Is the Pope a Qualified Exorcist?

Gary: Now, Religion in the News….  This week’s item is from the National Catholic Reporter, September 22, 2000: “Pope John Paul II performed an impromptu exorcism at the close of his audience September 6. But according to Rome’s chief exorcist, the demon was unmoved. Father Don Gabriele Amorth, head of an international association of Catholic exorcists, spoke to the Daily Il Messaggero about the incident.

“He said that a nineteen-year-old woman became agitated during the audience, attracting the attention of a bishop standing nearby. When attempts to calm her with a crucifix and a medal of the Virgin Mary failed, the bishop summoned the papal secretary, who informed John Paul. The pope met with the woman for a half hour, exorcising her, and promising to offer Mass for her the following morning. Amorth told Il Messaggero that he had been working with the woman and met with her again the following day. “Her demon,” he said, “stayed put, despite the papal effort. If you knew how content the devil was,” Amorth said, “he sent the poor girl to sneer at me: ‘Your boss was not able to do anything against me.’

“The September 6 incident marks, according to Il Messaggero, the third exorcism performed by John Paul. The craft of exorcism, after a period of dormancy following the Second Vatican Council from 1962-65 appears to be making a comeback in contemporary Catholicism.”

Tom: Dave, this news article has come out, and we’ll see more of this, because a couple of months ago they just had a reissue of the movie The Exorcist, and, of course, now they’ve added little things to it, and so on, but it’s supposed to be more exciting than ever. But this business of exorcism—you know, I’ve read a lot of the material that the Catholic Church has issued on that, and it’s been since the 17^th Century they’ve had documents stating how a priest was to go about exorcism. And they’ve revised that of late, changing the language, but not changing the content, but you find that in their thrust to do this there is a ritual involved. But that’s not the biblical way, is it?

Dave: No. Rituals are of no value. Rituals work in “magic,” and magic, demonic—witchdoctors have certain rituals they go through; sacramentalism is related to the rituals. The idea that a ritual has some spiritual value and power just is contrary both to common sense and to the Word of God.

For example, it’s closely related to scapulars and medals. I have a scapular that I keep in the Bible to show people. On one end of it, it says, “Whosoever dies wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.” Well, two problems: number one, if you believe Christ paid the penalty for your sins, you don’t need a scapular. Number two, what kind of a God delivers you from eternal fire because you wear a scapular? It’s like the fetishes and so forth in the pagan world.

So, a ritual to exorcise demons is the same. What, does this impress demons? Are they impressed that you go through some ritual? Or does God’s power depend upon you going through some ritual? Where in the Bible does it say that God’s power can be released by some ritual?

Now you have the same idea with many of the so-called “faith teachers.” You know, “Touch my hand…”

Tom: Deliverance ministries.

Dave: Right. “This is a point of contact.” And even Oral Roberts had people light candles, you know. He lit the red candle while they lit the green candle, and this starts miracles flowing? What kind of a god releases his power because you go through some ritual?

So we know first of all that the ritual isn’t right. Secondly…

Tom: Dave, let me just add one thing to that. When I was doing research on the apparitions, there was a funny asp—well, funny…at least an interesting aspect with regard to Saint Bernadette and Our Lady of Lourdes. She wanted to test to see if this apparition was really true, and so what she did was when the apparition appeared, she tried to douse it with holy water. Well, the apparition smiled at her, and said, “This is the way to do it!” So, the apparition itself re-enforced the ritual, which is a problem, isn’t it?

Dave: Right. There’s no such thing as “holy” water. You won’t find it in the Bible. When Jesus said to the woman at the well, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again. The water that I give will be in him a well of water springing up to everlasting life. You drink of the water that I give, you will never thirst again.” Jesus is not talking about some kind of H₂O that has been blessed. He’s talking about spiritual life and power and truth and reality, and it does not come about through physical rituals. But that is a tragedy that people are trusting in this. The medals they wear, the scapulars.

The pope has worn a scapular since childhood. God does not honor those things, and you can wave a crucifix at a demon, and they will laugh at you. And you can throw holy water on the apparition, and, as you said, it will smile.

Tom: Unless they’re trying to reinforce this idea, this false idea.

Dave: Well, but of course they’re reinforcing it, but throwing holy water that’s been blessed isn’t going to frighten a demon. And waving a crucifix is not going to frighten the demon.

Tom:  In reality, it’s not.

Dave: It’s what happened on that cross, who Jesus Christ is, and so forth. It’s like the seven sons of Sceva the Jew. They came to the demon-possessed man and said, “In the name of Jesus whom Paul preaches, get out!” And the demon said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know. Who are you?”

So the next question is what is a demon? How did it get in this person? What is the basis of its power? And what good will it do to cast it out?

Now, we’ve talked about it before. Jesus said, “A demon is cast out. Unless something is put in its place, it wanders through dry places,” Christ said, and it comes back and it finds its old “house” is swept and clean, it looks pretty nice. It brings seven demons worse than itself. They inhabit it, and the end of that person is worse than the beginning!

So, just casting out a demon, even if that were actually done (and that is biblical). Jesus said, “Go into all the world, preach the gospel, make disciples,” and so forth. And “You are to heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons,” and so forth. And this can be done, if it is God’s will.

Number 1, it must be God’s will. It must be God’s time to do this. Number 2, I believe a person must be willing. If you cast a demon out of a person who really wants to be demon possessed, they’re only going to bring it back in again. So, it’s not the ritual. It’s not the idea of casting out the demons, but what does this person believe?

Jesus said, for example, “If you continue in My Word, then are you my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” So a person is really set free by the truth. It’s the truth of God that destroys the lie of Satan and then sets the person free. It’s not some ritual.

But the Catholic Church is not involved in that truth at all. They just have a ritual.

Tom: Right. And Evangelicals, for their part—I’m thinking of individuals who go around the country setting up their seminars on how to deliver people from demons, and they’re just as much at fault or in error as the Roman Catholic Church in this.

Dave: Well, I would have to agree with you on that. If a demon is really cast out, that’s biblical. If you’ve got some technique for doing it, or you think you’re casting demons out of Christians—“I got the demon of lust cast out of me last week.” I mean, I talk to Christians like this, “and then I lusted again. That demon must have come back in.” So you can begin to blame the works of the flesh on demons, and that’s not good either.