had to do—I think it had to do with a trip.   Whether I was going to go on this trip or not.   And it was not just a vacation or something like that.   It had to do with an opportunity that I could go to a certain place where I wanted to go and I didn’t know if I was going to be a part of this group that was going.   And it was related to missions and so on.   And I said, “Lord if it’s your will open that door for me and if it’s not your will close that door.”   He closed the door.   Now do you think I was a happy camper?   I wasn’t a happy camper!   That’s what I’m referring to.

 

            Dave:

Did you submit to his will in closing the door?

 

            Tom:

Well, it was taken out of my hands.   But was I thrilled that God’s will was done and the door was closed and I didn’t get to go?   Honestly, I wasn’t.

 

            Dave:

That’s the sad part of it.

 

            Tom:

But I’ve learned.   I’ve grown since then.

 

            Dave:

We learn some hard lessons.   The young man gets on his knees and says, “Oh God, please lead me to the woman that you’ve chosen to be my wife, my partner for life.”   And he pauses for a minute and he adds, “But please let it be Joanne.”   Well, it’s tough.   How’s God going to lead him to the woman that God has chosen when he’s already got his sights set on someone else?   So that’s a problem in our lives.   We learn some tough lessons.   Tom, I remember, well what was I?   I think I was still in college.   Summer vacation and you know how I like to fish.   Well with my two artificial hips, it’s a little more difficult now, but in those days I really was a fanatic at trout fishing in the Sierras.   And here was a dear elderly brother, I mean a man of God and he asked me and a close friend of mine to go on a preaching tour with him.   You know what?   No, we had already set our sites on a backpacking trip in the high Sierras.   We were going to catch golden trout and so forth.   Tom, I can tell you we never had such a miserable trip in our lives.   So many mishaps, led astray by different people who advised to go here and there and so forth.   Well but the point is for eternity, we want God’s will.   And we want God’s will because we love him, because he created this universe.   He created us, he redeemed us; he bought us with his blood.   We are not our own.   How could we then not want him to have his way and if I really believe he loves me, then surely what he brings to pass is going to be best.    

 

            Tom:

Dave, also the Lord teaches us in these things and I am sure many in our listening audience have had the same kinds of experiences that we’ve had.   But once you do submit to God’s will, even if it is something that the flesh doesn’t really want to do, but as you submit, God opens your eyes.   Sometimes we think we have a little bit of foresight and certainly we have 20/20 hindsight, but we don’t have either.   But when God opens our eyes we can see what he’s doing both as it is taking place, and we can also see from a greater distance what he has done and there is nothing better than that Dave.

 

            Dave:

It’s thrilling to submit to the Lord, really desire his will, and then see him work it out.   Now not always the way we would like but it brings great joy.

 

            Tom:

It’s a taste of heaven.   You can’t—

 

            Dave:

Yes, it’s thrilling to see what God can do.   I’ve mentioned it many times; I’ll just say it again.   I can prove the existence of God by who he sits me next to on airplanes.   Just a week ago, who sits next to me but a dear young man and he just broke up a 7½ year relationship with a Mormon young lady.   And he was open to hear the truth, you know.

 

            Tom:

And this was—they were dating, or going together?

 

            Dave:

Well, I don’t know what the relationship was.   Probably they were living together.   I would presume that 7½ years, you know?   And he just couldn’t buy the— he went to Salt Lake City and they wooed him and so forth.   He just couldn’t buy it and he didn’t know why, but there was something about Mormonism.   And I said to him, “Just tell me what do you think would be the odds of all the millions of people on airplanes right now, that you having broken a 7½ relationship with a Mormon young lady would sit next to a man who could tell you all about Mormonism, who’s written a book and done a video and so forth?   Just tell me what would the odds be?   I see God do this all the time and it is thrilling.   But whatever he does—and sometimes I sit next to a guy and he’s got the earphones on and his nose in a book, or he has gone to sleep for the whole thing, so that makes it all the more wonderful when it works out the other way.   But to put ourselves in God’s hands, nothing makes more sense.   He really does love us.  

 

            Tom:

Now Dave you mentioned conditions.   I’ve got some verses before me that I want to get into, but let’s start with Matthew—as a condition, Matthew:21:22And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive., “And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.”  

 

            Dave:

Well let’s talk about that for a minute Tom.   That’s like Mark 11, where he says, “If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed you can say to this mountain be thou removed.”   Now just think about it.   Whatever you ask in faith, believing.   On what basis would I believe that God is going to move this mountain?   I’ve got a mountain and it shields the sun until late in the day. I would like to move that thing.  

 

            Tom:

Yes, and I have some property just on the other side and I don’t want that mountain moved so I’m—or I want it moved south, you want it to go north.

 

            Dave:

Right.

 

            Tom:

So who’s going to win out here Dave?  

 

            Dave:

But here’s a little different angle on this.

 

            Tom:

Okay.

 

            Dave:

Now how am I going to get the faith?   Where do I get the faith?   People think faith, make a positive confession.   Confess that mountain will move.   Somehow faith is some kind of thing I have to get a handle on this and if I can talk myself into believing it— People think that if I can just believe that what I am praying for will happen—well then you don’t need God.   If you can make things happen by believing they will happen, then you don’t need God.   Faith is believing that God will do it.   Jesus in Mark 11 said, “Have faith in God.”   Now you said, “Whatsoever you ask in faith, believe that you will receive it, you will have it.   Well, believe—my belief, my faith is that God will do this.   I couldn’t possibly believe that God would do it unless I knew it was his will.   See prayer really moves me into a condition and a position where I can know and fulfill God’s will.   That’s the main thing about prayer.   It is not a technique to get my own way.   But it’s to draw me into a closer relationship with Christ and with the Lord and become the instrument of his will.   I love what George Mueller said.   People said you must be a man of great faith.   He said, “No I’m a man of very little faith, but it’s in a great God!”   And that’s why Jesus said you only need a grain of mustard seed’s of faith to move a mountain.   Wow!   To have a tree uproot and throw it into the sea, a grain of mustard seed’s worth?   Yes, because it isn’t faith that does it, it’s God that does it and if you are in touch with him and you know his will, then it will happen.   But people are trying to get faith—if I could get more faith, if I could get enough faith.   No, you only need a grain of mustard seed’s worth, but it must be in accordance with God’s will.   Sorry Tom, go on, you’ve got more verses there.

 

            Tom:

Well I’ve got more conditions.   John:15:7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you., “If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.”   That looks like carte blanche there, huh?

 

            Dave:

Well again, if I’m abiding in him, then what I desire is his will.   So you can ask what you will, it will be done because you are in touch with God now.   You are abiding in Christ and your will coincides with his.   Isn’t that a wonderful position to be in?  

 

            Tom:

It’s hard to fathom.   I mean it’s wonderful at the same time, Lord could my heart, could my mind really be so joined with your heart and your mind in a situation that I would pray, not just with confidence, but with joy knowing fully that God is going to do these things?             

 

            Dave:

When Elijah went up on Mt. Carmel and he asked fire to come down from heaven, he wasn’t just hoping that it might happen.   He said, “Lord bring the fire down from heaven that they may know that I am your servant and I have done this according to your will.”   That’s the secret of it.  

 

            Tom:

Okay, let’s go on.   James:4:3Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts., “Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.”

 

            Dave:

Well Tom, I can imagine that some people out there listening are getting upset.   “I mean these guys are just ruining prayer for me.   I’ve got some things I want to pray for—I’d like to get a raise, or I’d like to get a bigger house, or we’d like to go there, or we’d like to do this—these guys are just ruining prayer.   They are saying you have to pray according to God’s will?   You can only have what God wants you to have?   This just ruins the whole thing!   I want to make a positive confession, I want to confess that this is going to happen; I want to get what I want—

 

            Tom:

And they’ve been taught that it’s weak minded; it’s not faith at all if you can’t really claim it and confess it and know exactly what you want and get into the details of it.   The color of the car, whatever it might be.

 

            Dave:

Tom it’s elementary—whether a person, you know the color of the car and so forth.   When you visualize a car, you are just seeing the gross outline of that thing in your mind.   It is made up of atoms, molecules, subatomic particles.   The structure of this thing—you’re going to bring this into existence by visualizing the gross outline of this thing and you’re going to tell God you know, what you want.   Well Tom, we probably made the point, but it’s not easy.   I can remember in my life, it’s many, many years ago now, coming to the point where I had to surrender totally to God.   That was a struggle.  

 

            Tom:

Yes.

 

            Dave:

Because you know, you see people come forward—“I’m going to surrender to the Lord, I’m going to dedicate my life and then they come back 2 weeks later and re-dedicate and re-rededicate.   The problem was they were the heroes and God was the villain.   They’re going to knuckle down and live this straight-laced, narrow-minded, sober and sad, self-denying Christian life even though they could think of something a whole lot better.   But they’re going to do it because if they don’t God will send them to hell, or whatever.   No, they are dishonoring God; I want to submit to his will because his will is best.   He really loves me.   Now we have to come to that point before we really understand prayer.

 

            Tom:

Dave, the final one—we are about out of time—but this is 1 John:3:22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight., “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.”

 

            Dave:

Wow, you are really abiding in him now.

 

            Tom:

Right and commandments—we are not talking about under the law.   It’s everything that Jesus said.   It’s all through the scriptures.   It’s what pleases him.   That’s the way the verse ends.   And he said “Abide in me.”   That’s the heart of this.  

 

            Dave:

Tom I want to abide in Christ.   I tell him over and over and as I say it, I know that it means whatever he wills.   Lord, I want your will.   I want to be what you want me to be.   I want to be your servant.   I want to be a chosen vessel.   I want to be a man of God.   I want you to use me to your glory.   You created me, you redeemed me, now Lord what did you have in mind?   Lord, let me fulfill that because if I miss that, I’ve missed the whole purpose for which he has created me and called me—redeemed me.   Lord, I want you to have your way.   I want you to fulfill in me your purpose and your plan for my life.   Tom, that’s not a sacrifice.   That’s honoring God and it’s the only intelligent thing a person could do.

 

            Tom:

Dave, the verse ends: “…do those things that are pleasing in his sight.”   There is nothing greater than to know—just as a little child knows he is pleasing his parents, his father, his mother and so on—to know, to really know that you’re pleasing him.   Wow!

 

            Dave:

Amen.