Lutherans and Catholics Together

Now, Religion in the News…. This week’s item is from the ZENIT News Service, dateline Rome, November 2, 2000: “The historic Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification signed a year ago by Lutherans and Catholics is having positive repercussions. The Declaration, signed October 31, 1999, in Augsburg, Germany, touched on a key misunderstanding over the mystery of salvation and the principle reason for the division between Catholics and Lutherans. With the signing, reciprocal condemnations of the past were forgotten. Since then, prayer meetings between Catholics and Lutherans have multiplied in Germany and elsewhere.

“The consequences have surprised church figures. Lutheran bishop, Christian Krause, president of the World Lutheran Federation, said, over Vatican Radio, ‘I didn’t expect it. There has been great appreciation for this consensus, reached by the two churches, which has demolished secular prejudices. This fact has important repercussions in the process of European integration.’

“For his part, Father Aldo Giordano, of Vatican Radio, Secretary General of the Council of European Episcopal Conferences, or CCEE, explained that Christians now have a new responsibility toward Europe, as was clearly seen during the first meeting of Bishops of the Old Continent, with members of Parliament and the European Commission. ‘Now we feel that together we must contribute to give an ethical [solution?] and respond to the search for the meaning of existence, which is evident in Europe,’ Father Giordano said.

“He further stated, ‘During the meeting with Directors of European Institutions, they told us that this is our task, the task of Christian confession. Of course, the churches can only give this meaning together.’

“Archbishop Walter Casper, secretary of the pontifical council for promoting Christian unity, who worked for years in the International Catholic-Lutheran Theological Commission, said, ‘The joint signing was a very important event, because we found a point of agreement on the core of the gospel: What does Jesus Christ mean to me personally?’ That was Luther’s question, and it is also the question today.

“’The new step that Catholics and Lutherans must now take at the theological level is an in-depth study of the different views of the church,’ Archbishop Casper said. ‘We have much in common,’ he added, ‘but the Catholic Church is a sacramental and hierarchal church, while the protestant church and communities are centered on the Word of God. However, we can learn from them, because since the Second Vatican Council, we have also understood the importance of the Bible, of the Word of God. Moreover, Protestants now also understand the importance of the Liturgy, of symbols, of sacraments, and so on. There is a mutual exchange between Protestants and Catholics, but there still are problems, as, for example, the ministry of bishops, and the ministry of the pope.

“This different view of the church was highlighted in Dominus y Isus, the recent Vatican document which reiterated magisterial teaching that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church. Father Giordano said that the ecumenical reality is going through a delicate time. European bishops are aware of this. This does not mean that the need for an evolutionary leap in ecumenism is not perceived.

“Archbishop Casper concluded, ‘I am not pessimistic about the future. I have hope. And my hope is based on the conviction that the ecumenical way is the work of the Holy Spirit. And who can stop the Holy Spirit?’”

Tom: Dave, this was rather lengthy, but there are some items in here I think deserver going over. First of all, the impression is, Hey, everything worked out well. What was your problem? What was my problem, with this, not only this ecumenical dialog, but this signing of a historic joint declaration? The second thing is, there seems to be an emphasis here on the bishops of Europe—that there’s a very European thrust here to make everything work out among the churches there, so that says something about the Last Days, I kind of think. Eschatology especially.

And finally, the Holy Spirit. This is the work of the Holy Spirit, and who can stop the Holy Spirit? I don’t think so!

Dave: Well, Tom, I’m sorry. It’s…what can I say? It’s sad! They don’t talk about any substance. The…I guess we’ve talked about this before. The whole Reformation began over indulgences. Martin Luther was upset they were selling “tickets to heaven” for money. These were indulgences. He wrote out 95 complaints against it; nailed it to the door of the Wittenberg Castle chapel. And while they are in their final negotiations over this document, the pope is giving more indulgences! You gave up cigarettes for a day in the year 2000, you got forgiveness of sins. He opened four holy doors in Rome. You walk through those doors, you get forgiveness of sins. Pilgrims came from all over the world.

In other words, it’s the same thing. That document—not one iota has changed in the Roman Catholic Church. What’s the point? What’s all the big celebration about? Tom, it makes no sense. In other words, what they’re interested in is a pretense of unity. If we can just say that we’re united, and let’s be ecumenical; we want an evolutionary leap in ecumenism that says…. I don’t know what in the world that means…

Tom: It says, “We found a point of agreement on the core of the gospel: ‘What does Jesus Christ mean to me personally?’”

Dave: Tom, if the document is titled, “Joint Declaration on Justification by Faith,” and justification by faith does not involve indulgences. It does not involve walking through holy doors. It’s just that simple. It does not involve wearing scapulars. Now, you were a Catholic. Catholics are still wearing scapulars. You look on one end of it, it says, “Whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”

Now, what kind of a God lets you out of hell because you wear a scapular? They wear medals, they do penance—nothing…you tell me…nothing has changed. And yet, they got…theologians got together and said, “We’re now in agreement,” and if you read the document, which you have, and I have, I’ve underlined it and so forth—it’s very theological, philosophical language; very difficult for an ordinary person to understand—and then, after they sign it, they say, “But we still have many problems that remain.”

In other words, the key issues still have not been resolved, but let’s say we’re in agreement so that everyone will think so, and this will move… It’s very interesting in that document. This is going to play an important role in uniting Europe, so the theologians, along with the politicians, their aim is we’re going to unite. And if we can sign documents—it’s like signing a peace accord with the PLO in Israel! They still have it in their hearts to destroy Israel but will sign a peace agreement and pretend…. This is what’s happening, but the delusion and the deceit and the false impression that is given to people, that’s what concerns me, Tom.

Tom: Dave, briefly, we talked about Europe—a united Europe—and this being more political than, certainly, spiritual, and the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with this. Where is this going?

Dave: Well, you had the largest gathering of religious leaders in history at the United Nations at the end of August. Then you had the largest gathering early in September. This was August 2000 and September, at the United Nations. Political leaders. And this is where we’re going. We have to have a one-world religion and a one-world government, exactly what the Bible says. And this is playing an important role. That’s what the article says, and bringing that about.