Tom: In this segment, we’ve been going over the Gospel of Salvation. We’ve been doing it for a number of weeks. Again, Dave, I keep repeating myself here, there’s so much about this awesome, awesome doctrine—it has to do with our eternal life and all that Christ has done. So, we’re going to keep hanging in there with this, because I think that all the information in scriptures that we deal with, it’s just wonderfully edifying, encouraging—especially for those who maybe haven’t given some thought to how important salvation, the doctrine of salvation—you know, we’re not in a time where doctrine is looked upon…well, it’s considered to be divisive. But it’s not! It is the truth that God has revealed to us.
Dave: My problem, Tom, is I can’t remember from week to week what we said last time, so I hope we don’t duplicate it too much.
Tom: Well, I’m trying to go over my notes here, as far as they’ll take us. But last time, as a matter of fact, what we discussed was—you gave kind of a capsulization—a summary of what the gospel is, and we’re going to keep doing that. Just keep reminding ourselves as well as others out there. But the…
Dave: Let me interrupt you. To say, “The gospel is the power of God unto salvation,” Romans:1:16, “for those who believe.” So, the gospel determines whether we’re saved or not. This is God telling us how we’re going to be with Him for eternity.
Tom: Right. And when we talk about salvation, we have to have a Savior. We went over some scriptures that just declare over and over again that the Savior—God alone is the Savior.
Tom: But what about Jesus? God sent Jesus to become a man—God incarnate. And you mentioned last week how Christ had to be a man. He has to be God, but He also has to be a man in order to pay the penalty for our sins. So I want to just go down through a list of qualifications. We said He must be God, but He also had to be human, and He had to be perfect.
Dave: Well, let’s explain why He had to be God.
Dave: Because…well, first of all, God says so. All through the Old Testament God says, “I am the only Savior.” Now, there are logical reasons for it. God’s justice is infinite. We have violated infinite justice. We could never pay the penalty. We’d be separated eternally from God. God could pay the penalty, but that wouldn’t be just, because…I mean, He’s infinite, but He’s not a man, so God became a man. So this is why only God, as a man, could be our Savior—because He alone could satisfy the claims of His infinite justice. No man could do that.
Tom: Now that’s the explanation, but we also know, as God’s Word laid it out, there are qualifications. We’ve talked about Isaiah:9:6: “For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given. And the government will be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, the everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” One qualification for the Savior-to-come. He alone can save the world from its sins.
Dave: Well, this is, of course, talking about the Messiah. And most Jewish people don’t accept what their scriptures say. They think the Messiah would be a great man. Yeah! But He has to be God. He has to be the Lord. And it’s very clear. Jesus said, “I and my Father are one.” And here we have the babe born in Bethlehem, the Son that was given, is called also the Father.
So, it’s very clearly laid out. I just gave you the logic of it. But now you’re bringing us to the scriptures, and this one…the Savior is going to be the Messiah of Israel. And then He is going to save the whole world, not just Israel. And the requirements for the Messiah—who He would be—are very specific. And they’re very clear. You can’t escape it! So, if a person is going to say they’re “saved,” or they’re going to be “accepted of God,” or they’re going to call themselves a Christian, you’d better go by what God says. You can’t make up your own deal. It won’t work, okay? So that’s what you’re laying out now.
Tom: Yeah, but let’s back up to our earlier segments. Not in this group, but today, for example—we’re talking about the Antichrist. How are you going to recognize the Antichrist? Well, it’s simple. He’s going to make certain claims—you read the scriptures: the claim to be God. But if he is going to be a “christ,” if He’s going to be the Christ, he has to conform to what the Bible lays out. Are there qualifications to be Christ? He’s got to be a perfect human. First Peter 1:18-19…
Tom: Right. “Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, but with the precious blood of Christ, as a Lamb without blemish and without spot.”
Dave: You’ve got that in the Old Testament sacrifices—they had to be without blemish.
Tom: Well, Hebrews:7:26-28: “For such a high priest who was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled…” Now, these are characteristics of the Christ, the Messiah.
Tom: Our Savior. “…separate from sinners and has become higher than the heavens, who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices first for his own sins…” He had no sins, right?
Tom: “…and then for the people, for this he did once for all when he offered up himself, for the law appoints as high priest men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.”
Dave: Tom, let me interject: the things that you are explaining from the Bible, that we’re talking about now, are vitally important! On the one hand, it sounds very simple. The Philippian jailer says, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” Paul and Silas say, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”
But that doesn’t mean just believe that there was some character named Jesus. It means you must believe in Jesus Christ as He is. The true Jesus Christ. Now, we’re describing from the Bible—you’re not making it up; I’m not making it up. The Bible is telling us who the Savior is! It’s telling us the qualities that He must possess. And if anyone out there listening to our voices—and I’m not trying to push our ideas on them, but I’m just suggesting: you’d better give heed to the Bible. If you believe in a Jesus Christ who isn’t God, who didn’t die for your sins, who isn’t perfect, who didn’t rise the third day and who’s not coming back, and so forth, you’ve got the wrong Jesus! This is what the Bible calls “another Jesus,” and another gospel.
And that’s why we’re discussing this in such depth.
Tom: And it’s critical—this day of ecumenism, we’re reducing Jesus down to somebody who’s acceptable to everybody! Well, Jesus, who is the Son of God, is not acceptable to everybody. We have different—as you said—we have different ideas. But if we reduce him to the lowest common denominator so everybody can accept him, we’ve got a false Jesus!
Dave: For example, some people say, “Well, you teach them about this pre-trib rapture, you know. And you say that Christians aren’t going to face the Antichrist—they’re going to be gone, and then the Antichrist will appear. Well, supposing you’re wrong! Supposing they have to face the Antichrist! And they could be deceived if he pretends to be Christ, they could be deceived.”
Well, wait a minute! Jesus Christ, when He comes back, is going to take us to heaven. The Antichrist can’t do that. So anybody that comes along and claims to be Christ and doesn’t catch you…in fact, we meet Him in the air! That’s what the Bible says, very specific. He’s not coming to this earth to meet His own. He’s catching us up from this earth to meet Him in the air, okay? Furthermore, He will bear the marks of Calvary. They’re not bleeding, like Padre Pio. His (Christ’s) blood was poured out upon the cross, but He has a hole so big in His side that He could tell Thomas, “Thrust in your hand! Put it in!” So Antichrist doesn’t do that.
He’s not a resurrected man who has no blood flowing through his veins, and so forth. So what we’re talking about is very important, because you could be following Antichrist instead of Christ.
Tom: You know, I hate to drive people crazy with this, but they’re going to keep hearing it. “What does the Bible say?” “What does the Bible say?” “What does the Bible say?” This is God’s…
Dave: Now, why do we say, “What does the Bible say?” Because, Tom, nobody else…no one else’s opinion matters!
Tom: Right. This is God’s revelation! This isn’t something that man made up, and the Bible can prove that! I mean, we’ve mentioned it before, so, we’re appealing to His Word…
Tom: …to know His Son. We’re going down through a list of qualifications—not that you made up or I made up, but God says, “Here is My Son. The Savior of the world. These are His characteristics, His qualities. This is what He has done and does.”
Dave: This is why He’s the Savior. The only Savior. And this is what you’ve got to believe. Well, Tom, let’s put it like this—and, you know, I think I’m a mild-mannered person; most people tell me that when they meet me…
Tom: You’re a cupcake, Dave.
Dave: Yeah, right. But, look, if somebody—I don’t care what robes he wears; I don’t care how big the church is, how fancy, or how old the church is, if he is claiming to represent God and represent Jesus, but he doesn’t teach you from the Bible, and you can’t check out what he says from the Bible, I don’t care what he calls himself, what titles he has, or who he claims to be. Wait a minute! I want to go to the Word of God. I want to know what God said. And, in fact, that’s what we’re trying to do on this program.
Tom: Dave, what did Jesus say to those two who walked on the road to Emmaus?
Dave: He said, “Fools…” He called them fools, actually! I’m sorry!
Tom: You don’t have to apologize for our Lord. I mean, that was a good point. We are foolish, to the point of delusion, if we don’t heed what He says.
Dave: He said, “Fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!” So, I’ve got to go the prophets. And when Paul preached the gospel in Romans chapter 1 (we’ve said this many times; we’ll probably keep saying it) he said that he was “…separated… an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God.” He didn’t use some denominational name, and he said…How do you know the gospel of God?” He said, “He promised it by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures.”
So, if Christianity is not the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophets—what they had to say—then don’t follow it! It’s nothing.
Tom: Jesus also said, “You err, not knowing the scriptures. There’s something that we truly need to take heed to.
Dave: He said that to the religious leaders…
Tom: Right! And it’s an encouragement to us: “To the Law and to the Testimony!” Isaiah wrote. “If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them.”
Dave: And this is no just some conversation we’re having, Tom. The issue is the eternal destiny of your soul.