How Many Signs Do We Need to See Before We Believe?

Tom: We’re continuing with the gospel. We’re in the gospel of John:20:29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
See All...: “Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, yet have believed.” Dave, during times people said—well, today we’re in a very visual generation, actually, time in history, in which television, movies—well, movies, by the way, are the most popular form of entertainment in the world today, and it’s worldwide. We’re a visually oriented generation, as somebody said.

Dave: And it’s the way that the church increasingly thinks they can explain the Bible through movies.

Tom: Well, that’s my question: does this verse—can you apply this verse to the visual presentation, whether it be art, paintings, videos, and so on—does it apply here with regard to our Lord?

Dave: Well, Tom, I think it’s saying—not paintings or visual representations, but clearly what Thomas saw was Christ hyimself…

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Dave: …and so Jesus is saying, “Well, you have seen me for yourself, raised from the dead, there’s no doubt about it and that caused you to believe, but blessed are those who haven’t had that experience and yet have believed.” Now, a movie where an actor is pretending to be Jesus and so forth, I would say that that’s not quite the real thing! But that’s the best we can do right now.

Tom: Well, Dave, nevertheless, we have people seeing this actor on the screen, whether it be The Gospel of John, or The Gospel of Matthew, Judas, you know, all of these different films and videos that are available—they hold in their heart and mind an image of what they’ve seen on the screen, and we know from emails that we’ve received, in some cases, people have said, “That is Jesus. That’s my Jesus!” We have Jim Caviezel in Mexico, and the people are coming up to him, looking for miracles, looking for him to do something.

Dave: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, Tom, I have to go back and correct myself. I said, “That’s the best we can do.” What I meant was, that’s the best people can do without the real Jesus, but it is not good. It is a false Christ, which we have dealt with a number of times. Well, now, “Blessed are they that have not seen but have believed”—how would you be able to believe without physically seeing? And yet the writer to the Hebrews in chapter 2 says, “Now we see Jesus.”

You know, seeing has a physical and a spiritual meaning to it. When I say, “Can’t you see what I’m trying to say?” I’m talking about a nonphysical understanding, and there are those who have never seen Christ in the flesh and yet—and certainly I’m one of them—but by the testimony of the apostles, by the testimony of His Word, by the proof that we have of Scripture that the gospel is true, and by the witness of the Holy Spirit within our hearts we believe and we know, and in fact the Bible says, this is the way we are to know now. We walk by faith and not by sight.

And yet, Tom, we’ve mentioned some Christian authors in the last program or the one before who have written books and suggested that what you need to do is visualize Jesus, and then you will really get the picture, and of course, that’s wrong, that is the…visualization is the most powerful occult technique, but it goes against what the Scripture says. We walk by faith, not by sight, so an attempt to visualize Jesus, or, Tom, I would have to put movies in the same category, an attempt to have an actor portray Jesus on the screen is literally going against what the Bible teaches. It’s no longer walking by faith, but it’s walking by sight. Problem is, it’s a phony sight. It’s not the real thing. So, we’re actually undermining what the Bible says. Our faith is to be in the Word of God and it is the Word of God that has the power. This is the Word by which the gospel is preached. “Thy Word is a lamp to my feet, a light to my path….Thy words were found, I did eat them….Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word…” Jesus Christ is called the Living Word, not the living picture. So, once again, Tom, I think Jesus is giving us a powerful lesson here. Doubting Thomas did see Jesus literally…

Tom: Mm-hmm.

Dave: …but that was only possible for very few people. But there is another way of seeing, and that is what we need to understand, and this is where our faith comes from.

Tom: Mm-hmm. Dave, this is in the ballpark, but a little bit aside. I want to go back to your book, Seeking and Finding God. Because you make a statement here: you say, “It was the judgement Christ endured at the hands of God and payment of the penalty for our sin that makes it possible for God to offer salvation. That suffering endured by Christ was totally invisible to man and must ever be. It is by faith alone that we believe Christ paid the penalty and we receive the eternal salvation He offers.” You also mentioned that it’s in the invisible.

Dave: Mm-hmm.

Tom: Now, here’s the question that I have…

Dave: That’s a very good point, Tom. (Unintelligible)

Tom: But also, it raises a question in my mind…

Dave: All right. Mm-hmm.

Tom: …because certainly, Jesus paid the penalty on the cross…

Dave: Right.

Tom: …and we’ll never know—there are some indications from the Scripture, from Isaiah, for example, about the distortion in Jesus’ face—in other words, there were some described physical manifestations of what He was going through, with regard to paying the infinite penalty for our sins…

Dave: Mm-hmm.

Tom: …but, the penalty is physical death. Now, how does that line up with the invisible aspects you’re referring to?

Dave: Well, Tom, the penalty is not just physical death.

Tom: It’s not just, but it’s part of that, isn’t it?

Dave: Oh, of course that’s part of it, but we weren’t there when He died, you know…

Tom: Right.

Dave: …but those who saw Him die, they saw that. But He took the second death—“He tasted death for every man. The second death is the lake of fire. Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. There’s something worse than physical death. Death is separation from the body, from this world, from your life, and so forth. A spiritual death—the death, finally, the second death is total separation from God, forever and forever and forever, and Christ had to be God in order to endure this. This is an infinite price that He paid, the lake of fire, for every person forever. So, we will never see that, we will never understand it. We couldn’t possibly, because we’re finite beings, and this was an infinite price He paid.

Well, it goes on, and it says, “In many other signs, truly did Jesus, in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that, believing, you might have life through His Name.” The Scripture also tells us that He did so many miracles, so many things, that you couldn’t put them all in books; the whole world couldn’t contain the books that would be written.

Tom: Dave, some say that that’s why it’s okay to look to other gospels, the gospel of Thomas, and all these things, because they would say, “You see, they weren’t written in this book, they were written in other books. Why not go to them?”

Dave: Well, verse 31, I think gives us the answer: “These are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, you might have life through His Name.” This, the gospel—John, and the other gospels, and the Bible—this is what God decided we ought to know about what Jesus did. We can’t handle everything, but this is what God decided we should know, and that has been recorded for us under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for this purpose: that we would come to believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that through believing in Him, we would receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Therefore, the idea of some other gospel that somebody else wrote—that just does not fit with what the Bible here says.