You are listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. Coming up, Dave and Tom continue their weekly in-depth examination of the doctrine of salvation, so please stay with us.
Now, “Contending for the Faith”. In this regular feature of our program, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and subscribers. Here’s this week question: I am confused about the Joint Declaration on Justification between Lutherans and Catholics. I thought that the Roman Catholic Church could not change a decree of one of it’s infallible counsels. Are they actually rejecting or removing the anathemas found in the documents of the Council of Trent which are against salvation by faith alone?
Tom: Dave, this is a question that has a lot of heads spinning here, because for a number of years we—you know, at least through this ministry when we’ve discussed Roman Catholicism, we’ve mentioned that the Councils are infallible and the Church cannot overturn an infallible decree. So how can they—how can the Catholics sign a document with Lutherans basically removing the anathemas.
Dave: They haven’t removed the anathemas. They have supposedly signed the Joint Declaration…I guess maybe they have. I have not read it in detail.
Tom: Yeah, let me give you a—this is from the LA Times—an article on this. It says, “Lutherans and Catholics are poised to declare that the central issue leading to the Reformation no longer divides the two faiths. Now the two sides are ready to say that in the contemporary teaching of each church, they see authentic Christian faith. The 16th century division on the issue including the condemnations each side hurled at the other during the increasingly bitter dispute no longer exists,” both churches say.
Here's a quote: “Developments have taken place which would not only make possible, but also require the churches to examine the divisive questions and condemnations and see them in a new light...” That’s interesting. “…the declaration says.”
Now Dave, here’s one of the key passages. “Together we confess by grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.” Now does that statement deny the statements of Trent and others?
Dave: I don’t think it does, Tom. Just without even reading this lengthy—it’s a lengthy document. Without trying to unravel it, just a couple of common sense things. First of all, they’ve been discussing this for 30 years.
Tom: Right.
Dave: Intensely for the last 10 years. Now, if justification by faith is so complicated that theologians have to discuss it for 30 years in order to come to some agreement, who could possibly be saved? The Bible says it’s very simple. That a child can understand—so that right away tells me something’s wrong. Secondly, it doesn’t change any Roman Catholic doctrine! They’re not revising the Council of Trent, they’re not revising Vatican II, they’re not revising the catechism, or the code of canon law. So what they’ve done is to somehow massage words around to make is seem like they’re in agreement, when in fact, nothing has changed. It doesn’t change the practice of one billion Roman Catholics; it doesn’t stop—they’re not going to stop wearing scapulars now. Are Lutherans going to start wearing scapulars?
Tom: Right. Purgatory is not going to go away.
Dave: The scapular says on one end of it “whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer enteral fire.” Well, now are Lutherans going to start believing that? Or are Catholics going to deny that? Are they going to throw away the metals? The miraculous metal of Our Lady who stands with her heel on the serpent’s head? Are they going to change—for example, the very first page of Vatican II says, “It is through the sacred liturgy especially in the sacrifice of the eucharist that the work of our redemption is accomplished.”
Tom: Mmhmm.
Dave: Are they going to change that? Are they going to change the mass which says that Christ becomes this—or this little wafer becomes Christ? And that he is being perpetually emulated on the altars? That’s not going to change. So what they are saying is what Trent always said, that it’s through faith, it’s by grace, of course. The Catholic Church always said that, but there’s a lot more involved.
Tom: Well, there’s a lot more involved and this is part of the problem. That there are terms that evangelicals accept and understand. For example, faith for an evangelical is THE faith. The content of what the scriptures have to say. But for a Roman Catholic, THE faith are all of the teachings of the Church. So when a Catholic is saved by faith, which an evangelical would get excited about, what the evangelical doesn’t understand is it’s faith in ALL of the teaching of the Church. All the things that you’ve mentioned. So here, when we go back to this document, “together we confess by grace alone”, you say, well see? They don’t believe in meritorious works. No, if you understand Catholic teaching it is works which collaborate with grace.
Dave: Mmhmm.
Tom: So you still need meritorious works and you still need to believe in the teaching—for those Catholics listening to us right now, all we’re saying is that there is distinction between what evangelicals believe and Roman Catholics believe and it seems in some of these documents and some of these ecumenical agreements they’re fuzzing—they’re making fuzzy the distinctions that are there and really affect one’s eternal destiny.
Dave: Well, Tom, let’s put it like this: What Catholics and Lutherans conclude has nothing to do with what the Bible says.
Tom: Mmhmm.
Dave: What I want to know and that’s what this program is all about—search the scriptures daily. That’s what the Bereans did. Checked Paul out. They didn’t get a bunch of theologians together and try to come up with some statement that they could all sign.
Tom: Mmhmm.
Dave: But what does the Bible say? The Bible is very clear. “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.” “Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.” “He was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” That’s the gospel that Paul said he preached and by which the Corinthians were saved. You don’t have to discuss that for thirty years! So the very fact that they have discussed this for thirty years indicates that they are not going by what the Bible says. It’s very simple. And Paul wrote to Timothy, 2 Timothy:3:15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
See All..., “From a child you have known the holy scriptures which are able to make you wise unto salvation.”
Tom: “…Unto salvation.”
Dave: I’m going to go by what the Bible says and what these theologians have concluded in this lengthy complicated document for which both sides have different meanings for key words, that’s beside the point. What does the Bible say? And I must “…earnestly contend for THE faith once for all delivered unto the saints.”