The discussion centered around Martin’s statement that remote viewing was “nitroglycerin to the soul.” Surprisingly, Malachi Martin did not consider remote viewing to be part of the occult, nor was he opposed to it so long as it was done “scientifically.” Martin explained:
“If it’s not done with the proper motivation and…scientifically, with the proper methods and checks and balances it can disrupt the soul…. We exorcists found that those who did remote viewing or channeling without any of those safeguards that you [Major Dames] just described, that they underwent very severe disturbances and disruptions of their normal persona and also had manifestations that could only be explained in the light of Luciferian intervention in human things.”
Martin presented his belief that there are three levels of reality: the supernatural order (God and all that belongs to Him); the natural order (the entire physical universe); and the in-between “middle plateau.” Those who enter that plateau can exercise these paranormal “powers of the soul that can apparently be sharpened and developed,” but there is also a danger, according to Martin: When someone tries to enter the middle plateau to exercise and develop these powers without “the proper intention or proper controls and checks and balances,” he will need the attention of an exorcist. Said Fr. Martin:
“We’ve found some army officers who came for help as private citizens because they had delved into the middle plateau and came away very disturbed.
“Then there are the normal people who use the Ouija board or remote channeling or remote viewing and they entered an area where they were subject to terrible onslaughts from the angel of light [Satan].
“The only succor we could give them was through these [Roman Catholic] ceremonies, not therapies but exorcism, a confrontation [with the demonic]….”
Dames response that he was “familiar operationally with the concept of the middle plateau.” In his view, channeling was extremely dangerous. He went on to explain:
“The channeler gives up his own identity and turns his identity over to something unknown that has convinced them that it is benign in most cases.
[Martin interjects, “That is very, very important. That’s where the nitroglycerin aspect comes in.”]
“That is the essence of channeling, but technical remote viewing is essentially a mind tool where we are fully conscious and fully awake. In the early days, natural physics employed by the military got involved in an altered state and there were some dangers….
“When we would ‘send’—I use that term loosely—an officer to a remote location, there were instances where in navigating that middle plateau these people…ran into these entities on the way and this caused a tremendous amount of grief. We actually had two individuals have heart attacks….
“In the case of one of my former students and an army officer…these people started to lean toward association with the very entities that they discovered in the middle plateau….
“Once something has its hook in you, it’s got you and that is why one begins to see behavioral change…. We’ve studied it…the hook is in ego…the psyche is being pulled along.
[Martin interjects, “That’s a very good description of the process.”]
[Major Dames continues.] “We’ve had to study it long and hard to discern when we’re on dangerous turf…the more we give up our own decision-making ability, because that’s all we really have is our mind, and our mind is [Martin: “Yes, yes!”] where the basis of whether our soul survives.
[Martin: “Yes, if we forsake that we’ve forsaken the very essence of us.”]
“I agree. When these individuals start to give up their decision-making ability and turn their minds over to something else or their minds become completely imbued with ego we lose them.
[Martin: “Well, that’s the beginning of what is called from my side ‘possession.’”]
“I’m not familiar that much with possession. I’ve only seen it once or twice in my career…the majority of people who come to me to learn technical remote viewing are…balanced…interested and enthusiastic and we can spot individuals who are [a risk]. We have to because we’ve had disasters….
“When the disasters occurred in the past, whether on the military team or in the case of one or two civilians, former students, they were real disasters….”