What Does the Future Hold for Israel?

Tom: Thanks, Gary. You’re listening to Search the Scriptures Daily, a program in which we encourage everyone who desires to know God’s truth to look to God’s Word for all that is essential for salvation and living one’s life in a way that is pleasing to Him. In this first segment of our program, Dave and I will be discussing his latest book Judgment Day! Islam, Israel, and the Nations, and right now we are in the last chapter, chapter 15. 

And, Dave, you begin chapter 15 by stating that Israel will not go down to destruction without using its ultimate weapons, meaning nuclear armed missiles. And you say this is related to the battle of Armageddon, which the Bible prophesies will take place. Can tell us how this is developing and at what point Armageddon will take place? But again, prior to that, what about Israel, you know?

Dave: Yeah, Tom, in the book we document anti-Semitism to where the readers ought to be weeping. We document the betrayal of the United States a number of times against Israel. I don’t think that the United States has been the friend of Israel, to whatever extent it has been. And you know that the State Department is just anti-Israel.

Tom: Mm-hmm. Although we heard over the weekend from Bill Koenig, who is there in Washington. He said that Congress, thank God, is very pro-Israel.

Dave: Yeah, Congress is something else. But anyway, when you say “pro-Israel,” that needs to be qualified also. There are some real Christians in Congress who definitely believe what the Bible says about Israel. 

On the other hand, Israel is a buffer for us. It’s the only ally we have in the Middle East. Now, we arm them all, but we can count on Israel. Why can we count on Israel? They have to defend themselves, and in defending themselves they are defending the interests of the United States. I don’t think it goes beyond that. Certainly we’ve had presidents who claim to be Christians, yet they cannot follow the Bible. They are politicians, and their excuse is, “Well, we weren’t just voted in by evangelical Christians.” 

And on the other hand, we also, as we pointed out, have—in not only the State Department, but as close advisers to the president—those who believe in replacement theology. So they’re not defending Israel from the Biblical standpoint; in fact, they are defying God. The very fact that the United States is right in the forefront of telling Israel, “Get out of Gaza,” which they did. Now you’ve got to deal with West Bank, and United States has been right there along with the United Nations in voting the partition, which gave Israel about 13 percent of what really belonged to them. 

So ultimately—I mean, you can tell where it’s going ultimately. And I don’t know why God gave the descendants of Ishmael all of that oil, but He did. Because, as we read in Genesis 17, Abraham pleaded with God: “Well, okay, You’re going to give me the son You promised. His name will be Isaac, and he will inherit the promises; he will inherit the promised land. But surely You could reserve a blessing for Ishmael.” 

And God says,  “Yes, I’ll make him a great nation, and I will bless him.” And so the blessings that came upon Ishmael… 

Tom, we don’t know how God works. You know the song: “God moves in mysterious ways, wonders to perform,” and so forth. He’s not violating anyone’s free will, but certainly the Muslims have played a tremendous part in disciplining the Jews for their waywardness. In fact, it was laid out—we point this out on p. 266 of Judgment Day—it was laid out very clearly by Moses ben Maimon. He’s known as Maimonides, the famous Jewish physician, philosopher, whose family had fled from Islamic persecution in Spain to, of all places, Fez. We also point out the massacre there of 6,000 Jews. 

But anyway, in 1172, he wrote this in his epistle to Yemen: “It is one of the fundamental articles of the faith of Israel that the future redeemer of our people will gather our nation, assemble our exiles, redeem us from our degradation….” Then he goes on and he says, “On account of the vast number of our sins, God has hurled us in the midst of this people, the Arabs, who have persecuted us severely, as Scripture has forewarned us. Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they.” And of course, we give all kinds of quotations of Arab leaders, but it’s because of Islam.

Tom: When did this take place, Dave?

Dave: This was 1172 AD he wrote that, and of course they had been under persecution by the Muslims for 500 years at that point. So God uses all of these things, and the wealth of the descendants of Ishmael, the Arabs who are all Muslims now… It’s really not Arab against Jew, it’s Islam. Arabs and Jews got along fairly well, you know, as well as anyone gets along, until Muhammad came along. And Muhammad—you remember his dying words: “May Allah curse the Christians and the Jews.” And Muhammad said, “We must kill every Jew on the face of this earth.” Okay? So you follow that, it’s not going to be very pleasant. And Maimonides is pointing out, I mean, what they have done, and we document quite a bit of that in the book. The treatment of Jewish people at the hands of the Muslims in Arab countries for 1,300 or more years—just beyond calculation. I mean, you couldn’t even calculate all of the massacres and so forth.

Tom: Dave, even when there weren’t massacres, just on a social level there was the dhimmi. I mean, the Jews couldn’t even walk on the same side of the street as Muslims.

Dave: Well, and they had to clean the latrines, and so forth—it was horrible. They could not ride a horse; they could ride a donkey, but when a Muslim approached they had to get off and walk, and so forth. 

Now, maybe we had better explain what a dhimmi is. The entire world is divided into two parts by Islam, and you have Dar al-Islam—that’s the house of Islam, the house of peace or whatever, although they fight one another viciously…

Tom: There aren’t Sunnis and Shi’ites in that house of peace, then…

Dave: And it’s even worse than that even within those groups. Oh, we document that again in the book, how they have slaughtered one another. They may have killed more of their own than they have of others down through the ages. 

But then the other division is Dar al-harb, the house of war. There is perpetual jihad by Dar al-Islam against Dar al-harb; there can never be peace, okay? 

But anyway, outside of either of those, there is another category—well, they’re in Dar al-harb—but Christians and Jews, which the Qur’an calls “people of the Book.” And so the people of the Book have a special privilege: for the pagans, you either confess there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet, or we take your head off. But the Christians and Jews, being people of the Book, they have another option: they can elect to be under the heel of Islam in Muslim countries, totally controlled, and they’re about fifth-class citizens. Oh, yes, their rights are protected, and so forth and so on, and you go back and read the fine print, but this is what a dhimmi is. And they are to pay exorbitant taxes with humiliation, coming and bowing and scraping, you know, as they bring their payment. They were so brutalized and so downtrodden in Egypt, for example, or other Muslim countries, that when Israel became an independent nation, 1948, over 800,000 fled. And of course, these are refugees that you never hear about. It’s all about the so-called Palestinian refugees. But…

Tom: Dave, how do you reconcile letting them live under the poll tax, or a dhimmi tax, or that sort of unspeakable social environment with the Qur’an saying to kill all the Jews?

Dave: Well, it doesn’t actually say, “Kill all Jews.” That was Muhammad’s declaration…

Tom: In the Hadith.

Dave: Right, it’s in the Hadith, but all pagans are to be killed. So technically, Christians and Jews are not pagans, they’re people of the Book. But you’re quoting from the Hadith where Muhammad said, “The last day will not come until the Muslims confront the Jews and the Muslims destroy them. And that day Allah will give a voice to the rocks and the trees, and they will cry out, ‘O Muslim, O Abdullah, O servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him.’” So that’s in the Hadith. In fact, it’s in several Hadith and in other places, as well, and we give the references for that in the book. 

So Maimonides is speaking of this, the degradation. You couldn’t ride a horse. You could maybe ride a mule under some circumstances, but if a Muslim approached, you have to get off. And you can be slapped and knocked around by the Muslims. 

For example, then, at that time, he was attorney general, Ramsey Clark. He declared in a July 10, 1974 letter to UN Secretary General Kurt Waldheim: “Jewish people living in Syria today are subjected to the most pervasive and inhuman persecution. Young women and children are harassed in the streets, old people are knocked down, homes are stoned. They are forbidden to leave in peace and cannot remain in dignity. Many have been arrested, detained, tortured, and killed.” So that was 1974, so this has been going on forever.

Tom: Now, this is just an aside, Dave—this is the Ramsey Clark who is defending Saddam Hussein in Iraq right now?

Dave: Unless Saddam just fired him; I don’t know how that stands. But anyway, yes, he offered to sign up to defend Hussein. It’s a little bit difficult. 

So, Tom, that’s a long answer, but going back to what’s going on today and how is the buildup to Armageddon, it relates to anti-Semitism; it relates to the oil that the Muslims have. And you know there is great pressure: “Why do we keep defending Israel, this tiny little nation? Let them be stomped on. I mean, let them become part of the Palestinian state, let the Palestinians be in charge, and let the Israelis be under their benevolent protection, and so forth. That would end the terrorism. I mean, look, we are offending the Arabs who have all this oil. If we would just stop supporting Israel, then things would smooth out.” And you can see it heading in that direction. 

Now, after the church is gone and there are no real Christians in the UN (there may be a few, very few), or in NATO—there are very, very few there—or in the American Administration, you know, and so forth… I don’t think it takes any great imagination to see that this thing will finally play out in what the world will consider to be what Hitler called “the final solution to the Jewish problem.”

Tom: Dave, you say this war, referring to Armageddon, is clearly foretold in Scripture, and will—in all likelihood—will involve the first nuclear exchange, unless the Lord intervenes to prevent it. So, you know, many people say, “Oh, Armageddon!” They’ve heard that term. You know, it’s kind of been removed from the Scriptures now; it’s just a term meaning some kind of big blowup here and there. But it’s in the Scripture, it’s going to take place, and we’re seeing the development, or at least the movement toward that, in the papers every day.

Dave: Well, Tom, Armageddon will involve an attack by all the nations of the world against Israel. We’ve given the scriptures…for example, Zechariah:14:1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
See All..., God says, “I’m going to bring all nations against Jerusalem.” 

We quoted Joel:3:2I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
See All..., God says, “I’m going to bring all nations into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and I’m going to punish them there for what they have done to my people Israel.” So the nations of the world think they’re coming to punish Israel and to wipe out Israel, and in fact God is going to punish them, and He is drawing them there. Again, this is not easy for us to comprehend. God isn’t forcing them to come, but He is allowing their evil to move them in that direction. This is what they want, and the Scripture says, “Well, that’s what you want, well, God will help you with it.” And this is where we are going. 

Now, Israel has had to…wow! they have had to develop atomic weapons. They had to go in in 1981, and they took out Saddam Hussein’s atomic capabilities. And if we have any listeners out there who can even remember that far back, 25 years ago, there was such an outcry, you couldn’t imagine! And was it Jean Kilpatrick, was she the…?

Tom: At the UN.

Dave: Right,and our representative at the United Nations—this is the United States now—we castigated Israel probably more than anybody. We were the leader, and just everyone was jumping on Israel, and, “Oh, how could you do this? You’re threatening the peace in the Middle East.” Well, Israel knew what Saddam’s atomic weapons were being developed for: they’re going to be aimed at them. I mean, there’s no doubt about that. And of course, finally what happened: we sent our troops in. I mean, we really bombed the place, sent our troops in looking for weapons of mass destruction. Well, Israel found them and took them out with a bomb, and of course they were thinking he was redeveloping these. Now, we know that Iran, in spite of all the talk, Iran is developing nuclear weapons, missiles that can carry nuclear bombs.

Tom: Right, well, they have those already, as we understand.

Dave: Well, they have paraded them, and now, of course, with pressure from the international atomic energy commission, they’re saying, “Oh, no, we don’t have anything like that, and we wouldn’t even aim for that. We’re only aiming for peaceful usage of atomic power.” But…

Tom: Well, that’s out of one side of their mouth.

Dave: Right. Out of the other side of their mouth, I quote one of their generals in the book, and he’s saying, “We’ve already got them. We can send them to America, we can sent them to Europe, and we’re, of course, going to send them to Israel.” Well, he’s boasting a little bit. He doesn’t have them quite, but he’s telling you their intention. 

And of course, Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran, several times he has said, “Israel must be wiped off the map.” Well, that’s nothing new. All the Arab nations, Arab leaders have said that. 

Okay, so that brings us to the point where Israel is going to have to act, and I don’t know when, but—of course I don’t know when, but I believe it’s going to be very soon, because from some of the maneuvers that are going on over there with their fighters and so forth, low level maneuvers, etc.—why, it seems like they are preparing. And they will have to put troops on the ground. They can’t reach these deeply embedded bunkers, although they have huge bombs which the United States has given them (bunker busters), but I mean that penetrate and go way down before they go off. 

But anyway, I shouldn’t be a prognosticator, Tom, but I think it is highly likely that Israel will have to go in. You know that Iran is lying, you know their hatred against Israel, you know their sponsorship of terrorism.

Tom: Well, we know because they’re telling us! It’s not like we’re reading between the lines here.

Dave: Right, and you know that they will persist in trying to develop these atomic capabilities, and you also know that Israel will know when that happens, okay? Israel cannot wait for the United Nations to vote on this.

Tom: Dave, you mentioned other things here that are just frightening. You say there are 13,000 missiles along the Israeli border—you know, this is in Southern Lebanon—and the Hezbollah, the party of Allah, has planted them. And then in Gaza, and there are Russian Katyusha rockets all over the place in the hands of Hamas and other terrorist groups.

Dave: Tom, look, Israel’s Arrow 2, which is the most advanced defense system in the world, it can take these things out—I don’t remember, but I think about 60 miles up, far higher than the Patriot can go. It’s far better, and again, we give a little bit of information about that in the book. Now, that is useless against these low level missiles that are being launched next door. What are you going to do with them? Now, Israel has lasers; they can knock an artillery shell down as it is coming right at you. I don’t know what Israel is going to have to do to defend itself from all of this stuff. 

Now fortunately, the so-called missiles that are coming from Gaza, they’re mostly kind of homemade, and they don’t do much damage; and you never know where they are going to land—hopefully in an open field some place, which is often the case. 

But this is a long answer to a question that hardly gets us into this chapter, Tom. It is very clear that we are heading for Armageddon. Now, will it be a nuclear exchange? Well, I don’t know. The Bible talks about Damascus being wiped out, not inhabited for some time. Jesus warned in Matthew:24:22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
See All..., He said: “Except those days be shortened, no flesh would survive.” Now that was an amazing prophecy! You couldn’t wipe out all flesh with bows and arrows and swords and spears, the only weapons that there were in His day. This was a prophecy of weapons of incredible destruction, which in fact could leave this earth just a charred bit of wreckage with not even a microbe left alive, and we have the weapons that can do that, you know? So…

Tom: But God’s not going to let that happen.

Dave: He’s not going to let that happen. He’s going to shorten those days, Jesus said, for the elect’s sake, but the elect are Israel. It doesn’t mean that there isn’t some dreadful destruction going to fall on the rest of the world. And Israel can launch multi-warhead missiles from submarines as well. They have been very diligent in preparing for their own defense, because, as far as they’re concerned, unfortunately, they are not trusting in the Lord. If they would read Psalm 124… 

And, Tom, I have talked to so many of them who were in the wars who said, “I saw miracles. I couldn’t explain it any other way. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He is defending His ancient people, and I came out of there a believer in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” But most of them don’t. And if you talk to most of the military people, they are boasting in their capabilities. They know they’re the best. They better read Psalm 124, and I think it would ring true to their conscience. I mean, look, they certainly weren’t the best in 1948; they certainly weren’t the best in the next war; it’s taken them time. But Psalm 124, as you know, says, “Had it not been the Lord who was on our side when men rose up against us, they had swallowed us up quick. Had it not been the Lord who was on our side when men rose up against us, we wouldn’t have survived.” It was the Lord. Israel is under judgment of God for their sins at the same time He’s protecting them. And He is going to see this thing through, and I guess we’ll have to come back to talk about that.