Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. I'm Gary Carmichael. Thanks for joining us. In today's program, we begin a two-installment series of classics from our Search the Scriptures Daily archives with the late founder of The Berean Call, Dave Hunt, and TBC executive director, Tom McMahon. This week, they address the question: "What Is the Kundalini Spirit?" And now, here's Tom.
Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. We are currently going through Dave Hunt’s book, Yoga and the Body of Christ: What Position Should Christians Hold? in this first segment of our program. And as we’ve been saying, the topic is important because of yoga’s phenomenal popularity within Christianity. So no matter where you are on the subject, whether it relates to your own involvement in yoga or someone you know who practices yoga, you may well find the information we provide helpful.
Dave, you state in chapter 7, of your book, and I’m quoting: “In spite of the advertisements and talk about health and fitness, yoga’s real goal is to awaken Kundalini power, coiled like a serpent at the base of the spine, ready to spring up to manifest itself through the alleged chakras, (centers of universal force) of the body.” Now, what exactly is Kundalini yoga, or Kundalini power, for that matter?
Dave: Well, to put it bluntly, it’s demonic. There is no way you can explain it physically - it’s a nonphysical force. There certainly is nothing coiled at the base of the spine, three and one-half times coiled, like a serpent, that’s going to spring up when you get in the proper state of consciousness, supposedly. This is the same occult power that all the occultists are in touch with, or try to be in touch with.
Tom: And Dave, as well, Eastern religions, mystical religions, we have “ki” in Japan, “aikido” that would be a power. Certainly, “prana” would be another power, the “innate,” even in chiropractic. So, this is supposedly a spiritual power or a spiritual energy that we all have within us, but is it a reality?
Dave: Well, is Satan a reality? Are demons real? Yeah, for example, just jump to something entirely separate, but let’s take an Ouija board. Now, we’ve documented this in laboratories. The Ouija board - look, we’ve even blindfolded people and scrambled the alphabet on the Ouija board so their unconscious mind wouldn’t know, or their memory wouldn’t know, where it was.
Tom: So for some that don’t know, it’s even a Parker’s Brother’s game - I think it’s still available. But it’s a board, and it has letters on it, and then there’s a, what do they call it?
Dave: A planchette.
Tom: Yeah, a little marker that you move with your hands and it has an arrow pointing in a certain direction so you can point to these letters and, supposedly, communication transpires.
Dave: Well, Tom, in laboratory tests…The reason I go to the Ouija board is because it is one of the clearest examples - there is something going on; there is a power. Or you could go to a dowsing rod. I mean we’ve located over half-a-million wells in the United States with a dowsing rod.
Tom: It’s called “water witching.”
Dave: That’s right, they know what it’s about, and that thing will go up and down and tell you how deep you have to drill to get the well, how many gallons per minute, and in France it will tell you how many liters per minute and how many meters you go down. You could even do it over a map. Ruth and I were in Bermuda not too long ago, and the ground water geologist said there’s no water there. I mean, they couldn’t find any, and they declared there was none. A dowser, dowsing over a map in Kennebunkport, Maine - he located three well sites, and they drilled. That’s the water that comes today.
Tom: So we’re talking communication here; there has to be some intelligence involved. It’s not just physiological.
Dave: There’s a communication of information. So, we get back to Kundalini - but there’s a force involved. In other words, if a dowsing rod, well, there is some kind of a force that is bending that. The Ouija board - well, in laboratory experiments, when they are blindfolded, they even put plywood between them - did everything possible so you couldn’t…there is no way you could be…and they the scrambled alphabet - it moves even faster, spelling out messages! There is no way you can explain this as some force innate within the body that somehow is doing this, because what force innate within the body is disconnected from the brain? It doesn’t have any means of direction. But of course the goal of yoga is to reach this state of consciousness where you realize your oneness. Yoga means “yoke,” so you realize that you are yoked to the universe.
Tom, I remember (I don’t think I mentioned it on the program, I may have) getting off the plane in Bombay, India, and I’m just kind of looking around. A guy comes right up to me, “Your name is Dave Hunt! You…” Wait a minute, get out of here! I don’t want to have anything to do with you. See, he could tell me my name, my address - never seen him before - because the demons know where I live, and he is really in touch with them. So people can be involved in yoga and say, “Well, I’ve never had any experiences like this.” Yeah, but we can cite plenty of them who have, so the possibility is always there. So, here we have Kundalini, coiled at the base of the spine, you get in the right state of consciousness, it springs up, manifests itself through the chakras.
Tom: Mm-hmm. Go back to the first statement you made. You said, “This is demonic power.” Why? What would be the point of demons trying to advance this and encourage this?
Dave: Because the serpent’s lie to Eve was, “You can be like the gods.” The only way he can demonstrate that is to give some kind of power. Look, I could get in touch with the universe by yoga, or through an Ouija board, or under hypnosis, whatever it may be. Who needs this God of the Bible, who claims to be the Creator? He says I am a sinner, but yoga doesn’t tell me that I am a sinner. In fact, Hinduism says there’s no such thing as a sinner. The only sin is to call yourself a sinner. This is Hinduism, so it’s like the Star Wars Force. When these kids walked out of that theater, one thought remained with them: “May the Force be with you.” Now we have turned God, that they thought, Well, maybe there’s a god out there - now I’m told God is not a personal being who will hold you accountable. The god Force, this Force - and it’s neutral - it has a dark and a light side. You can play whichever side you want, but it’s amoral. So here we are, I can get it touch, I can realize my oneness, with the universe.
Tom: So, in effect, all of this is to undermine the truth.
Tom: The Creator of the universe lays out information in His Word, in the Bible, and all of this is antithetical to what the Bible teaches. So it’s the lie that, as you said, was first given to mankind in the Garden of Eden, and it’s just being promoted down the line, down through history.
Dave: And there are dozens and dozens of ways Satan has of doing it. You don’t like yoga? Well, how about something else?
Tom: Yeah, Positive Mental Attitude. How about…?
Dave: It’s called divination in the Bible, as well, a divination device. Why does a magician - of course, they are fakes, but they can do amazing things - but why do they have a wand? Because this is like the laser sword. The laser sword in Star Wars was not a weapon, it was a divination device like the divining rod in water witching. You’ve got to have some physical thing, the Ouija board, whatever it is. Tom, I remember being in Turkey, and it is rampant over there but in a different way. They turn their whiskey glass upside down after they have been drinking for a while, and they…everybody puts their hand on a whiskey glass. This thing moves around, and they have said, “Well here, this will be A, B, C, and so forth,” whatever their letters are. So, there are many ways to do this, but the whole idea, as you said, is to make us believe we don’t need this personal God who is going to hassle us with morals and tell us we’re sinners and we need Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. And there’s this Force! “Look what can be done with this Force! And you can harness it to your own ends.”
Tom: Dave, let me add something else to this, because we’re talking about kundalini power, because we’re talking about the so-called chakras, how does this relate to acupuncture or acupressure?
Dave: Well Tom, it’s based on the tao - there again you have it, that there’s a force, and that like the chakras - and I couldn’t tell you exactly the relationship, but I think it is really basically the same - there are certain centers in the body which you stick the needle in…
Tom: They’re called meridians?
Dave: It could be, yes…you put the needle in. Now, there is some scientific basis, because you could start some - well, it’s like an electric current between the nerves. You can get something going. But again, we’ve done laboratory experiments, and what the scientists have decided is, it’s like a placebo. Now a placebo - well here we go, all kinds of these things. You give someone a pill that has nothing in it, sugar pill or whatever, and you say, “This will relieve your pain. This was designed specifically to relieve the pain in the shoulder.” What do you know? The pain goes away! Well, in about 60 percent of the cases, because there is a connection between the mind and the body. The Book of Proverbs, Solomon said, “A merry heart doeth good like a medicine.” Now it isn’t going to restore a severed limb, but there is a connection, and it’s called psychosomatic.
And so the whole idea is “Don’t bother with the Bible,” and that - well, Tom, let me give you another instance. A gentleman that I met in Europe - well, actually, in England - he had developed a terrible shoulder pain. He was not a Christian, but he was interested in so-called spirituality, and he is walking down the street with this excruciating pain, and he hears hymns coming from this house. Well, it might be a church or something, and he’s interested in that, so he goes in. No, it’s a spiritist meeting. They are in touch with demonic entities, and they think they are spirits of the dead that they are communicating with, and they do sing hymns to them. And it happened to be a woman who was in charge, which is often the case. She walks right up to him and puts her hand on his shoulder, and he feels a warmth flowing through, and the pain is gone. Well, that convinces him. I mean, these people - they must be in touch with God! And that sucked him in to the whole world of spiritism.
So look, Satan could put boils on Job, he could remove the boils; he cannot do a genuine healing. If anyone out there doubts that, I can prove that from the Scripture. Remember, Jesus said to the sick of the palsy - they lowered this man through the roof - “My son, thy sins be forgiven thee.” And the Pharisees are murmuring among themselves. Well, Jesus knows what they are saying: “Who can forgive sins but God only?” Well, that’s true! Only God can forgive sins. Now the only real cure for sickness, ultimately, is forgiveness of sins, and that will be realized finally for the Christian with a new body. We don’t continue to live forever in these bodies. So, Jesus says, “Well, that you may know that the Son of man has power on earth to forgive sins, I say to the sick of the palsy, Rise, take up your bed, and walk.” Now that tells me that a genuine healing can only be done by God, because sickness came as a result of sin, and only the One who can remove sin can really heal. But Satan can put…he put this bad shoulder on this guy like he put boils on Job and set him up.
Well, this is what yoga is designed to do is to lead you into - and all the yogis will tell you - the kundalini; that is what we are really after, but you had better look out because it’s very dangerous.
Tom: Dave, I want to jump ahead just to put this into perspective. I want to read a quote from…actually the way you started this book, you talked about Yogi Bhajan and how he was honored by our Congress for all of this. Well, here’s a quote from…for, let’s say, maybe some people who are following along with us, and they are thinking, “Well, wait a minute, this is a little bit too much” - that is, “too much” being the connection between Satan involved and trying to use yoga to move people away from Christianity, from the truth, from biblical truth.
Tom: Well, here’s a quote, again, from his followers. It says: “Kundalini Yoga is the yoga of the Aquarian Age, and we are blessed to deliver it. As for the future, here’s what our Teacher (Yogi Bhajan), the Master of Kundalini Yoga, has to say: ‘Yoga with its every system is going to prevail. By the year 2013, 40 to 60 percent of the people will be practicing yoga… In the coming years, changes in technology, psychology, and sociology shall be huge. In this chaos of the information age, it will be difficult for people to cope with their day-to-day lives. The body, mind, and spirit have to be organized to meet these challenges. The word is going to spread that “Yoga is the way.” This ancient science has saved mankind before, is saving it now, and shall save it in the future.’” This is…what? Messianic? This is Antichrist stuff.
Dave: Yeah, that’s “ancient science.” It’s not a science, of course. Science cannot grasp this. What is the connection between some alleged serpent, coiled at the base of the spine, a force, and the physical? Science can only deal with physical things. It has to get a “hands on” examination. So, first of all, it is not a science. But in the book I quote a number of these guys who are insisting, “Oh, this is a science, a pure science, true science.” And it hasn’t saved the world before - I don’t know when it did that, so that’s a lie.
Tom: And somebody just need go to India, if you want proof positive that this whole thing is a fake, it’s a lie, it’s a deception.
Dave: India is the center of yoga, and it is - I don’t want to insult any Indians out there, but I’ve talked to plenty of Indians who acknowledge it. Hinduism has done in India - they’ve got very bright people, they have resources - but when you believe in reincarnation, for example…Tom, I’ve seen rats as big as small dogs. I don’t think a terrier would want to tackle one of those things. Why? Because that could be Aunt Jane, or Uncle George, you know! So, they have the law of Ahimsa: you wouldn’t swat a fly, you wouldn’t swat a mosquito - it could be some relative that’s been reincarnated downward. Now, we’ve got old age homes for cows over there - I’ve seen them! And Ahimsa - I’m not going to be violent. If I hit a fly it would be violent, so therefore disease runs rampant, and the people are so superstitious. Here’s a…I forget the name. I think it was the Feast of Divali, I cannot remember.
Tom: Kumbh Mela, the celebration among the Hindus, where they are following behind elephants eating and wiping their face in their dung and so on - it’s just unbelievable!
Dave: Well, Tom, in this particular festival everyone worships their instruments of trade. So, the secretaries, they put flowers on their typewriters, and the taxi drivers - the taxis are all decorated, and so forth, because everything is god. Now, when you’ve got something like that going, in spite of the brains of these people, you’re going to have serious problems. And Hindus themselves - not Hindus, I’m sorry - Indians who have dropped Hinduism have pointed this out. Hinduism is the problem with India. It has destroyed India, and just go over there and look at it. Now hopefully things might be improving but not until they change that religion, and this is the heart of yoga.
Tom: Dave, we’ve got just a couple of minutes left, but I want you to respond to this. Do you see the growing interest in this power as a fulfillment of prophecy according to 1 Timothy:4:1, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.”
Dave: Well, Tom, you could almost say, “Well, this has been going on forever,” so what would it have to do with the latter times?
Tom: Well, try yoga in the church! There you go!
Dave: Right. So, Paul says, “…shall depart from the faith,” and I have found that most of these people involved in this - where was I? in Wichita at this…I can’t remember the name, Tom, I could if I thought hard enough, but we don’t have time for that - but here was a…well, they’ve got a huge crystal hanging down and it’s scientific, medical research, but they are involved in yoga, they are involved in hypnosis, they are involved in trying to verify these psychic…
Tom: Now what is this, a church or what?
Dave: Oh, no, no, this is a scientific institution. I forget the name, it’s very famous there in Wichita. I asked the young man who was guiding us through, “You’ve got all these things. Is there a difference between, say, hypnosis and yoga or a Ouija board or…?
Dave: Well, no, I didn’t mention that. I named a number of things, and he said, “No, they are…” - oh, acupuncture, I mentioned. He said, “No, they are all variations on a theme. It’s the same power behind them but different ways to reach this power.” This was a scientific institution.
So, Tom, I don’t know how much we’ve got in about yoga here, but this is the basis of yoga, and the goal of yoga is to awaken the kundalini. And most people who are practicing yoga are into it for their health, and they maybe will never arouse the kundalini, but they ought to know what it really is, and this is the purpose. Now if you want to get physically fit, then do exercises designed for that. But if you want to yoke yourself with Brahman you’ve got a lot of problems coming up, which the yogis themselves will tell you, then practice yoga and get into it. But if you want to know the truth, Jesus Christ is the truth. If you want some spiritual deliverance, He’s the One who paid the penalty for our sins on the cross so that we could be forgiven - a righteous forgiveness, based upon the penalty being paid. And we just recommend anyone out there, if you do not know Jesus Christ, well, check up: Is He really who He claimed to be? Is the Bible true? Well, we would love to help you with that if you’ve got some questions, but otherwise you’re going to be what Luke Skywalker called the “dark side” of the Force. No, it’s not the dark side. It’s Satan, as opposed to Christ and God.
Gary: You’ve been listening to a special edition of Search the Scriptures 24/7 with Dave Hunt and T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter contact us at P.O. Box 7019 Bend, Oregon 97708. Call us at 800.937.6638. Or visit our website at the bereancall.org. I’m Gary Carmichael; thanks for joining us and we hope you can tune in again next week. Until then, we encourage you to Search the Scriptures 24/7.