Now, Contending for the Faith. In this regular feature of our program, Dave and Tom respond to questions from listeners and subscribers. Here’s this week’s question: Have you read Mind Games by André Kole, the Campus Crusade magician? I saw a review of it in Christian News that had your picture, because Kole’s book contradicts what you have written about demonic and Satanic power in Occult Invasion and most of your other books. How do you respond to Kole? Can a magician’s power come from demonic sources, and is Satan’s power real?
Dave: You’re asking me (laughing). Well certainly it is. I’ve, well you’ve sat with me. One of my dear friends believes this and we discussed it with him.
Tom: Yes, this is André Kole, who’s a Campus Crusade—
Dave: Yes, I love André.
Tom: He’s a good guy.
Dave: He’s a good man. He loves the Lord, but this is his view as a magician. But when Paul warns 2 Thessalonians 2 about this man who’s coming as after the power of Satan with lying signs and wonders and all deceivableness of unrighteousness. It hardly seems like he’s warning us about stage magicians, slight of hand and stage magic.
Jesus warns Matthew:24:24 that there will arise false prophets who will show great signs and wonders so convincing that if possible, even the elect would be deceived. I hardly think that he’s talking about something that any stage magician could say, “Now wait a minute here, I’ll explain to you this is how they do it.” When the scripture tells me that in the temptation in the wilderness Satan took Jesus up to the top of a mountain and showed him the kingdoms of this earth in a moment of time and that seems like tremendous power to me. I don’t think a stage magician could take Jesus onto the top of a mountain in the wilderness and zip, there he is and show him the kingdoms of this world in a moment of time. Apparently even showing—if you talk about the kingdoms of this world, the kingdoms to come even. The glory of this, or could suddenly take Jesus up onto the pinnacle of the temple. I mean if I’m believing the Bible, then it was Satan who transported Jesus onto the pinnacle of the temple and tempted him to jump off. Because then the angels would catch him and the people would worship him and so forth.
Tom: You know there’s even a more mundane, if I can use that term, example and that is the demoniac. Here the scripture tells us that chains were not able to contain this man.
Dave: Right, right.
Tom: Now, it doesn’t say that this man was like a Houdini who was able to slip out of these, you know, when he was shackled. But he broke the chains.
Dave: He broke them.
Tom: And that’s got to be a super—not a supernatural—
Tom: —but a power—
Tom: That we’re not able to do.
Dave: I could put it like this just real quickly. Satan is subject to God. He lives in a different dimension. It’s part of this universe, I believe that it is, but its non-physical dimension. And there are laws that govern; you know, in that dimension, just like there are—
Tom: Because it’s created. It’s a created dimension.
Dave: That’s right, right. But when Satan from the non-dimensional world, invades our physical world, he seems to be able to do things that at least by our scientific understanding are not possible and can seem like miracles, but are not. But nevertheless, there is a power, definitely a power to put boils on Job, to take the boils off, and so forth. You read the book of Job.
So yes, I believe that Satan has a definite power, but it is limited. He cannot raise the dead. So Antichrist will not be somebody brought back from the dead. He cannot legitimately, genuinely heal. He can’t restore a missing limb and so forth. But if he can put boils on Job, he can put something on someone and then he could take that off and it would seem to be a healing in order to cause them to follow him.
Tom: The other aspect of this, just briefly is that if André is saying that this all kind of a deceit, it’s like a stage magic, well this is something—I mean Jannes and Jambres. We have examples where God is condemning this sort of thing. We’ve spent time on divination. There are things that are condemned. Well if this is stage magic or of that sort, doesn’t André have a problem here? Isn’t this what he does?
Dave: Well André should be here to defend himself, but you know we give you all kinds of examples in Occult Invasion of things that cannot be duplicated by stage magic.