T. A. McMahon & Carl Kerby (Part 2)

Program Description:

Tom McMahon and Carl Kerby of Reasons for Hope continue their discussion on the problems of reaching today's youth with the true gospel.

Transcript:

Tom: Thanks, Gary. This is our second week with Carl Kerby. Carl's ministry is Reasons for Hope, and we've been dealing with not just evolution-creation, but his concern, my concern, for the upcoming generation of believers. As we mentioned last week, serious issues -- we have a generation that's basically been raised on entertainment, those who are in the church or involved with the youth ministry and so on. 

You know, Carl, I think that, well, one of the toughest callings, if you will, in terms of the church is a youth pastor. You know, they have a great amount of responsibility. They're expected to keep the young people growing and following the ways of the Lord, but it also falls back on numbers. If you try and preach and teach the Word, well, for some people it's not entertaining. I have a friend who's a youth pastor and his line is, "What brings them in keeps them in." And sadly, throughout the church they've been brought in using entertainment, games, all of these kinds of things. But his belief is, yes, what brings them in keeps them in, and it's his goal to bring them in with the Word of God.

Now, if you think about that, if you can get them excited about the Word of God and, Carl, I don't know any thing, any book -- I don't know any condition that's more exciting than the Word of God. A situation in particular: how many books do we have at home that are written by God? Well, I know one: the Bible. And therefore, the excitement that can be generated from that, if you're committed to it -- I remember you telling me one time about leadership, looking for young people who are leaders. Now, did I hear that from you Carl? Or is...

Tom: Carl, that's the issue. Looking to the upcoming generation -- yeah, they appreciate us older dudes that have the opportunity to preach and teach them, but to find someone -- a young man, a young woman, who is committed to the Lord, who has a heart for the Word of God -- these are the ones who are really going to make disciples of disciples, right?They are disciples of the Lord, and they are going to make disciples, which is -- that's one of the solutions. We could go over a number of things that we could encourage, certainly. You know, we talked about some of it last week. But for the young people themselves, where they're committed, where they're growing in the Lord, where they're a leader, following the Lord, that's huge. It's really important.

Carl: Well, the younger generation are going to reach their generation better than you and I can. So I always feel like if I can get a bunch of kids, and I get like, say, one percent of them fired up, well, that one percent is going to reach their peers better than I will. So that's what that whole book I told you about last week that I read that really changed my whole focus on not worrying about numbers, but worrying about obedience. If you're obedient in ministry, you're successful. Quit worrying about numbers, man, get obedient to the Lord Jesus Christ and it's amazing what He will accomplish through somebody who's obedient.

Tom: Now, Carl, we talked about many issues last week related to creation-evolution. But Reasons for Hope, you guys are doing a, I think, a bang-up job in other areas that are affecting, adversely affecting, our youth. Tell us about that.

Tom: (Laughing) Right.

Carl: ...and it was like, "Man, here's somebody else that's seeing that the impact that the media's having and is aware of it..." Because I didn't know your background or anything. We just met and I read your book and like, bang! Here we go! This is an important issue. 

Well, my son five years ago started bringing me videogame stuff. I'm not a gamer. And so, he kept bringing me this stuff but I couldn't talk about it because it's not my world. And when I finally brought him on staff a year ago, I told him, I said, "You've got to talk about this." And he has been, and it's blowing parents' minds because they don't have a clue what's going in that world. They're allowing their children to play these games, and the messages that are in there -- and we're not just talking sex and violence; we're talking how Christians are depicted, how the Bible is depicted, how Jesus is depicted -- it will blow your mind.

Tom: So it's propaganda.

Carl: Oh, absolutely. And you think about it, now everybody's all concerned about, "Oh, the violence! The violence! The violence in the videogames is impacting the kids!"

Excuse me, if you're going to admit that the violence in the videogames is impacting this younger generation, well guess what? Then these other messages on how Christians are depicted, how the Bible is depicted, how God is depicted -- those are also impacting the generation, and you can't have it both ways. And those are everywhere in very, very popular games. So he's bringing that out, teaching parents how to critically evaluate those messages. 

We're also dealing with -- got a new guy coming onboard, Lord willing, the end of this year, fulltime. He's a Cuban-American, and he's [a] Spanish speaker because we've got to reach out the Hispanic community, in my mind, in a big way. But he is really -- he loves the philosophical stuff and the debating stuff, which is not my gift, but he's really, really good, because he handles the philosophical stuff: "Well, if God created everything, then who created God?" "Is God a moral monster?" And these are questions that we're getting every time we go out. He handles those extremely well, but he handles them in a very good way, because he's been in a Christian school for fifteen years, so he knows how to communicate so normal people understand it...

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Carl: Right.

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Carl: ...you know, they get these messages all the time, and they don't get answers to them, and so they just kind of either don't deal with it, get quiet, or they just quit believing at all. So I said, "Well, we're going to go after it. I think it's a bunch of bunk, so we're going to debunk the bunk." So it's very fast-paced, animated style, three-and-a-half to four minutes, but taking on a topic and then just drilling it, and showing how you start with the Word of God to get answers. It's intentionally more information than most people can get in one sitting, but done in a way that people will go back and watch them again.

Tom: Right.

Carl: So we've had huge success with those, especially with the high schoolers because they're now taking them and showing them to their friends and to their teachers and that's been very cool.

Tom: And what about their parents?

Tom: Exactly. Exactly. Carl, that brings me to another point. I've been hanging around you for a long time now, and I know your heart for evangelism. Now, just based on the example that you have, that you just gave -- all right, the young people get excited about what you're showing them, what you're doing, all right, and then they go home, and they share it with their parents because they're excited. Now the parents get excited about it, and so on. Well, I have seen that happen with regard to young people getting saved. I mean, look, this isn't a slam-dunk; it's not always easy, but I've seen an incredible amount of success with regard to the young people ministering to their parents -- you know, if their lives are changed, because they've come to the Lord, you don't think the parents are going to take note?

Carl: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Tom: So consequently, I have seen young people evangelize their parents, and to the extent of huge numbers. So at least that is an option. That's a way of going about it. But share your heart for evangelism.

Carl: Well, I tell you, that's why we are where we are, Tom. I just made the decision that I've got to go after younger generation, because we're losing 50-88 percent of the kids, and everybody's complaining about the church, and the numbers are declining -- well, guess what? I'm tired of going out on the street trying to get them back in the church. I want to get them before they leave. And so my head was if you get the young folks excited, they will evangelize their parents, because parents see changes in their lives. They're going to see it big time. My heart is this, is that -- I watched a...I did a talk called "Evangelism 101: Ten Things a Christian Can Learn about Evangelism from an Atheist." and in there, there's a video that many, many people have seen by Mr. Penn Jillette, who shares an encounter that somebody walked up, gave him the gift of the Bible, and just shared with him.

Tom: Wait, wait -- Penn Jillette?

Carl: Oh, yeah!

Tom: Is this a godly man, a Christian who, you know, who we would just be in awe of? Tell us about him.

Tom: Now, this is Penn Jillette. He's the one saying this.

Carl: Penn Jillette! And so, that was such a knife in my heart that here I am, I'm ready to fight and argue and drop -- "Man, you want to make a claim about the Bible? You want to talk about this? I'm going to argue..." and it was like, but how many people did I truly, genuinely love enough to say, "You know what? Here's the bottom line: there's a heaven, there's a hell. We're going to spend eternity somewhere, and instead of me arguing with you about carbon dating, how about we just talk about this? There's an eternity. Jesus Christ is who He claims to be. He died for you, He loves you that much, He doesn't want you to spend eternity in hell, He wants you to spend it with Him," and turn the conversation away from an argument to the fact that -- "Look, let me share the gospel with you." And yes, we need to have answers, but we also need to share the gospel with people, because the answers aren't enough.

Tom: Right. And I want to go back to Penn Jillette again. So this man steps up right in his face, gives him a Bible...

Carl: Yup.

Tom: ...was that what happened? And now, this guy who is anti-Christ, anti-God, he's impressed! For what reason?

Carl: Oh, yeah. Because this guy lived what he said he believed. And I mean, that goes to that point we made in the first episode here of hypocrisy -- or maybe it was this one, I can't remember when -- but you can know it, but if you don't live it, it's hypocrisy and they see it. 

Here's a neat follow-up to that, Tom. I had a lady contact me about three months ago, four months ago, and she said, "I heard your talk on that, I bought Mr. Penn a Bible because he got a Gideon's pocket edition of the Bible and it's only the Psalms and the New Testament, and he needed the whole Bible. I bought him..." (she's not a wealthy lady) "...I bought him the best Bible that I could: leather-bound, had his name put on there, and didn't know -- didn't have a clue how I was going to get it to him." She suffers from MS. A lady comes to her and says, "Hey, they've got a doctor in New York who's perfecting some surgery on MS! You want to come with me?" She goes. The doctor cancels her appointment. She's got to stay an extra three days, so she's like, "Okay, what am I going to do? Three days here...let's go to a show on Broadway." She goes to the show; [at] intermission she gets a drink. She gets a Coke, the guy says, "Eight dollars for a coke." She's like, "Eight dollars!" She hears a voice behind her. The guy laughs and says, "That's the most expensive Coke you'll probably ever buy." Penn Jillette.

Tom: Wow.

Tom: Wow. Wow. We can't fathom things like that until the Lord gives us a boldness. But it really shouldn't be a boldness, it should be an everyday affair. We want to bring people into eternity with us! That's the thing about Christianity that people say, "Well, you know, it's kind of -- you guys are exclusive, and..." Hey, we're nothing. The Bible is the Word of God. It's the truth. Jesus said, "Sanctify them by thy truth. Thy Word is truth." You know, He's the One who said, "I'm the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me." This isn't something you made up, Carl, or I made up, or something like that. But the point is they say, "Well, it's so exclusive." Wait a minute -- it's for everyone!

Carl: Everyone.

Tom: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son..." and we want as many who are willing -- I mean that's all you bring to it, right, Carl? If you're willing, you'll have the gift. Carl, I was thirty-some years a Roman Catholic. I never knew that salvation was a gift, and that it could only be received by faith. Well, that's the message: for those who are willing to come to Him.

Carl: I tell you, I put it like this: it's like eating garlic. Now, I like garlic, but you don't like it that I like garlic, especially when we're in England in that little tiny car...

Tom: (Laughing)

Carl: ...because you just stink, okay? You can drink all the Listerine you want, you can shower all you want, you can put on all the deodorant you want. You still stink. That's the way the Holy Spirit should be coming out of us, man (chuckles). You can't hide it! It exudes from us, and that's my goal in life. I turn it over to Him and try -- I fail, but, "Lord, here am I. Send me."

Tom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's true. To some people, it is a stench, but -- to those who are rejecting it, it's a stench, but to those who are receiving it or will receive it, it's glory. It's eternal life with Christ. Carl, what's the game plan ahead for Reasons for Hope? Where do you see the Lord developing your ministry and directing it? Now, having said that, I've got to bring you back to something which I was really excited about, I want to know the further development of it: you mentioned in our last program that you take people to museums.

Carl: Yeah.

Tom: Now what about this app? Tell people about that.

Carl: Oh, man, I so badly want to create a...

Tom: But at least share the, you know, the idea with people, because I think it's fantastic!

Carl: Yeah, it's called "Zoos, Museums, and Aquariums: Turning Zoos, Museums and Aquariums into Weapons for Mass Instruction."

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Carl: So all these talks that I give and all the information that we've acquired over the years on the various exhibits on animals and all these neat things -- imagine having in your hand a virtual museum, a virtual zoo, a virtual aquarium so that you become the hero to your child. You start leading tours through these places with all the information that's compiled so that you walk into the museum and you're looking at Lucy, the supposed evolutionary ancestor, and you have all the video clips right there, showing you what they actually found, showing what they did to change the bones to fit the reconstruction that you're going to see in the museum. They're not the same. Then all the animal features, unique design features on these animals, just standing there teaching your children, "Look at the giraffe. You think that evolved from some groundhog-type animal? A two-and-a-half foot long heart, three-inch thick muscle walls? You know, this is an amazing animal!" 

So having all that information so that now you're leading tours through these things from a biblical perspective because again, know what the world teaches. We shouldn't run from it, we need to know it better than the world. But then look at the actual exhibit that our tax dollars are paying for to indoctrinate and lie to our children with, and then use their exhibits to share the Word of God. "Here's what the Word of God says, and here's what we see in the world around us, and what we see in the world screams that God did what He said that He did."

Tom: Yeah. I mean, I think that's stunning in terms of its simplicity. So I'm walking into a museum, and it's one that you've already pegged, you've got the information on there, but instead of following a guide through, who's giving me bogus information about this stuff, I've got the truth. Now, it's not that you're trying to debunk all of this stuff, but you're trying to set the record straight. So Carl, I just think it's fantastic, and my hope and prayer is that you'll be able to create this and then use it.So, again, how do you see the Lord developing your ministry and where is He taking you guys?

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Carl: So, we're just trying to keep it as real as possible, keeping it in the Word of God, and getting people excited about their faith, man.

Tom: Exactly. And Carl, you know, because we've talked a lot about this, this is what we're doing at The Berean Call: we are attempting to reach the upcoming generation. You know, we have a treasury of material that Dave Hunt -- this is Dave Hunt's legacy here, and he's no longer able to function that way. But we have the material. Now the deal is, how are we going to get it to this upcoming generation? Now, I love -- how many kids do you have, Carl?

Carl: Two.

Tom: Two? Well, I've got five, okay? (Chuckles) These are my... ages 24-30s, and these are my counselors with regard to their generation. Now, I have no greater joy than to see my children walking in the truth, so it's not like I'm just picking on young people. These are young people who really know the Lord and really have the same concern that I have, so they're my chief counsel with regard to how to reach their peers.

Carl: Yup.

Carl: All things, yup.

Tom: ...and if He's leading Reasons for Hope and The Berean Call in this direction, He'll pull it off. But folks, we really need your prayers. We really need you to be on the same plane with us with regard to a heart for youth, a heart for this next generation because, Carl, you said it last week, I'll repeat it now, they're going to have to deal with things that if the Lord tarries -- you know we keep crying out "Maranatha" -- but if the Lord tarries, they're going to have to deal with issues that [are] unfathomable with regard to those of us who have been there, done that, have dealt with a lot of the issues.

Carl: Amen.

Tom: So, Carl, thanks for being with us, and love you, brother, and can't wait to get together with you!

Carl: Hey, same here. Love you guys, and just be encouraged: I get a lot of responses from folks telling me how much they love Berean Call, so you guys keep on keeping on, and stay bold.

Tom: Amen.