Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. I’m Gary Carmichael, thanks for tuning in. In today’s program, we bring back a classic from our Search the Scriptures archives with the late founder of The Berean Call, Dave Hunt, and T.A. McMahon, With Part 1 of their radio discussion of Dave’s book Judgment Day: Is There a War between Allah and Yahweh?” first broadcast in 2006. Here’s TBC Executive Director, Tom McMahon.
Tom: Thanks, Gary. You're listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God's truth to look to God's Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one's life in a way that is pleasing to Him. In this segment of our program, we’re beginning our discussions of Dave Hunt’s new book Judgment Day! Islam, Israel, and the Nations, which has just rolled off the press. Dave, the title is certainly thought provoking. Most folks wouldn’t get the impression that it’s a happy, feel-good-about-the-world-situation sort of book, so can you give us a synopsis of the book and tell us why you wrote it?
Dave: Well, Tom, we have a lot of happy, feel-good books. That is mostly what is being written out there. We try to hide our heads in the sand; we don’t want to face the problems that are in the world today. And probably the greatest challenge - the greatest danger to the entire world - is Islam. And the Bible is filled with very clear and frightening (really frightening) declarations by God of the judgment He is going to bring upon this world. Why is He going to do that? Well, that’s what we talk about, and we give you the documentation from prophecy in the Bible, from history, and from the daily news, what is happening in our world. This world is ripening for God’s judgment.
Now, maybe I just lost half of our listeners by saying that. Well, I would say I’m sorry for them, because we had better face up to what is coming on this world. There are a number of people out there who need to repent.
So the book zeros in - I mean, there are many prophecies, hundreds of prophecies, and I begin by saying that this is what is unique about the Bible. We have said it many times: there are no prophecies in the Qur’an, the Hindu Vedas, Bhagavad Gita, Ramayana Mahabharata, sayings of Buddha, Confucius - you name them. But the Bible has hundreds, literally hundreds of prophecies, and you can’t mistake them, but I talk about the ones that are specifically for our day, and you cannot escape it.
For example, we begin in Zechariah 12, where God says, “Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”
Now, we’ve talked about this in the past, Tom, and many prophecy speakers, writers, have dealt with this, but I have never heard anyone - at least when I was present - or any book that I have read (there may be some) that points out some specifics about this verse that indicated it’s for our day. They say, “Well, that’s a nice prophecy. I mean, it’s - okay, so it seems like it’s happening today, but how do we really know it’s happening today?”
Because - notice what it says: “…a cup of trembling unto all the people round about [round about Jerusalem, that is; that is all of Israel’s neighbors], when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.”
Now, Israel has had many enemies in the past, and you could begin to enumerate them, from the Egyptians to the Babylonians, the Assyrians, and so forth…never, ever in history have they all been united against Israel. This is the first time! So to my mind, that marks the fulfillment. This prophecy is being fulfilled in our day, never before in history.
Then we talk about why the people round about tremble at Israel - and I won’t go into that now on the program; we can come back to that later. Then, we go on to [Zechariah:12:3]. Verse 3 says: “And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people….” The language is very specific; you can’t escape it.
“A cup of trembling…” All right, in other words, it will cause fear and trembling to the nations right around it, all the neighbors, who, for the first time in history, are all united against Israel. What unites them? Islam! And we go into that in detail, what Islam really is. There are a lot of misunderstandings out there, and I’m not only talking about - it’s not peace, it’s war. It intends to take over the world, and I document that beyond any question exactly what the Muslims are up to, not only in the Middle East but in our country as well.
For example, you have hundreds of mosques in the United States. They are almost all supported by the profits that we give Saudi Arabia at the pump when we buy our gas, and they are centers for hatred against America. They are arousing hatred against America. Now, this is supposedly our “good ally” over there in Saudi Arabia. So it is Islam that has united all these nations in a common purpose to destroy Israel. There is not one Arab map in the entire world that shows the existence of Israel, and it is - what kind of a joke is this that the United Nations, European Union, America, President Bush…we keep pushing Israel to make peace with people who don’t even acknowledge her existence and are determined to destroy her, okay?
Tom: And, Dave, I started off by saying this is not a happy, feel-good sort of book. Why would you write something like this? You know, as you began to say, there are plenty of books out there that are happy, feel-good sort of things, but why? Why did you write it?
Dave: Well, Tom, as I said when we began, in my opinion, Islam is the greatest threat to the world, and that’s not a few fanatics - this is Islam itself. We explain what Islam is. I give all the documentation; nobody can deny it, what Islam is. Islam is not a new religion; it’s a pagan religion. Muhammad changed very, very little. All he changed was from saying that Allah was the chief god in the Kaaba - Allah is a contraction of al-Ilah, which means “the chief god”; it was contracted to Allah. He changed it from…Allah is not the chief god - there are about 360 idols in the Kaaba to which they still make the haj today - but Allah is the only god, and you either worship Allah and confess that Muhammad is his prophet, or we kill you. It’s that simple! Muhammad said, “Allah has commanded me to fight against all people until all people confess there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” Okay?
So I explained what Islam really is, what they intend to do, and then the place that Israel has in God’s plans, and the entire world is defying God. There are hundreds of promises in the Bible from God that these are His people, and I document that thoroughly so that no one can call themselves a Palestinian over there. There is no such people, and we prove that.
You see, Abraham had two sons: Ishmael was the firstborn, then Isaac. The Arabs claim to have come from Ishmael, the Jews from Isaac, and I show you beyond refutation that the Bible is very clear: it’s the Jews that are the heirs that inherit it, and there are many, many reasons, so that those people who call themselves Palestinians couldn’t possibly qualify.
Tom: But, Dave, why did God put it on your heart - I assume that’s what happened - to write this book? What can people get out of this book? How could it encourage them? Or how could it bring them to an understanding they didn’t have before?
Dave: Well, it will bring them to an understanding they didn’t have before of Islam, and of the prophecies, of where we are going, because this world is ripening for God’s judgment; there is no question about it. It’s going to happen in our day, and by “our day” I mean, I think, very shortly, and this is where we are heading. So first of all, I would like to put the brakes on. I would like to stop us going in that direction.
Now, you can say, “Well, it is prophesied. Nobody can stop it.” Yes, but I don’t think President Bush should be the instrument to bring this about, to bring God’s judgment upon America.
Let me just mention another prophecy that we begin with here in the first chapter, and then I want to come back to Zechariah:12:3. But God says in Joel:3:2 that He is going to bring all the nations into judgment. He’s going to punish them, He’s going to bring them against Israel to destroy them. Now, that’s frightening! I quote many of the prophecies in the Bible. God says, for example, “If I whet my glistening sword, I sharpen my glistening sword, in My wrath the slain of the Lord will be from one end of this world to the other.” I can’t just slough that off, and I don’t want anyone that reads this book to be one of those who is destroyed by God. That’s one of the reasons - hopefully, some people will take heed and will be rescued.
But God says, I am going to bring them into judgment, and He gives two specific reasons. Number one: “They have scattered my people all over this world.” Well, that’s been going on for centuries. The Jews are hated, persecuted, killed like no other people, and we give you a lot of documentation on that, too - that it’s not just Hitler; the whole world was involved in this. Hitler offered to give the Jews to the world, and the world refused – the United States, Britain, and so forth. But they have been doing this for centuries, scattering Israel and persecuting them, and that, in fact, is one of the great proofs of the Bible that we document again in this book.
But the second reason, Tom… “They have divided My land.”
“Divided My land.”
God says, Leviticus:25:23, “This is My land!” He gave it to the Jews, but He still says, “This is My land. It is not to be sold forever, not to be divided.” And the land has never been divided in history. This is another reason why we know these prophecies are for our day; they have never been fulfilled before. When a conqueror conquers a land - and Israel has been conquered by many nations - in fulfillment of prophecy, actually - but a conqueror doesn’t divide up the land, they keep it for themselves. For the first time in history, that land, which - and I’m going into too much detail, Tom; you want more of an overview, I’m sorry - but the United Nations, the League of Nations, the predecessor, the Balfour Declaration, 1919 Paris Peace Conference, and on and on it goes, they all recognize that this land that had come to be called Palestine really was the land of Israel. It was set aside by the world to become the national homeland for the Jewish people who had been scattered everywhere. Britain was given the mandate to see that that happened, and Britain betrayed the Jews and let in the Arabs, because the Arab nations had just discovered oil, and for the sake of oil they betrayed the Jews. And finally - and they divided the land. They gave most of it to Jordan, in fact, to create Jordan. And finally, UN Resolution 181, November 29, 1947, it’s called the “Partition of the Land,” and the whole world united to give Israel 13 percent of the land that they had promised them, recognized…that belonged to them in the first place. So we have for the first time in history the dividing of the land of Israel by the nations. All the nations joined together to do it, and God says, “I am going to punish them for dividing My land.”
Tom: Dave, let’s go right into chapter 1. You say some fascinating things here, but I think some things that would be good to explain. On page 7, you say, “The real battle is not between Arabs and Jews, but between Allah and Yahweh.” What does that mean?
Dave: That’s right, Allah is the god of the Muslims, and it’s Islam, not Arabs - it’s Islam against Israel. The Arabs and the Jews got along quite well for many years, many centuries, until 1,300 years ago, Islam came into being through Muhammad and began its conquest, and among the first nations they conquered was so-called Palestine.
But let me come back to Zechariah:12:3, Tom, to show the contrast. Now, this is for our day. “Jerusalem will be a cup of trembling to all the nations round about.” First time when they were in a siege, first time they are all united. It is Islam that unites them, okay? Then verse 3 says, “And it will be a burdensome stone to all the nations of this world.”
Tom, that’s just an incredible prophecy. At the time of that prophecy 2,500 years ago, Jerusalem lay in ruins. It had been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, and God said, “I’m telling you, the day is coming when the entire world will be in fear and trembling. They will have their eyes on Jerusalem, knowing the next world war that breaks out will break out over Jerusalem.” And it will be a nuclear war. Israel - they’ve got plenty of nuclear missiles. They can launch them from submarines. They have had to develop this, because the nations all around them are developing weapons, billions of dollars worth of weapons, and we know it’s for one purpose - not defense; Israel is not threatening anybody. They never have threatened anyone. They want to destroy Israel, and in the book, we give you many, many quotations from leading Muslims, leading Arabs, okay?
Now, “Jerusalem will be a cup of trembling to the nations around it, but a burdensome stone to the entire world.” So I point out that the United Nations has spent one-third of its time deliberating, pronouncing, condemning - they have condemned Israel. More than 60,000 individual votes have been cast against Israel, condemning Israel. Never have they condemned the terrorists, never condemned those who attack Israel, who start the wars, and so forth. The United Nations has spent one-third of its time on this tiny nation that has 1/1000th of the earth’s population, and they have spent one-third of their time debating about it. Now, I would say that that’s pretty much of a burden, Tom.
So, once again, that prophecy has never been fulfilled in the past. It has been fulfilled in our day, and that causes me to believe that the grand finale to which these prophecies lead will also be fulfilled in our day. It’s not going to sit around for a long time.
Tom: Mm-hmm. You make an interesting observation: you say that skeptics - and this is so true - have accused evangelicals of trying to fit prophecy to current events, claiming that no one recognized such problems in the past but only since Israel was formed in 1948.
Dave: Well, they do, and, Tom, I would be the first to admit that there are many so-called prophecy experts out there, and that’s what they do. They are watching for every new item. “Oh, the Gulf War” - well, that was going to lead to Armageddon.” No, the Bible doesn’t talk about the Gulf War.
So I am not speculating, I am giving hard facts. I’m taking prophecy, and I’m pointing to things that have actually happened that fulfilled that prophecy - never happened before, it’s only in our day.
Now, I mentioned Martin Luther, for example. He realized that the Bible promised that God’s chosen people would be brought back into their land, but it hadn’t happened in his day.
Tom: And that gave him a perspective - let me read that quote: he says, “If the Jews are Abraham’s descendants, then we would expect to see them back in their own land with a state of their own. But what do we see? We see them living scattered and despised.” And that really affected his view of the Jews, didn’t it?
Dave: Right, caused him to think they couldn’t possibly be God’s people, or, if they were, these prophecies were for another time, and it’s too late now for them to be fulfilled. But not too much longer, a few centuries after he said that, there they are in their land.
And, Tom, I grew up in a fellowship of believers. They believed the Bible, and I can remember in the ‘30s, sitting in church and hearing these preachers. They would come through with their charts, some of them, saying, “Israel will be a nation once again. It will be back in its own land, because God has promised that hundreds of times in the Bible.” And I also quote people like D. James Kennedy, for example. His Knox Seminary there in Fort Lauderdale, Florida - I think they had 70 or more men, Christian leaders, sign a document stating, “Israel is finished. The fact that there are a few Jews over there in that land means nothing. It is preposterous to imagine that God has a special people and that a land belongs to these special people.” They are very straightforward about it, denying it. I don’t see how they can possibly deny that, because there are hundreds of promises.
Tom, we would only need to go to Jeremiah:31:35 where God says, “If the sun continues to shine in the sky, and the stars are up there, and the tides are at work, and the natural order is still intact, then Israel cannot cease from being a nation.” And if Israel ceases from being a nation, the whole thing is finished. God has tied His integrity to the survival and the ultimate blessing of Israel, and, in fact, the Bible - we give you many prophecies - the Bible prophesies that the last days of Israel will be the best. But in the meantime - and we point out all the prophecies, you know - why do I say “Islam, Israel, and the Nations”? Islam is going to get it! They are the most anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel religion this world has ever seen, and of course, they are huge - 1.3 billion. Israel? Why do I put Israel in there under God’s judgment? Because Israel is going to be punished by God. They have gone along with this. You say, “Well, they’ve been so pressured by the European Union, by United Nations…everybody is against them.” They have agreed, as Ariel Sharon - you know, they’re bringing the settlers out of the settlements; they have pulled back again and again and again, given land to their enemies who have sworn to exterminate them. They don’t want just more land, they want everything; that’s fully documented, but nevertheless, Israel is not excused by the pressure that this entire world has put upon them, because they should have trusted God; they should have believed His promises. But 30 percent of the Israelis claim to be atheists, all right? So Israel is going to get it, and all the nations are going to get it.
By the way, the Bible very clearly says - the next chapter…we have been talking about Zechariah 12 - the next chapter very clearly says that two-thirds of all Jews on this earth will be destroyed. Jeremiah:30:7 calls this, “The day of Jacob’s trouble.” So I am not trying to depress people, Tom, but I’m trying to get the world to face the facts.
Tom: Mm-hmm. Dave, as you know, for anybody who just tuned in, the name of this program is Search the Scriptures Daily, so what you’re presenting in your book is what you took from the Scriptures, and it’s the Old Testament prophets - it’s the Jewish prophets that you are quoting here, and anybody can go to the Old Testament and check it out, right?
Dave: Absolutely, Tom, I mean - but we’ve talked about that in many different ways. Prophecy proves the Bible. Prophecy proves that Jesus Christ is the only Savior of sinners…
Tom: The Messiah.
Dave: Absolutely. I mean, there are so many prophecies, Tom, hundreds and hundreds. And on page 1, we mention the fact that the word “Israel” is found 2,565 times in 2,293 verses in the King James translation of the Bible. “Jerusalem” is found 811 times in 764 verses. In contrast, the word “Jerusalem” is not found even once in the Qur’an. And yet the Muslims claim it belongs to them. The Qur’an doesn’t talk about Israel, although, Tom, I give some quotes from the Qur’an that most people will find rather surprising, because I quote verse after verse in the Qur’an where Allah says that the Jews are his chosen people, and that that land over there, the promised land, belongs to them, and that he is the one who delivered them from Pharaoh and from Egypt, through the Red Sea - it even talks about…and brought them into that land. I don’t know how the Muslims explain that away.
But anyway, Tom, I think this is the most important book that I have ever written, and it was very much on my heart. I hope that many people will heed what it has to say from God’s Word.
Tom: Dave, next week we are going to pick up with another prophecy: “In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a hearth of fire among the wood, and they shall devour all the people round about.” Stunning prophecy saying that God is not only going to protect Israel, He’s going to work in their situation to the amazement of the world, in power. So we’re going to pick this up next week in this segment of our program. The book, again, is Judgment Day! Islam, Israel and the Nations.
Gary: You’ve been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7 with T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. The complete radio discussion of Dave Hunt’s Book “Judgment Day: Israel, Islam, & The Nations” is available in Mp3 or Compact Disc from The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contact us at PO Box 7019, Bend, Oregon 97708; call us at 800.937.6638, or visit our website at the bereancall.org. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope you can be here again next week. Until then, we encourage you to Search the Scriptures 24/7.