Was it the Execution, or the Execution Device?

Was It the Execution, or the Execution Device?

Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage all who desire to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him.

Last week, we began talking about the significance of the cross and our concern that we’re seeing in the church today approaches to the cross that are making it, in the apostle Paul’s words, “of none effect.” Now, Dave, we talked about people wearing jewelry, crosses, and so on. And on the one hand, it does seem to remind us of what Christ did—how He died. On the other hand, I would think, asking people—this might be a project for some out there—when you see somebody with a cross, because you’re interested, ask them what that means? What does that symbol mean? At the very least, it would be a conversation starter with regard to seeing whether they understand the gospel or not.

Dave:  I think it would be an interesting survey, Tom, to take, and I can almost predict the results. I mean, you see some NBA players who don’t live very good lives wearing a cross around their . . . or maybe it’s a good luck charm; or NFL players, and some of them are Christians—very, very few, but a lot of people out there on the street, men and women, are wearing a cross. And I think if you took a survey, you would find most of them are not Christians; they do not know what this really means, but they’ve picked up on it, and it’s kind of a “religious thing.” Maybe they like it because it’s en vogue, or whatever. So, from that standpoint, you might say—and, again, Tom, we’re not trying to be critical; we’re trying to be helpful to ourselves and to our listeners. But maybe it would be better if they didn’t wear the cross, because it gives people a false impression that somehow this symbol has some power, and so forth. We’ve talked about that, so we don’t need to go back over that again.

Tom: Yeah, but, Dave, one thing I want to mention is that I like to talk to people. I’m really interested in what they believe, particularly with regard to the important things in life—their salvation, where they’re going to spend eternity, and so on. And I would think—my big deal is explaining things. We certainly live in a generation now, they like to call it “post-modern,” but in my way of thinking, it’s sort of a pseudo-Christian realm. People still have an idea or an understanding of what Christianity is, but they’ve lost—not in every case, but for the most part, they’ve lost what the content of Christianity is.

So, every time I find opportunities to explain something from the Scriptures (not my own ideas, not things that I’ve made up), but explain things—and to explain the cross to somebody who’s wearing one might really . . . again, it could be an opportunity, rather than just getting on their case: “Why are you wearing that? Do you know what it means?”

Dave:  No, we don’t want to do that, but I think that probably at least a high percentage of the people who wear a cross, number one, well, it’s kind of a fashionable type of jewelry; number two, well, it might give you some “points” with God—I mean He might “look more favorably upon you”—it’s sort of a religious aura that you get. And certainly ecumenical—it doesn’t have any real, hard-core meaning. It’s popular today: “I’m spiritual, but not religious.” What they mean by that is, “Well, I’m spiritual, but I don’t go for these dogmas or doctrines. And what does it really matter? I’m wearing a cross. I mean, look, it’s a religious symbol. It’s a Christian symbol. Take it for however you want. But doesn’t that make me kind of a nice person?” I think a large percentage of the people would have that attitude.

Tom:  Dave, I want to shift here to the church and its attempt to make the cross acceptable to the world, not only by using the means of the world but by changing things to sort of give a positive spin on it. Again, to make it very acceptable to people out there. That’s a danger, isn’t it?

Dave: Give us some examples, Tom.

Tom: The church is not beyond, sort of, exploitation of certain things. We’ve talked about crosses as symbols, and liturgies, and all of these things that would attract. We have churches now that are seeker friendly, where you’re going to present a gospel that kind of takes the edge off. Last week you mentioned, when we were talking about the cross, that its Christianity is a “bloody religion.” The blood has to do with death, and death on a cross. This is not . . . this is a hard sell, okay, even though the world is into some very gruesome things, but in terms of its religion and spirituality, certainly that ought to be pushed to the back.

Dave: And that this is the only way. We talked about Christ pleading with His Father in the Garden: “If it’s possible, don’t make me go through this. If man could be saved in any other way, don’t make me go through this.”

Now, we know from that alone, there is no other way. The only way was the penalty had to be paid, and it had to be paid in a way in fulfillment of Scripture that would show both the evil, the wickedness, the sin, the corruption, the horror of the human heart in its hatred against God, and at the same time, would show the love of God. And the penalty had to be paid. So, the cross—this is the message of the cross.

Tom: And it is a . . . you know, the cross is—it’s a horrifying way for a person to die. We talked about Jesus humbling Himself and dying on a cross. Yet, the church, particularly the penchant for pleasing people, entertaining people: we have music—we’ve talked about this before, and I’m not just talking about choruses over and over that are contentless—I’m talking about things that . . . the music, the lyrics, and so on, present the cross in a way that you’d have a hard time, really, holding this up to what the Scriptures actually teach.

Dave: Well, we have probably neglected the cross, as far as our young people are concerned. I think of, say, the dedication of some of the Communists who have been willing to die for a cause; I think of the dedication of Muslims today, willing to secrete a bomb on themselves and die. And, Tom, again, I don’t want to get off on a hobby horse here, but I think in many of our youth ministries, Sunday Schools, and particularly for teenagers—we don’t want to lose our teenagers; we want to “entertain” them; we want to make this as appealing as possible. And so, we sort of gloss over the difficult parts.

But Jesus—and I’ve said it often—again, I’m repeating myself, but when somebody would run up to Christ and say, “Master, we’ll follow you wherever you will lead us,” Jesus didn’t say, “Peter, sign him up quick! John, get him in the choir. James, make a deacon out of him.” That’s sort of the attitude we have if we’re talking about churches today: “I think the guy’s got some money. Maybe we can encourage him, you know? He might become a big supporter of the church!”

But Christ said this: “Foxes have holes, birds of the air have nests; I don’t have anywhere to lay my head. Are you sure you want to follow me? Now, let me tell you something. I’m heading for a hill outside Jerusalem called Calvary. They are going to nail me to a cross. Now, if you are going to be my followers, then pick up your cross right now. Make up your mind. That’s where we’re going. Pick up your cross now and follow me,” and He said, “you can’t be my disciple except you deny self, take up the cross, and follow me.”

Now, these are the words of Jesus. If I’m going to be a Christian—I’m going to understand what it means—I’m going to have to take it from Christ himself.  But that’s—as you said—look, we’re going to chase people away from our radio program talking like this! Jesus didn’t have many followers, you know!

Tom:  But let me get you off the hook a little, not that we’re looking to men, but let me quote you something that A. W. Tozer wrote: “If I see aright, the cross of popular evangelicalism is not the cross of the New Testament. It is rather a new bright ornament upon the bosom of a self-assured and carnal Christianity. The old cross slew men; the new cross entertains them. The old cross condemns; the new cross amuses. The old cross destroyed confidence in the flesh; the new cross encourages it. The flesh, smiling and confident, preaches and sings about the cross. Before that cross it bows and toward that cross it points with carefully staged histrionics, but upon that cross it will not die. And the reproach of the cross, it stubbornly refuses to bare.”

Dave:  Those are tough words, Tom. But I think they’re biblical. And I remember A. W. Tozer—they called him a “prophet for today.” I guess they called him that after he died—I remember him saying at one time that he had preached himself out of nearly every pulpit in North America. They didn’t want to hear what he had to say. But I think he’s only saying what Jesus said.

Now, but what does it mean? He says, “Upon that cross they will not die.” Well, of course, I can’t die on the cross. In fact, Peter said, “Master, I’ll follow you wherever you go.” That was at the last supper, when Jesus said, “You’re going to deny me, Peter. You will curse and swear that you never knew me.” And Peter said, “No! Not I, Lord! I won’t deny you. I will die with you!” Jesus said, “Peter, where I go now, you do not know. And you cannot follow me now, but you will follow me hereafter.”

So, the way we “die with Christ,”—Paul said, “I am crucified with Christ,” which doesn’t mean that he hung on a cross beside Christ. Peter couldn’t do that. Peter hung on a cross later. He died out of his love and loyalty for Christ and his conviction for the gospel, and they crucified Peter, tradition says, upside down, because he didn’t feel he was worthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord.

So, when Tozer says they’re not they’re not willing to die on that cross, no one could die on the cross with Christ. No one could die on a cross beside Christ, except the thief. But what it means is, Paul said, “I am crucified with Christ.” In other words, “I acknowledge that the only reason Jesus was on that cross was because He took my place. That is what I deserve. He died the death that I deserve to die. Now, when I embrace Him, when I believe that, I accept Him as my Savior, I am accepting His death as my death. That means I’m dead! I forfeited the right to live. The life that I now have,” Paul says, “that’s not mine. That’s Christ, the resurrected Christ, living in me!”

See, this is so different from semantics; “If I can just get a new view of things,” or New Age, or Buddhism or Hinduism or Islam. Buddha didn’t rise from the dead. He never said that he would die for us. Neither did Muhammad or Confucius, that they would live their lives in us. Christianity is totally different. This is not a religious philosophy. This is a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. And the only way we have that relationship is through the cross—through what He accomplished on the cross.

So, now, as a Christian, the real secret of the Christian life—and it is so wonderful: it’s not [like] I grit my teeth, and [say] “I’m going to give up this and give up that. I’m gonna live this strait-laced, narrow-minded, sober and sad, self-denying Christian life and miss out on all the fun, but I’m gonna knuckle down and do it because if I don’t, God’s gonna send me to hell.”

No. It’s the wonder and the joy that Christ has come to live in me! He’s alive. He said, “Because I live, you will live also.” He said He would rise from the dead. He did. And we know Him personally. He has changed our lives. He lives His life in us! You quoted in the last program, “ . . . created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before-ordained that we should walk in them.” It’s always in Christ Jesus! Everything that we have is in Christ Jesus, and He has come to live in us!

So now, “Take up the cross, and follow Me” means I have accepted the true meaning of the cross—His death is my death; He took my place. I’ve given up life as I would live it, and now the only life that I have is the life of the resurrected Son of God living in me! And this is the power of the Christian life—the power of the cross in the Christian life. And, Tom, I’ve often said (this is kind of a crude illustration), but you can run 50 naked dancing girls up and down in front of a dead man, and he doesn’t sit up in his coffin. He’s dead. And the secret of the Christian life is not for me to grit my teeth and somehow overcome this temptation or turn over a new leaf and somehow I’m going to live for Christ. No! It’s recognizing that I’m dead and allowing Christ to live His life through me.

Tom:  Dave, this is really important in terms of who Christ is, what He did. The cross—we’re trying to make some distinctions between what it is and what it isn’t, how we should look at it, how should we understand it in terms of it really affecting our lives—how we should live the Christian life. And the problem, it seems to me, with these things that we were referring to: the church making the cross, making salvation, more appealing to people; trying, in effect, to sell it to non-Christians, to unbelievers, and packaging it in certain ways that it becomes more attractive. It’s a crime in this sense, because by doing that, we’re diverting the real content of the cross. We’re diverting—we’re making it more difficult for people to really understand and accept and be in awe and be more loving of Christ for what He’s done—more thankful. It sounds like we’re just trying to pull down things that people have come up with and they’ve created.

Let me give you an example. I’m sure this will really put some people on edge. Recently a very popular approach to presenting Christian ideas and thoughts is Veggie Tales. And it’s cute, and I think at the level of kids, it’s really great. But a lot of adults have gotten into this, and the question that I ask, and I’d like people to ask who are really attracted to this is: How do you explain the cross and Christ crucified—these very things that we’re pointing to and addressing? I hope people understand what I’m trying to say here is that yes, it does have some attractiveness, but if that attractiveness means we’re going to miss the heart, the content, the substance, the depth, of what you’re saying here.

I mean, how do you explain putting self to death through the cross in Veggie Tales terminology and imagery? That’s not the only example. Don’t think I’m just picking on that, because there are a lot of other examples that move in this direction.

Dave: Well, Tom, what are we trying to say? Paul says it in Romans:1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
See All...: “I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.” Now, I must believe the gospel to be saved. What is the gospel? Paul, and the apostles, turned the world upside down that day! The power of the Word of God! He could say, in his first epistle that he wrote to the Thessalonians, chapter 1: “Our gospel came not unto you in word only but in power, demonstration of the Holy Spirit, and you turned to God from idols. You were transformed from pagan idol worshipers into those who love Jesus as the one who died for you, and now you’re waiting . . . you’re serving the true and living God instead of these idols, and you’re waiting for His Son from heaven,” and so forth.

There is a transforming power in the gospel of Jesus Christ and in the Word of God! But what are we doing today, Tom? And again, I keep saying it: we’re not trying to be critical. We’re trying to understand what’s happening in our day, but it seems to me that we’re turning Jesus Christ into maybe a good example: someone who died for a cause, you know; someone who was willing to pay the ultimate price for His ideals and what He stood for, and now, wouldn’t that be a good example for us to follow?

This is some of what is happening today, and we think that, somehow, the old gospel—like Tozer said, the old cross. Well, that slew people, but now, let’s try to entertain them with the cross, because we could attract many more people with this new approach!

So are we not blunting the Word of God? Are we not robbing the cross of its power? Are we not perverting the gospel by our . . . well intentions, improvements, to sort of make it more palatable, make it . . .

 Tom:  Dave, are we not teaching? (I want to add that to the list.)

Dave: Mm-hmm. Not teaching the real truth of the Word of God.

Tom, I write books, you write books; I can remember the day when—well, my father probably had the largest library of Christian books that I’ve ever seen, thousands of them. I never read one, as a teenager growing up. I sort of prided myself—yeah, I would have to say it was a bit of pride: “I don’t read what men write about the Bible; I read the Bible.”

But there’s some truth in that. And I have to be careful when I’m writing books. What am I trying to do? Improve upon the Word of God? Or, what is this program about? We are trying to bring people back to focus on the Word of God—not to take our words but to recognize God’s Word is the truth. This is the lamp to my feet; this is the light to my path. This is what Jesus said: “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”  Jeremiah said, “Thy words were found, and I did eat them. They were unto me the joy and rejoicing of my heart.”

So, what we’re trying to do, in all the words we say or books that we write, or whatever we do, is let’s get back to the Bible. This is God’s Word. This is the power of God. We are born again of the Word of God, Peter says. And not by our words, but by the Word of God that lives and abides forever!

And now, we’re talking about the cross, and we’re trying to point out that in our well-intentioned desire to attract more people to Christ, maybe we have blunted the message, maybe we have covered up the horror of what really happened on the cross, and we’ve tried to make it more desirable, more palatable, more interesting to the teenagers, or whatever. I guess we’ve said that over and over, Tom, but I think it’s something very important.

Tom: Dave, Let me say it another way, and I know you’d agree with this. This is a radio program, and we love to have listeners, but we’d also like to lose listeners—not for the reasons that we’re saying things that are objectionable to them but for the very fact that they’d say, “Hey, these guys have encouraged me to read the Word! Instead of listening to them, I’m gonna spend my time reading God’s Word.” Now, that’s what we’re looking for. That would be great!

Dave: Tom, on the one hand, I can agree with you. On the other hand, I hope they’ll do both. Because we want to continue to teach God’s Word, and we also need to learn from others as well.