STS Daily Program 1129
Drugs and Johnny’s Behavior
Tom: Thanks, Gary. And welcome to our ongoing discussion of Dave Hunt’s book Occult Invasion: The Subtle Seduction of the World and Church. Dave, you state in your book that our children are primary targets for the purveyors of occultism. Now, what brought you to that conclusion?
Dave: A lot of things, Tom. What happens in our public schools, the pushers of drugs—drugs, of course, being a primary doorway into the occult. The Bible comes down very hard in the New Testament on something called “sorcery.” And the Greek word is pharmakeia. The games and films, cartoons, that our young people, our children, even, are watching Saturday morning, or when they get home from school in the afternoon—they have heroes with magical powers that can be nothing less than occult. They’re not gods themselves, but they pass themselves off as gods—are capable of it. And whereas when I grew up as a child, fifty, sixty . . . yeah! sixty-five years ago, I was a child, we thought this was fantasy. Nobody took it seriously. Today, the kids believe it. And they’ve got all kinds of games that they play—Dungeons and Dragons . . . I mean, we played Monopoly, but I guess some kids will play that, but now, games involving occult powers—the video games! Not just the violence, but, again, occult powers. So, our children are being indoctrinated. If you looked at the heroes of the cartoons and video characters, you could make a pretty close correlation, even in their appearance, back to some of the gods, the idols, that were worshiped by pagans centuries ago. So, it is an astonishing indoctrination of our children.
Tom: Dave, let’s go back to your first point—drugs. Obviously, people are aware that drugs are a problem. I mean, we’ve been dealing with this since the sixties—mid-sixties, and so on. But now, the kids are really on prescription drugs. That’s a problem.
Dave: Well, you have a number of prescription drugs—I mean, not just for children, but of course for adults as well, but they get started . . . It used to be, Tom, we grew up being disciplined by our parents, being disciplined at school—if you cut in line . . . Some of the worst things you could do would be to shoot a spit wad, or talk in line, or something like that. Now, we have all kinds of violence in our schools, and the immorality has accelerated. Instead of disciplining them, instead, it’s “child abuse,” now, if you dare to discipline your children. Although the Bible says, if you spare the rod, you don’t really love your child, and if you really love your child, you will discipline them. Children need to learn that they don’t run the world, that other people have rights. But it’s “self-esteem,” now, that’s part of the problem, as well.
So if a child is difficult to discipline, or they have diagnosed it . . . they’ve come up with all kinds of new names for things, such as Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder, ADHD. You can cure it very quickly. Sit them down in front of a cartoon on TV and they just sit there, it’s got their attention . . .
Dave: Yeah, right!
Tom: Certainly not hyperactive!
Dave: We’ve cured it very well! Now, instead of discipline, “Well, there must be some psychological problem. . .” You can cure it with some new drug. The drug companies, of course, are making a lot of money on this, and they’re dreaming up these new diagnoses, so, a child goes in to a psychologist normal when they went in; when they come out, they’re labeled as having some kind of an aberrant function in their brain that causes them to behave in a certain way, and now they have a drug like Ritalin, for example . . .
Tom: Yeah, and the diagnosis normally comes from just talking to the individual. I mean, there’s no . . . when you’re talking about the brain, and activity in the brain, again, the diagnosis has to do with interviewing them.
Dave: They are not examining the brain, Tom, and, furthermore, the drug can do all kinds of things. The brain . . . and, look, I’m not an expert on this.
Tom: Yeah, there’s some common sense, here, though.
Dave: We have talked to the experts and read the experts, and the experts themselves will tell you the brain is the most complex organ – instrument, you could call it – you can’t create the brain. With a computer – you know what problems computers have, and to imagine that you’re going to give some kind of a drug that’s going to deal with certain substances that are generated in the brain and it’s going to regulate it, or whatever. It’s like a shotgun. It’s not like fine-tuning an engine. And, as you said, they have not gone in and checked this brain out to find out what causes a child to supposedly have an attention disorder, but now they’re getting a drug that you don’t even know what it will do. It has numerous effects, and read the list of the possible side effects, and you are throwing this at the most complex instrument in the universe, the brain! And now, this child is stuck on this thing, and they are stuck with this label, probably for the rest of their lives. It becomes an excuse, now, for their behavior.
I remember, for example, here’s a young mother and father. They have two sons, I think like three and five, playing with the neighbor boys next door, and saying what horrific behavior the neighbors’ children have, and that the mother will say, “Oh, I’m going to have to increase their medication.” There’s no such thing as discipline. There’s no such thing as learning self-control and the rights of other people, and that you have a place within society that you can’t run roughshod over others and just act the way you want.
But we don’t do that anymore. That’s not the problem. They need to “increase their medication,” or “change the medication.” And, Tom, this, I believe, is part of the problem. I couldn’t give you the statistics but I have read that a number of those who have been shooting others in school have been on some of these drugs.
Tom: Right! Psychotropic drugs such as Prozac, Luvox, Ritalin, and so on. This is the information that’s coming out. Let me give you a quote from the Washington Times: “There are nearly 6 million children in the US between the ages of 6 and 18 taking prescription mind-altering drugs.”
Dave, as you said, we’re not experts on the brain, even on drugs, to any great degree, but our concern here is, the Bible talks about “sorcery” in the last days, and as you mentioned early, “sorcery” has to do with . . . the Greek word is pharmakeia, but the idea is that it comes from “pharmacy.” The idea is that drugs are going to have a major effect in the last days — that we’re going to be overprescribed not only through legal drugs but through illegal drugs. We’re going to be a society of sorcerers, or the society in those last days that’s . . .
Dave: Tom, just common sense would tell anybody out there, whether they believe in the Bible or whether they believe in what we’re saying. Fifty years ago, you didn’t do this. Why is it that we have a raging—it seems to be a raging epidemic —of new mental illnesses? They keep adding to them and adding to the list, and so forth. “We’ve got to use these drugs.” Common sense would say, wait a minute! What did we do fifty years ago? What did we do a hundred years ago? What did these people who were pioneers, let’s say, who settled this country, and they’re fighting the elements and they’re carving their livelihood out of the wilderness and all of the problems they were up against. Why didn’t they have all of these problems? In fact, it is psychology itself and the drugs they are prescribing, because they’re making a lot of money off of them, which is creating these problems. I think common sense would tell you that!
But anyway, you were talking about that there’s something deeper involved, and that is the occultism they’re being led into.
Tom: Right. See, again, our point here is that there’s a conditioning going on with regard to our children. One of these has to do with the introduction of drugs. Now, we’re talking about prescription drugs here, but certainly, illegal drugs are so rampant. Marijuana, for example, is growing in its use. The drugs that were popular during the seventies, the late sixties, mid-sixties, late seventies, those are making a comeback. And we’re turning our children into sorcerers through the use of drugs.
Dave: Before you even get to sorcery again, the medical problem, the physical problem, the problem of what it does to your brain. Marijuana, for example. There’s a great push to legalize this, and people will say, “Well, we don’t have any problems, . . .” and so forth. I was being interviewed about this on a radio program recently, so I did some research. I have on my shelf books by experts that will tell you the scientific tests involved with these drugs, and marijuana is horrific what it will do!
Now, one of the things – that happened to be a call-in show, and one of the people who called in, in fact, he had produced a tract, I believe, and I had a copy of the tract saying how beneficial it could be and “why can’t we have freedom?”—that was one of the things: “Why can’t we have freedom to do this?”
Well, I responded that we do have the FDA. I’m not entirely happy with the FDA, but when I go in—you know me, Tom—when I go into, whether it’s a health food store or whatever it is, I like to read the label. Whether it’s bread or whatever. I don’t want all these chemicals and some of these things, and we still don’t even know how bad they are. There are drugs that have been out that have been licensed, and yet several years later they have to be pulled off of the shelf because of the harmful side effects.
So, I’m not complaining. Well, why doesn’t the FDA pass marijuana? The reason they haven’t passed it is because of the bad effects that it has. It can ruin your heart. It can ruin your brain. Ruin your emotions. Ruin your chromosomes, and so forth. And some of these people say, “Well, I’ve been using it, and it hasn’t bothered me.”
There are some very serious problems involved in these, and I’m concerned because they let too many of them out. Like Ritalin has all kinds of harmful side effects. . . .
Tom: Well, it’s basically Speed.
Dave: Tom, I had a call a few months ago from someone that I hadn’t talked to in years. They wanted to tell me that their dear friend had committed suicide, and she had been on Prozac. She seemed to be normal. Went out on a hill overlooking the city and, in fact was an officer in the city—I think on the city council, I can’t remember—but went up, and was heading for the meeting, went up on a hill and blew her brains out. There are so many suicides and cases of violence with people coming off of these drugs or who are using these drugs. So there are very serious physical, mental, and emotional problems that are created by them, and then they say, “Well, we’ll deal with it . . . handle that with more drugs.”
But now, the most serious is this matter of the occult that you were trying to get into and I keep interrupting you.
Tom: Dave, just to back up to what you were saying about . . . you mentioned Ritalin. Now, there are probably lots of people listening to us that are either on or — you, know, we mentioned Prozac, and so on—our concern here is that they . . . it’s over-prescription. I think if people used common sense, talked to their doctors, questioned these things . . .
Dave: Tom, let me interrupt again, I’m sorry. But not just over-prescription. I could tell you horror cases that I happen to know personally of young children, who instead of disciplining them, were put on Ritalin, all right? As they grew up into their teenage years, those children had never learned to discipline themselves. They hadn’t been disciplined by their parents. Always it’s excused: “Oh, that’s some problem that they had. Let’s give them a little more drugs,” or whatever, and now, when they’re in their 16 – 18 – 20s, they still have not learned, and now they get into some very serious problems.
And when instead of disciplining them, you give them these drugs, and you accept these so-called scientific diagnoses from the psychiatrist, it destroys their lives.
Tom: Yeah. Why does the Bible condemn these things? We talked about sorcery. What’s the problem here?
Dave: You’re opening a person to a new world. And, Tom, . . .
Tom: Dave, is the person in control? Let’s start with that aspect. For example, somebody on drugs—you mentioned some time ago about a police officer wanting to have somebody drive around with him, somebody who was pro-marijuana . . .
Dave: Right. “Drive around in our squad car and see what this really does out there in society.” Right.
Tom: If somebody has a conscience, recognizing right or wrong, don’t drugs affect that seriously?
Dave: They do, of course. Obviously. But beyond that, why does the Bible call it sorcery? Pharmakeia, Pharmakus? Why is it called sorcery? Because it opens you up to a world of the spirit. Tom, I’ve interviewed so many young people around the world who, through LSD, for example. Let’s talk about psychedelic drugs. Move on from these others. They—suddenly, they’re catapulted into a new dimension. They never knew it. They’ve met spirit guides! I remember one young man, why, he was initiated into Transcendental Meditation—given a mantra. He didn’t have to pay a dime to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He got the whole thing on a drug trip! He wasn’t expecting this.
Here’s another young person. He was led into astrology and spirit beings. He didn’t know who they were, but suddenly, on this trip, here are these spirit entities who are telling him how the stars, the positions of the planets when he was born, and so forth, affect his life—laid the whole thing out before him in living color. He had never read anything about astrology! He wasn’t even interested in it before, and now he’s being taught it. This is what happens.
And then, in our public schools . . .
Tom: But, Dave, that’s nothing . . . I think the point we want to get across here is that we’re not telling people anything . . . maybe they’ve heard it for the first time, but this is not new. This is the heart and basis of shamanism. This is the heart and basis of witchcraft.
Dave: Exactly. So this has been going on for a long time, and the techniques that are now in our public schools, we’re even . . . forget drugs, now. Okay? Suppose you’re not on drugs. Now, we’re being taught techniques — our children in grammar school —are being taught techniques of visualization. Even visualizing a spirit guide (they don’t call it that), a “wise person.” Well, even in Nebraska, for example, and some other states, it’s called Duso the Dolphin. I don’t know if they’re still using Duso the Dolphin. Maybe they’ve moved on to something else, but they have been. And you “go” under water – visualize yourself under water – visualize this dolphin coming to you, talk to him, and he will talk back! And this is your guide . . .
Tom: This is basic shamanism. This is nothing new.
Dave: This is how the witchdoctors find their spirit guides. But then, they use them for magical powers, and so forth. So, we’re being taught this.
Tom, here’s a Montana mother, discovered that her fourth grader’s class – this is what they’re being taught, now – they were supposed to pretend that they were part of a mythical Indian tribe. This was an exercise in a public school, and this is symptomatic of what’s going on. The children were in to imagine themselves going on this “quest” alone in the wilderness to prove they’re worthy of passing into adulthood, which is actually done by North American tribes. And the quest was . . . these are kids in grammar school! They’re learning about Indian tribes, and in the process of learning about them, they try to go on this quest to do what the Indian tribes would do. And she studied the lesson, and the children were being introduced to a mythical youth from a tribe that was “known to have great shamans” — great witchdoctors. And they were to follow this witchdoctor into a deep canyon, “where,” it says—I’m quoting now, from . . .this is a public school manual— “you feel many spirits rising. And they’re calling upon you to come in and to visit this incredible place.”
And now the children were to go into this in their imagination, and they were to write a paper describing their adventures there. This is basic occultism. You couldn’t tell them a story of Jesus. You couldn't introduce the Bible into public schools. But now we can take them off into the world of the occult.
Tom: Dave, this is by no means unique, as you know, but for our listening audience, I mean, we could spend hours giving them examples from curriculum. Let me read something to you —well, this is from your book, as you know, but this is from the curriculum READ, which is a nationwide language arts program. “Close your eyes and breathe deeply to relax. Picture in your mind a place. Become acquainted with your surroundings. Ask to meet a guide – an animal, person, or being will accompany you and give you whatever power you might need. Watch what this new companion does or shows you. Listen to what it says. Go wherever this guide wants to lead you. You are safe.”
This is basic shamanism, basic occultism.
Dave: We haven’t explained shamanism, I guess. “Shaman” is a word that anthropologists have adopted around the world for “witchdoctor,” medicine man, whatever. So this is shamanism. They’re leading them into the occult, and, Tom, it sounds like we’re idiots or fanatics or whatever, but this is very, very serious business.
Tom: Dave, you gave some of your background. Let me give you something that concerns me. You know, I grew up—I was a child during the ‘50s, and that was a time I would call a time of nominal Christianity. Everybody sort of—you know, I’m not saying they were committed Christians, but they had an understanding of what Christianity was about, and it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t that it was accepted by everybody . . .
Dave: A superficial understanding.
Tom: . . .but people understood it—a superficial understanding.
Dave: And they sort of accepted it.
Tom: Right. In the mid-fifties to the seventies, I think we moved into sort of a post-Christian era, particularly in this country, to the point that people were starting to entertain other ideas about God, particularly Eastern Mysticism, you know: this was the drug era, the drug culture. I think today (and I don’t have any doubt about it), we’re in an “anti-Christian” era, particularly with regard to education and the government controls, and so forth. So now, these kids that we’re talking about, who are being introduced to occultism, shamanism, and so on, they don’t have any basis for rejecting it, or saying, “Well, that’s not what I believe about God,” because this is the generation from the generation of the drug generation that said, “Hey, whatever our kids want, we’re not going to push them into any kind of organized religion, or anything like that. They’re going to find their own way.”
Tom: Well, so my point is that they’re susceptible to all kinds of ideas about God and they have no basis for discerning truth.
Dave: In fact, they’re told there is no truth. If it works for you, that’s okay. Go ahead, experiment, try it out, and see how it works.
Tom: Right. This is our concern. We believe—and we’ll talk about this more next week—this is a preparation that’s taking place to condition children, the next generation, to receive more and more of what’s going to make them vulnerable to what we believe is an antichrist religion and antichrist government.
Dave: And, Tom, the reason why we’re mentioning this is because there are a lot of people listening—Christian or non-Christian parents—and they are not aware of what is happening to their children in public school. They’re not aware of what they’re being taught. They’re not aware of the ideas that are being presented to them. We would just suggest, check up on it. Find out. Ask your children. Get involved with their education. Find out what they are being taught. And, of course, what they’re learning from their peers out there, as well. And from the teachers, from the media. Watch what they’re watching. And I think it would behoove each parent to really get involved in their children’s lives and find out what’s happening to them.