Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for joining us! In today’s program, we continue with our series of classics from our Search the Scriptures archives with the late founder of The Berean Call, Dave Hunt, and T.A. McMahon. With part three of their radio discussion of Dave’s book Judgment Day – Why Would God Bring All Nations against Israel?” first broadcast in 2006. Here’s TBC executive director, Tom McMahon.
Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him.
In this segment of our program, we’ve been discussing Dave Hunt’s new book Judgment Day: Islam, Israel, and the Nations, and currently we’re in chapter 1, which is titled “The Stage Is Set.” Now, Dave, last week, we talked about the prophecy found in Zechariah:12:6. I’m quoting: “In that day will I make the governors of Judah like a hearth of fire among the wood and like a torch of fire in a sheath, and they shall devour all the people round about.”
And then you gave some examples from the Yom Kippur War in 1973, when the nations surrounding Israel attacked the country during its religious holiday. Now, Zechariah:12:3 says, “And in that day, I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people; and all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.”
Now, why would God bring all nations against Jerusalem and Israel in order to put an end to them?
Dave: Not an end to Israel, of course, but an end to these nations. He’s going to punish them. Well, we touched on Joel:3:2 last week or the week before, where God says exactly why He’s going to punish the nations: “I’m going to bring them there, and I will plead with them (which means ‘punish’ them) for two reasons: they have scattered my people around this earth,” number one (well, that’s been going on for centuries). Number two: they have divided my land.” And I won’t go back over that, but for the first time in history, nations of this world have divided the land of Israel. The United Nations did it in UN Resolution 181, November 29, 1947. It’s called The Partition of the Land. They divided up this land called Palestine, which was not Palestine – is not Palestine – it’s the land of Israel, but it had been renamed that by the Romans in 135 AD in anger. And that had all been designated by the League of Nations, the Paris Peace Conference, 1919, the Balfour Declaration, 1917, etc. That had been designated as the national homeland of the Jewish people, and we went over that briefly. Britain had the mandate to see that this happened. They betrayed the Jews for oil. They let in the Arabs; they gave most of it to Jordan to pacify the Emir because he couldn’t get along with his relatives over there in Saudi Arabia, and he had to have a land of his own, so they gave him what was called Transjordan; then it was called Jordan. That’s on the East Bank. That belonged to Israel also. And Israel finally got 13 percent.
So, God is going to punish the nations of this world. There’s no question about it. He says it over and over: “These are my people, the chosen people.” Two hundred and three times God calls Himself the God of Israel, and He says in Leviticus:25:23, “That that land is not be sold.” It’s not to be partitioned it’s not to be traded off. “Forever,” God says, “the land is mine.”
So, that’s what’s going to happen. And, as we read these prophecies in Zechariah:12:2-3; and in Joel:3:2, and other places, Tom, I challenge anybody to deny that these are prophecies exactly for today. As I said, the land of Israel has never been divided. And it was divided by the nations of this world, exactly as God said.
Tom: Yeah, within the last 80 years.
Dave: Less than 60 years, actually. But God also said that all the nations around Israel would be united against her. That’s happened today for the first time. Never were the nations around Israel united against her - all of her neighbors - because of Islam!
Dave: Zechariah:12:2: “I’ll make Jerusalem a cup of trembling.” That is, it will be a matter for the nations surrounding Israel to be in fear and trembling because their military is too good for these people. You read the verse: “I’ll make them like a hearth of fire and wood. They will devour the nations round about” (and I hope we can come back and talk just a little bit about that Yom Kippur War), and verse 3: “…a burdensome stone to all nations.” And, as we’ve pointed out, the United Nations has spent one-third of its time debating and pronouncing, and so forth, condemning this tiny nation that has 1/1000 of the earth’s population. The United Nations has spent one-third of its time. And, Tom, the whole world knows, if you don’t solve that problem of Jerusalem – that’s the big stickler; that’s what caused Arafat to walk out at Camp David – if you don’t solve that problem, you’ve got a nuclear holocaust, because these nations all around Israel are arming themselves not for self-defense, everybody knows that. Israel, of course, has had to arm itself in self-defense. It has nuclear missiles that it can launch from submarines. Israel has been working very diligently because otherwise they’re sitting there defenseless against nations who have sworn – sworn over and over, Tom - to annihilate them, okay?
Tom: Dave, that almost happened in 1973. And the nations, including the United States, had some participation in that.
Dave: Tom, it’s a matter of shame. We ought to hang our heads, really. The Nixon White House received dozens of notices…
Tom: With a Jewish Secretary of State, no less!
Dave: Right…received dozens of notifications from the National Security Administration, the NSA, that a Jewish Pearl Harbor was about to take place. They knew the day: in October 1973. Remember, the Russians had moved all of their dependents out of that area. They knew it was going to happen. Nixon sat on those notices! Now, Henry Kissinger, as you mentioned – a Jew - he hid out in the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York for three days before he called the Security Council of the United Nations in an emergency session, which he should have done instantly – in fact, we should have let Israel know, but we didn’t let Israel know. Well, I think we gave them a notice just a few hours before. It was too late. They were all on vacation and so forth…
Tom: Because it was Yom Kippur, a religious holiday.
Dave: Right. Right. And he hid out there for three days before he called the United Nations Security Council together in an emergency session. Of course, Russia blocked the call for a ceasefire. The nations of the world were hoping that Israel would be wiped out.
Now, you could say, “Well, Nixon didn’t really want them to be wiped out. He just wanted them to be bloodied a bit.” And we pointed out that it cost them 3,000 lives, which was comparable to the United States, at our population, that would have been 150,000 military men. And when that war ended, the Israeli tanks were on the outskirts of Damascus and Cairo and could have taken those cities.
But, Tom, let me read just a quote from a history professor, David A. Rausch, about this particular war. Remember, 80,000 Egyptians overwhelmed 500 Israeli defenders on the Suez, and here comes 1,400 Syrian tanks pouring down the Golan. You’ve got one Israeli tank in service down there to oppose them, and there were some significant advances made by the Egyptians and the Syrians in the early hours of that war before Israel could get itself mobilized. Because of that, the Arab nations – now, they’re all joining, and they were going to get in on this slaughter!
He writes: “Jordan’s King Hussein sent two of his best armored brigades to Syria. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait financially underwrote the huge cost while sending thousands of troops to fight the Israelis. Kuwait lent her British-made Lightning jets to Egypt. Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi turned over forty French-made Mirage III fighters and 100 tanks. Iraqi MIG fighter jets as well as tank and infantry divisions fought on the Golan Heights while a squadron of Iraqi hunter jets were utilized by Egypt. Arabs predicted the extermination of the Jewish state, and the “liberation” of Palestine.”
They all joined in. I mean, “We’re gonna make sure we do it this time!” That was the last time they’ve tried. Since then, it’s been pretend “peace,” but terrorism – terrorism – continually putting pressure on the United Nations and the world. “Oh, it’s Israel’s fault. They’re occupying our land! Give us just a little more of that land back, and then it will be okay. Move the borders back to 1967…” That was when Israel had to make that preemptive strike, because all the nations about them were determined to destroy them and publicly said so.”
“Move the borders back to ’67.” But the PLO was founded – the Palestine Liberation Organization was founded in 1964. If they’re satisfied with the borders that they had in ’67, why did they found the PLO in ’64? Furthermore, the founding chairman is a man named Ahmad Shukairy, who in 1956, testifying to the United Nations, said, “There is no such place as Palestine.” And he became the founding chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization!
In fact, there never was such a place as Palestine, but we’ve talked about that, weeks ago, I guess.
Tom: Related to the Yom Kippur War, going back to the war in which Israel should have been eliminated in 1948…
Dave: Wow, yeah!
Tom: They had nothing then! And they should have been overwhelmed and annihilated. But the prophecy says… God says, “I WILL…!” He’s the one that’s doing this!
Tom: And I think it’s demonstrated in what we’ve seen happening.
Dave: Well, Joel:3:2 is a grim prophecy. It’s precise in its language. God says He’s going to punish the nations for scattering His people and for dividing His land.
This is one of the many reasons, Tom, why I believe we are really in the last days. This is not going to go on much longer, because these are prophecies that are specifically for today. They’ve been fulfilled in the last few years; they are continuing to be fulfilled.
Tom: But, Dave, why Islam? Why is Islam so set against annihilating, destroying, Israel. And, by the way, many who are Muslims would claim, “Oh, no, no, no…we love Jews. We want to help them. We love America.” You know, all of this!
Dave: Tom, they talk out of both sides of their mouths. They lie. And I …
Tom: I know there are some people who consider themselves to be Muslims, and they just don’t understand Islam, which is what you’re going to get at.
Dave: Well, Tom, I like to give them the benefit of the doubt, as I like to remind myself and others that most Catholics probably don’t know what the Catholic Church stands for; probably most Southern Baptists don’t know what the Southern Baptist doctrines are. They just kind of go along with it.
But there are leaders who know better. And they continue to say, “Islam is peace.” We have quoted Muhammad in the past. Let’s quote him again. Muhammad said, “The last day will not come…” and let me explain what “the last day” is, for the Muslim. It’s one of the five things every Muslim must believe in. “The last day” is the day of resurrection, when your good deeds are weighed in the balance against your bad deeds to see whether you will make it to paradise or not. And even then, you may not make it, because Allah is rather…well, you can’t count on what he will do. He doesn’t go by any rules. There’s no reason why he should call this a good deed, and that a bad deed. We’ve quoted Abu Bakr, Muhammad’s father-in-law, the first one to whom he promised paradise without martyrdom, and Abu Bakr said, “Even if I had one foot inside of paradise, I couldn’t trust Allah. He might shove me out!” Okay?
But anyway, the “last day” is the day when supposedly the good deeds will be weighed in the balance before Allah, and if the good deeds outweigh the bad, you make it to paradise. Okay, now…
Tom: Many religious people around the world think that’s the way!
Dave: Yeah, and, Tom, it is ridiculous, because you can say to the judge, “Yeah, I know I was speeding last week, but I’ve driven more times within the law than I have exceeding it,” that’s just ridiculous. You don’t get off of having broken the law by having kept it more times than you broke it.
I guess a mass murderer, you know – we’ve got a number of them in the news – who have murdered ten, twenty victims, raped them, and so forth, I guess they could say, “Yeah, but look at all the thousands of women that I didn’t murder and rape. Surely my good deeds outweigh my bad. I’ve even been kind to people!” So that won’t work.
But anyway, Muhammad said, “The last day will not come until the Muslims confront the Jews, and the Muslims destroy them. In that day, Allah will give a voice to the rocks and the trees, and they will cry out, ‘O Muslim, O Abdullah, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.”
Now, you can’t understand Islam unless you understand that every Jew on the face of this earth must be killed. So now, Islam teaches that this land over there that came to be called Palestine, which is really the land of Israel, belongs to the Arabs as descendants of Ishmael, claiming that they’re the original Palestinians, etc., although Ishmael was not a Palestinian…and we’ve gone into that. His father was from Ur of the Chaldees and his mother was Egyptian. When Abraham arrived with his maids and menservants and so forth, and flocks and herds, Canaan was already settled. It was the land of Canaan. So, the Arabs are not descended from the original Palestinians. There were no such people. All right? Not until 135 AD when the Romans renamed Israel “Palestine,” and who lived there? Jews! And the Jews in fact were called Palestinians, and the Arabs even said, “We’re not Palestinians. The Jews are Palestinians.” But anyway, they lie. They try to change history.
So Islam teaches, although the Qur’an clearly says (and I give the quotes in the book), in many verses, that Allah gave this land to the Jews. Nevertheless Islam teaches that because of their sin, and so forth, that land belongs to the Arabs; that the Arabs will conquer, the Muslims will conquer the Jews. In fact, that they will conquer the world. Therefore, as long as Israel has sovereignty over one square yard of land in the Middle East, it’s an affront to Islam. It says Islam is a false religion, Muhammad is a false prophet, Allah is not the true God, the Qur’an is not the Word of the true God. They must destroy Israel. It is that simple. And all this talk about “Give them a little more land,” “We’re going to bring peace,” Tom, it’s some kind of a joke. And the world leaders know better than that.
Tom: Dave, a couple of things. The verse that you quoted from the Hadith – this is the Sahih Bukhari hadith. This is not some obscure teaching. For example, if you listen to Palestinian radio over in Israel, you would hear this. This is taught in the schools. This is taught everywhere.
Dave: Taught in the United States in Muslim academies here. So, this is their doctrine. Okay, so, anti-Semitism is satanic. I think we’ve explained it before, but, Tom, I want to explain it again. Why is it satanic? No one can argue with this. There is a real Satan.
Anti-Semitism is one of the great proofs that God exists, that the Bible is the Word of God, and that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because it foretells anti-Semitism. Why? Because the Messiah would come through the Jews. God promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that the Messiah would be from their seed. So, if Satan could destroy the Jews – and, you know, in history, many times he’s tried to do that. Some of it is recited for us in the Bible. If Satan could destroy the Jews, no Messiah. Satan’s won his battle with God.
Now, even though Christ came, the Messiah came, and defeated Satan on the cross, paid the penalty for our sins so that salvation is available to mankind, if Satan could destroy the Jews today, there could be no Second Coming.
We believe in the Rapture. The Christians would be taken out of here. We would be in heaven. But this world would belong to Satan, because there are hundreds – literally hundreds – of prophecies in the Bible, promises from God that although His people would be persecuted and hated and killed like no other people, all of which has come to pass and we see it still going on today, nevertheless, He would preserve them an identifiable ethnic group of people, and in the Last Days, He would bring them back into their own land; He would make Jerusalem a “cup of trembling” as we’ve said, “a burdensome stone,” and, although they will be attacked by all nations of this world, God said He will destroy them, and the latter end of Israel promises many of them will be better than the first. And the Messiah will return to rule on the throne of His father David over His people Israel and over the world.
So obviously, if there are no people of Israel – if the Jews have been exterminated, as the Muslims intend to do, and as the world would be happy to see - then there is no Second Coming, and God has been proven to be a liar. The promises He made to Israel have not come to pass. There’s no throne of David, and no people of God, for the son of David, the Messiah, to rule over; God is a liar. The moral ground has been pulled out from under God. He can’t punish Satan as the liar and murderer, because God himself would be a liar if Israel could be exterminated.
Tom: And, Dave, as you said, the battle here is between Allah and Yahweh.
Dave: Exactly. So this is what’s happening. Any other ideas about bringing peace to the Middle East, it just isn’t going to happen.
Tom: Now, Dave, when I was talking about the Palestinian radio and so on – and television - promoting this idea that every Jew must be killed. You have here, in this country, you quote an Islamic Committee for Palestine, Chicago, Illinois, December 28-31, 1990, this is Sheikh Abdul Aziz Oudeh, one of the leaders in the Islamic Jihad Movement, declared: “Now Allah is bringing the Jews back to Palestine in large groups from all over the world to their big graveyard, where the promise will be realized upon them, and what was destined will be carried out.
Dave: Now, of course, the promise is not God’s promise.
Dave: In other words, they’re defying the God of Israel, they’re defying the Bible. But this is the promise that Allah has made, and Muhammad has made, of the extermination of the Jews, and this is their destiny, the Muslims believe.
Tom: Right. Another conference in Kansas City, 1989 – you have a sheikh who told a group of Muslim men whom he was recruiting for their holy war, “On the hour of judgment, Muslims must fight the Jews and kill them…”
Dave: Well, Tom, these facts – I lay them out in the book. Many, many quotations, documentation. This is Islam. We lay it out very clearly. I don’t see how President Bush could be ignorant of this; I don’t see how the United Nations’ leaders could be ignorant of it; I don’t see how Putin and the European Union, those leaders, could be ignorant of these facts. They ignore the Bible…see, we can’t pick and choose from the Bible. And, Tom, there are many people who are Christians, real Christians, who are clear on the gospel, but when it comes to Israel…and, again, we quote D. James Kennedy and his theological seminary there in Florida – they put out a document saying, “Israel is of no significance. To suggest that there is a special people to whom a certain land belongs is just nonsense. It isn’t true.” They are denying the Bible as well.
And President Bush, or Putin, or the UN, or whatever, they can justify themselves and say, “There are plenty of Christians out there who say Israel is of no significance. Those promises you refer to in the Old Testament – they have been abrogated because of Israel’s sin. It’s not going to happen.”
So, Tom, the fact is that Islam is determined to destroy Israel, and any so-called peace proposal must take that into consideration. In fact, the Bible says that there will be a false peace. Israel will be deceived by it, and it will lead to the last war, Armageddon, which I believe is not far off on the horizon.
Gary: You’ve been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7 featuring T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of the The Berean Call. The complete radio discussion of Dave Hunt’s book Judgment Day: Islam, Israel, and the Nations is available in Mp3 or Compact Disc from thebereancall.com. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contact us at PO Box 7019, Bend, OR, 97708; call us at 800-937-6638, or visit our website at thebereancall.org. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for being here, and we invited you back again next week! Until then, we encourage you to Search the Scriptures 24/7.