Christian Atheism?

Now, Religion in the News, a report and comment on religious trends and events being covered by the media.This week’s item is from Altar Net, March 10, 2006, with a headline:Why I am a Christian,sort of.I don’t believe in God, I don’t believe Jesus Christ was the Son of a God that I don’t believe in.Nor do I believe that Jesus rose from the dead to ascend to heaven that I don’t believe exists.Given these positions, this year I did the only thing that seems sensible,I formally joined a Christian church.Standing before the congregation of Saint Andrew’s Presbyterian church in Austin, Texas, I affirmed that I,One: Endorsed the core principles in Christ’s teaching. Two: intended to work to deepen my understanding and practice of the universal love at the heart of those principles,and Three:Pledged to be a responsible member of the church and the larger community.So, I’m a Christian,sort of, a secular Christian,a Christian atheist perhaps, but in a deep sense I would argue a real Christian.The pastor in most of the congregation at Saint Andrews understand my reasons for joining, realizing that I didn’t convert in a theological sense, but joined a moral and political community.There’s nothing special about me in this regard.Many Saint Andrew’s members I’ve talked to are seeking community and a place for spiritual, moral and politicalengagement.The church is expansive in defining faith.The degree to which members of the congregation believe in God and Christ in traditional terms varies widely.Many do, some don’t, and a whole lot of folks seem to be searching.Saint Andrew’s offers a safe space and an exciting atmosphere for that search in collaboration with others.

Tom:

Dave: I’ve got a better safe place for somebody who thinks like this.This man is a college professor, okay, but I recommend a padded room somewhere, because this is lunacy under the guise of making sense---Come on!

Dave:

Well, it’s lunacy, Tom, and yet for what the polls tell us, there are quite a few pastors who would believe the same, and we could think of Bishop Spong who is a bishop, Anglican church---

Tom:

Episcopal.

Dave:

Well,Episcopal church they call it in America, he doesn’t believe anything, ands he is a bishop, what is the point?But this man says he’s joined a church?Well,the church is supposed to be founded upon Jesus Christ, the chief cornerstone.I mean, look Tom, just to be logical, you can’t make it up, you can’t make it up as you go along.You call yourself a Christian, well, I think Jesus Christ had the right to define what a Christian is, and if you’re not willing to accept his definition, you don’t believe that he is who he claimed to be, then please, don’t call yourself a Christian.As you said, this is lunacy!

Tom:

Or a Christianatheist, Dave, a secular Christian.But in a deep sense, I would argue a real Christian.

Dave:

And so he doesn’t know what a Christian is, obviously, he’s speaking from ignorance, and this a college professor, university professor?

Tom:

Right, right, but he’snot the only one, so we’re not just picking on this guy.

Dave:

But they let him join the church.Now what’s wrong with Saint Andrew’s Presbyterian church?They’ve really gone astray and I think they have other people in there the same because, Tom, I know that from practical experience,I talk to people all the time.

Tom:

Dave, just a little side note here. Let’s move away from religion because that creates, you know, somebody says, Well, it’s a different kind of thinking, and it’s spiritual and so on.Let’s say I wanted to join the Republican party, but I didn’t buy anything that the Republican party stood for, and I had my own ideas, and so on.I mean, what would that be?

Dave:

I want to join a football team---

Tom:

There you go!

Dave:

But I’m going to carry the ball in the wrong direction.I’m going to---

Tom:

Make up my own plays, let the cheerleaders play.

Dave:

---make up my own rules.

Tom:

I mean, you know, what!

Dave:

You can’t play a game without rules.So, what they are doing, Tom, it’s really a reflection of---well, we’ve got someone like Joel Osteen, that we have referred to a time or two, on Larry King.He doesn’t---Well, I don’t know, Well, I don’t know, I don’t know, and what does he give you Sunday morning?I’ve watched him a few times, it’s just a sweet, positive---

Tom:

Make you feel good.

Dave:

Yeah, let’s get along and let’s be happy, but---

Tom:

That’s really thoughtless, Dave.

Dave:

But they love it, biggest church in the U.S. now.So, this is Christianity.Tom, I may have mentioned it a time or two before, but I was having a little debate with a Muslim on radio in Washington D. C. and he’s trying to tell me that Islam is peace.I said, Look, if you want to make up a religion, you want to start your own religion, go ahead, call it anything you want, but you cannot call it Islam!And I said, Because it has a founder, it has its scriptures, it has its history.And I said, I say the same thing to people who call themselves Christians, and that would go for this man.You want to make up a religion, go ahead, make up any religion you want, make up your own rules, but you cannot call it Christianity.Don’t you dare call yourself a Christian unless you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, the example of Christ, and the criteria that he set.Tom, that’s pretty elementary, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.Now you mention, you’re Republican or Democrat, or whatever, football team---Whoa!You can’t do that anywhere else.I often say to people, You can’t get on the United Airlines with a ticket to Disneyland, they’re not going to let you aboard!We recognize that in every area of life, but when it comes to Christianity, when it comes to God, you know, if there might be a God out there somewhere, we don’t let him---hecan’t make the rules, that would be unreasonable.You mean God is going to say there are certain thing that you’ve got to do and that’s it, otherwise you’re lost?No, we won’t allow that, and Tom, that is, as you said, lunacy!

Tom:

Well, let me just quote from the article again.This professor writes:“There is nothing special about me in this regard, many St. Andrew’s members I’ve talked to are seeking community and a place for spiritual, moral and political engagement.”This is utter confusion, this is delusion, what we do ever get out of this?He says the church is expansive in defining faith.What does that mean, Dave?

Dave:

It can’t be, because it’s disobeying the Bible of course.

Tom:

“The degree to which the members of the congregation believe in God and Christ in traditional terms varies widely.”

Dave:

So, the problem is with the whole church, and this guy is just joining it---

Tom:

Yeah, and not this particular church, generally where these ideas have taken hold.Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!It’s just unbelievable!