Is The Human Heart Depraved...Or Not?

Now, Contending for the Faith.In this regular feature Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and readers of The Berean Call.Here is this week’s question:“Dear Dave and TA:Read Luke:8:11-15 [11] Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. [12] Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. [13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. [14] And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. [15] But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
See All..., and please tell me how Verse 15 jells with the depravity of the human heart?Thanks for taking my question.”

Tom:

Luke chapter 8, I’ll start with verse 11, “Now the parable is this:The seed is the Word of God.Those by the wayside are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasure of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.”So, Dave, I guess the problem this questioner has is, how can someone have, as it says in Verse 15, “which in an honest and good heart” how can somebody have a heart like that who is depraved?I mean, I know that certainly the Calvinist would say there’s a contradiction here.I mean, they wouldn’t accuse Jesus of that, but there’s a problem with total depravity.

Dave:

Well, Tom, there are many verses in the Bible the Calvinists avoid very carefully.They avoid most of the Old Testament because it does talk about the honest heart.It talks about willingly from the heart.It talks about a free will offering all through there, and I don’t find any Calvinist in any book dealing with those passages.And the same thing with this passage.

Tom:

Well, Dave, you yourself, and we’ve quoted Jeremiah:17:9The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
See All... many times and Calvinists aside, The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who could can know it.

Dave:

Well, Tom, it doesn’t mean that the heart is incapable of saying or doing something that is right.In other words---Wow!We would be basket cases, you couldn’t believe anything anybody said, but he’s telling us that this is our nature.But we can also turn to the Lord.You know, you have Isaiah 55, Let the wicked forsake his way, the unrighteous man his thoughts.Let him turn unto the Lord, He’ll have mercy upon him.When Jesus says:Come unto Me, or He says, Whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely.Okay.So, when in Genesis chapter 6, God looks down and He sees that the imagination of man’s heart is only evil continually.It doesn’t mean that you couldn’t have a decent thought, because Abimelech the king, for example, Abraham deceived him.He said that Sarah was his sister.And Abimelech the king, says to Abraham after that, you know, rebuking him:I have done nothing but good to you.And Jesus says:The wicked know how to do good, do good to their children, if you do good to those who do good to you, and so forth.So, somehow you are going to turn to the Lord honestly and sincerely, this is why it says:If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine hearts.Well, how could you believe in your heart if the heart is totally deceitful above all things and desperately wicked?So, it’s telling us what we are by nature, but nevertheless, we can turn to the Lord, we can receive the Lord.It takes the Holy Spirit to draw us, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t make a choice.

Tom:

Respond of Him in honesty, with integrity.

Dave:

Right, He says, Choose you this day whom you will serve.So Tom, we have two possibilities for a person who turns to the Lord.Well no, it has to be totally of God, it’s not anything of himself, he doesn’t make a choice.So, the Calvinist says:We are born again, we are regenerated without even knowing it before we believe, and only after we’ve been regenerated then can God give us the faith.So then, we have this problem---Well then, God does not want everyone saved.He could cause everyone to be saved if He wanted to.He could regenerate everyone and give them faith if He wanted to.But wait a minute!No, because it’s a choice that we must make.Either we have a choice or we don’t have a choice.So, if you would go--there are so many verses--1Timothy 2:4, He is not willing that any should perish.What do you mean, He’s not willing that any should perish.Well, He predestined millions or billions to hell before they were even born.No, He did not!Well, yeah, but God has to give them irresistible grace or they couldn’t believe.So, if He’s not willing that any should perish, and He is the only one who does this, we have no choice in this ourselves because we are totally depraved, then the only reason that everyone is not saved is because God does not want everybody to be saved.But the Bible clearly says He wants everyone to be saved.He wants all to come to the knowledge of the truth.And the Bible ends with the last chapter in the Bible:Let him that is athirst come--whosoever will--Let him take ofthe water of life freely.And Tom, I would just say that is a wicked thing for God to say:You want to come to Me?Come to me whoever will and take of the water of life freely.Ah, but I can’t do it unless you cause me to, unless you regenerate me first, unless you give me irresistible grace.Then why are you telling me to come?It doesn’t make sense.I think it maligns the very character of God.

Tom:

I couldn’t agree more, but it is a difficult passage, you know, The Calvinist would say, Of course, a person who is going to have an honest and good heart, it’s because that’s what God gave him, irresistible grace.

Dave:

No, but Tom, let me object, quickly.The emphasis is upon the good ground, the emphasis is upon the ground.The emphasis is not upon the sower who sows the seed, or upon even the seed, but the emphasis is upon the ground.The honest heart is the good ground.The emphasis is upon our responsibility, and there are so many verses in the Bible.Jesus said, According to your faith.Peter writes, The trial of your faith being more precious than gold that perisheth.What’s the trial about if it’s all of God?He gives us the faith, He causes us to believe, and furthermore, if it’s God who causes us to believe, why don’t we all live a perfect Christian life?And why is there a judgment seat of Christ, and why are there rewards?It doesn’t make any sense, Tom!