Is Saudi Arabia the Model of Islam?

Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. In this segment of Search the Scriptures Daily, we’re going through Dave Hunt’s new book Judgment Day! Islam, Israel, and the Nations. Last week we were midway through chapter 7 titled, “Hatred’s Peace.” And as we noted, contrary to the propaganda from representatives of Islam and swallowed and presented by news media, Islam is not and never was a religion of peace. Furthermore, the peace Muslims are seeking involves the annihilation of Israel and bringing the world into submission to Islam and Allah.

Dave: Exactly.

Tom: Dave, last week we were discussing “Saudi Arabia: Model of True Islam.” I think most people, when they think of Saudi Arabia, they know that our troops have been over there; but somehow, in their mind’s eye, they don’t see Saudi Arabia as more than just a land with a lot of oil and desert and some sheikhs running around, you know, in their garb and so on. But how could this be a model of true Islam?

Dave: First of all, Tom, before I answer that specifically, Saudi Arabia is one of our close allies. We provide them with military equipment and train them. We defended them from Saddam Hussein, and they are with us in the coalition fighting terrorism. But at the same time, they have bankrolled Al-Qaeda to about half a billion dollars. They have bankrolled the terrorists in so-called “Palestine” with billions of dollars. They foment hatred for the West. We document it in the book. 

Recently an organization went into, I think, some 80 or more mosques in the United States, which are built, basically, with money from Saudi Arabia. What we pay at the pump for our gasoline is building mosques all over the world and financing terrorists, okay? They found a document from Saudi Arabia in these mosques fomenting hatred of the West as well as hatred of Israel, and declaring that Islam must triumph; it must take over, okay?

Tom: We’re going to get into this big time. Putting aside the religious aspect, it’s a dictatorship. Do they want democracy? What would happen to Saudi Arabia if democracy became their way of life? What would happen to it?

Dave: Well, Tom, we’re finding out in Afghanistan and Iraq these people, really, they don’t know what to do with democracy. That is a concept that, if it were really practiced, would destroy Islam, because Islam is a religious dictatorship. There’s no separation between church and state. Now, Jesus set that for the Christian world. He said, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s,” and He made a clear distinction, as Paul did, between the governments of this world and the believers who meet together in His name in churches and in homes and so forth.

So the imams, the sheiks, they have to have supremacy. Now, it’s very hard for that in a democracy, and we are experiencing this - we’re finding out. For example, 15 of the 19 northern states in Nigeria (we’ve probably mentioned this several times, but it bears repeating) have adopted sharia. That’s Islamic law. The result has been the burning down of hundreds of churches, the murder of thousands of Christians or any other non-Muslim, okay? So democracy in Saudi Arabia  - it’s very difficult to conceive of it, because another thing - not just a religious standpoint… But as we mentioned, I think, last week, that Ibn Saud had between 200-300 wives, as a result, there are literally thousands of princes and princesses who live like princes and princesses, and the ruling authority in Saudi Arabia would have to step aside. They would not be voted in, that’s for sure. How could they give up their monopoly, their control, and their wealth, and turn this over to the will of the people? Maybe it might happen after some years in Iraq or Afghanistan, although you know the opposition that there is to that on the part of the entire Muslim world. But you couldn’t do it. 

Let me just mention what’s it like - now, I often say we don’t need to debate about Islam, we don’t need to argue, you don’t even need to research, just go to Saudi Arabia. No Jew can set foot in Saudi Arabia. That’s not a very democratic idea from the very beginning. 

Tom: Although there have been one or two exceptions because of circumstances.

Dave: Yeah, those exceptions would be Lieberman and Kissinger.

Tom: Kissinger, mm-hmm.

Dave: But every Jew was killed in Arabia by Muhammad (every Jew that didn’t escape). No Jew is allowed to set foot in Saudi Arabia. Now, how are you going to change that? And you read part of an interview last week on TV - hatred of Jews…they are taught this. It would take I don’t know how many generations to recover from that, if ever. In the meantime, God is going to intervene.

Tom: Dave, just a little aside here: explain to our audience what happened when we had our United States soldiers, who are Jewish, when they were over in the Gulf.

Dave: Yeah, we document that for you again in the book. They pleaded with us: Would we come and rescue them from Saddam Hussein? This was in 1990, but they said, “You can’t bring any Jews.” And our government, our military, said, “The Jews are an integral part of our military units. They have trained with us and they are coming. You look the other way. We’re not leaving them home.” 

And then we thought: Wait a minute, if a Jew, you know, who’s got written on his dog tags “Jewish,” if he falls into the hands - if he’s captured by the Iraqis, they will literally skin him alive, torture…I mean, it would be horrible. So we came up - this is the military, brilliant idea - we came up with a new category called “Protestant B,” and that was stamped on the dog tags of Jewish military, although some of them refused - said, “No, we’re going to trust the God of Israel to protect us.” 

Now, if you wanted to document this, go on the web - you know, Saudi Arabia never had a tourist business before. You can only go there if you were working for an oil company or you were a nurse in a hospital, doctor, whatever. Now they’ve gotten the bright idea - they’re going to be like the rest of the world and they're going to have a tourist department, a tourist bureau. Well, go on the web and see what they say: Anyone is welcome but a Jew. And if you have a stamp from Israel on your passport, you cannot get into Saudi Arabia.

But, Tom, let me just go on. You have to be a Muslim to be a citizen in Saudi Arabia. There’s no distinction between church and state, as we mentioned. Religious law rules the entire country. No non-Muslim place of worship may be built. The practice of any religion except Islam is forbidden. No one would dare to carry a Bible openly on the street. Even a secret Bible study in one’s home could mean prison or expulsion from the country for any foreigner. For a Muslim it would mean death. There are none of the freedoms Western democracies hold dear. Freedom of speech and the media, the press, of conscience, of religion, genuine vote, and so forth, and it would be this way in America, in Europe, and in every other country wherever Islam could take over, and this is what they intend to do, because Allah commanded this and so did Muhammad.

Tom: Mm-hmm. Dave, I thought it was really interesting: a number of weeks ago a representative of the United States, a woman - I don’t remember her name - but the press story said that she went to Saudi Arabia to talk to women about women’s rights. They can’t drive a car over there, there are certain things…

Dave: They can’t leave the home without permission from her husband, and being accompanied by a male escort. 

Tom: Right. The gist of the article was that she was stunned to hear the reaction from some of the women to whom she spoke. They said, “No, we like it this way. We think it’s fine. It’s no big problem that we can’t drive a car.” We’re talking about women who were educated, who maybe were doctors or scientists and so on. What is it? Were they just kind of a mouthpiece for the government, or were they somebody who was so used to this way of life that it was okay?

Dave: Tom, we used to travel behind the Iron Curtain in the Iron Curtain days. Trying to have an interview, a public interview…

Tom: Oh, yeah. That’s what this was.

Dave: That’s right, with a member of the Soviet Union. They would be terrified. They couldn’t possibly tell you the truth. You’re not going to learn the truth. I mean, I have talked to so many of these people - in secret, they wouldn’t dare say these things. So of course these women wouldn’t dare. They could be disciplined by their husbands; they could be divorced. All they have to do is say “I divorce you” three times and you’re out. 

But there are none of the freedoms that we hold dear and that accompany a democracy, and the democracy is supposed to protect them. So Islam couldn’t possibly thrive where there’s freedom, because Islam is spread by the sword. You have the choice of conversion to Islam or death. 

Now, people say, “Well, we don’t see that happening in America.” Well, no, because they can’t do it in America. But go to Nigeria, go to Algeria, go to Indonesia, go to Malaysia, and see what the real situation is there. Go to Sudan where they’ve murdered about two million in southern Sudan. This is Islam wherever it has the power to do it, and don’t judge Islam by what it seems to be in America or, you could say, in Britain. Yes, they’re finding out in Britain, they’re finding out in France, in Holland, and so forth, what Islam really is, bit by bit.

Tom: Well, Dave, but doesn’t Islam have a universal declaration of human rights?

Dave: Yeah, Tom, that’s kind of a joke, and again, we…

Tom: I mean, it’s official. There is an official document.

Dave: Oh, yes. That was a reaction to the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. By the way, article 18 of that declaration says, “There will be freedom of the press, freedom of speech, anyone can have any religion; they are free to practice it in public,” and so forth, and Saudi Arabia signed that part of it. They didn’t sign every article, but they signed article 18 particularly. Now, this is hypocrisy of Himalayan proportions, and the United Nations goes along with it! They know - look, other countries like Cuba and Zimbabwe and (you name them!) Libya and so forth, they also signed the Declaration of Human Rights (the UN), but they don’t practice it. What is the point of this?

But anyway, so that they wouldn’t seem to be lagging behind the rest of the world, the Muslims got together and they signed a Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights. It was proudly pronounced at the International Conference on the Prophet Muhammad and His Message that was held in London in April, 1980. It was adopted by Muslim nations September 19, 1981, and listen to part of what it says: “Islam gave to mankind an ideal code of human rights 14 centuries ago.” Human rights? I mean, you either submit to them or you are killed! 

We talk, for example, in the book about dhimmi, a dhimmi. Now, if you’re a pagan, you have the choice of conversion to Islam or death. If you are among the people of the Book - that is, Jews or Christians - then if you don’t convert, you have the right to be what’s called a dhimmi. Now, that is about a fifth or sixth or tenth class citizen. You must be humiliated; you must pay heavy taxes; you are restricted in everything, but you are under the protection of Islam. Now, these are the rights that Islam gives? It says, “Based on the Qur’an and the Surah,” that is, the teachings and examples of Muhammad, this is human rights, it held up sharia - this declaration held up sharia, Islamic law - as the ideal guarantee of human freedom! True Muslims really mean this, and they intend to force this freedom on the rest of the world. It’s like they say, Tom, a little variation of what I said last week: “Islam is freedom, and if you refuse to believe that, we’ll force you into submission to Islam.”

Tom: Dave, you write: “Muslims call human rights and personal freedom as advocated in the West the most perilous and repugnant threat facing the world.” 

Now, you have a quote here from an Islamic source - I’m going to read it: “America as the leading super power and the sole power broker in the world is leading this onslaught against Islam under the slogans of democracy, pluralism, human rights, and market economy. The most perilous of these slogans is that of human rights, one of the cornerstones of her foreign policy. She utilizes this slogan as a pretext to interfere in other countries’ affairs and deems human rights as a law that must be abided by. Personal freedom is the most repugnant aspect of these freedoms, for according to them, it means that a man is free to choose the behavior he likes, such as being homosexual, or fornicating, or taking intoxicants. Thus, debauchery is a moral constitution amongst the followers of this ideology.”

Dave: Well, this is what they believe, and, Tom, in some ways you would sympathize with them. When they come to America and they see the pornography, some of it openly displayed - they see the use of women to entice men, even on TV, in our commercials and so forth…but on the other hand, when the princes come, the businessmen from Saudi Arabia come to the West, they get drunk; they engage in all of the sex and so forth that’s offered over here, which they supposedly keep from over there.

Now, we know…

Tom: Also, isn’t this a taste of paradise here?

Dave: Ah, thank you, Tom; yes, because this is what you’re offered in paradise! They’re not supposed to drink alcoholic beverages on earth, but in paradise, the rivers run with wine, and they have 72 minimum - and it could be hundreds - of these virgins to have sex with as they please.

But, Tom, actually, we have the records - we don’t have the records of all of them, but we have the records proving that at least some of the terrorists who flew those planes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, they were heavy drinkers also. They were indulging in everything that the West had to offer, these “sins” of the West they complain about. Now, Tom, I don’t know whether…

Tom: But jihad and their death, that was going to wipe the slate clean! They’re going to get in…

Dave: Yeah. Tom, we’re not sure, you know - I can’t be certain that they didn’t do this just to put up a cover, as a cover, but I rather doubt it. 

Tom: Yeah.

Dave: Islam has the most vicious record, and we give the history. Let me just list some of the things: they say Islam is peace; we can go back, and we take you back to the book…You know, all the way from France to China they slaughtered millions - I’m not exaggerating - millions of people. But what about more recently? There are more revolutions, assassinations, and terrorist acts in Muslim countries, Muslim against Muslim, then in all the rest of the world combined. During the 1940s, Yasser Arafat (he was getting his training in terrorism) was a zealous member of Amin al-Husseini’s Qassamite group, which fought the rival Arab Nashashibi family (these were all good Muslims) in a blood feud. Even their unified efforts to destroy Israel in 1947, in ’48, before it could be born, Muslims were at odds with one another. Islam’s “peace” was unable to unite them. 

Let me just jump ahead: Syria attacked its Muslim neighbor Jordan April 13, 1957. June 10, 1958, at Jordan’s request, 2,000 British paratroopers (these are all non-Muslim pagans) came to the rescue, landing in Amman to protect King Hussein from threats by Iraq and Egypt. 

In 1960, Jordan’s prime minister and 10 other officials were killed by a bomb planted by Nasser’s agents - he was the head of Egypt - intended for the king. The president of Tunisia accused Nasser, at that time considered to be the leader of the Arab world, of sending secret agents to assassinate him. 

In 1979, Hussein’s forces killed some 2,000 PLO guerrillas and thousands of Palestinian civilians in driving the PLO into Lebanon. The Ayatollah Khomeini, who took over Iran in a bloody coup, was known to have plotted the overthrow of other Muslim nations, including the Persian Gulf states. 

From 1948 to 1973, there were 80 revolutions in the Islamic world, 30 of them successful, including the murder of 22 heads of state. We go on and we document it for you. 

Not to forget Anwar Sadat, who was murdered by his own troops, the Muslim brotherhood.

In 1971, East Pakistan rebelled against West Pakistan. They were both Muslim states and became Bangladesh. 

In 1979 (this I find most interesting, Tom) a dissonant group of Muslims seized the holy mosque in Mecca with the Kaaba in its center. The Saudi national guard was unable to cope with the situation, so the Saudis turned to the West for help. Of course, only Muslims are allowed in Mecca, and therefore, the troops that came to get rid of these terrorists, they disguised themselves in Saudi uniforms. It was Muslim fighting Muslim, and they had to look to the pagans in the West to rescue them, and that happens over and over. 

And yet - I’m sorry - President Bush keeps repeating, and our leaders keep repeating, and our religious leaders keep repeating, “Islam is peace. This is a good religion. These terrorists are merely fanatics.” That is not so, and, Tom, we document it so thoroughly in this book, and I wish this book could get out to our political religious leaders, and get into the Muslim world. I’ve been praying for years that that Islamic curtain would be torn down. They ought to be embarrassed by the truth.

Tom: Dave, the point of this being fanatics and extremists and so on from the Qur’an - and you don’t give them all, because there are more than a hundred verses in the Qur’an that talk about spreading Islam by the sword. Let me quote a couple: “To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah, whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great value,” and that’s Surah 4:74.

“Then when the sacred months have past, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them. But if they repent and establish worship of Allah and pay the poor tax [this was dhimmi tax that you were mentioning], then leave their way free in brutal, humiliating submission under Muslim rule.” And that’s Surah 9:5.

“Fight against such of those who have been given the scripture [that is, the Bible] as believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day until they pay tribute readily, being brought low. Therefore, when ye meet unbelievers in battle, smite at their necks, and when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them. Those who are slain in the way of Allah, he will never let their deeds be lost.” That’s Surah 47:4.

“Truly Allah loves those who fight in his cause in battle array,” and that’s Surah 61:4.

I mean, we could go on and on and on.

Dave: Well, Tom, there is peace in Jesus Christ. First of all, there has to be peace with God, between man and God, and only Christ accomplished that, and only then can there be peace among fellows. You do not have this record of mayhem and murder and continual strife among Christians who are true Christians that you have down through history among true Muslims.