T. A. McMahon & Emily Rand (Part 2)

Program Description: Tom continues his discussion with Emily Rand of Collegiate Christian Fellowship as they explore some of the real issues that Christians in college must learn to handle and where they can turn for help.      

Transcript:

Gary: Welcome to Search the Scriptures 24/7, a radio ministry of The Berean Call with T.A. McMahon. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for tuning in. In today’s program, Tom continues his conversation with Emily Rand from Collegiate Christian Fellowship.  Now, along with his guest, here’s TBC Executive Director, Tom McMahon.

Tom: Today we’re going to be picking up where we left off in an interview with a young lady who’s involved in Christian ministry at the college level. Her name is Emily Rand, and she’s a part of the leadership of CCF, which is the Collegiate Christian Fellowship, which is a ministry of First Baptist of Eugene, and it’s directed at the students of University of Oregon, but even more, young people that attend the church at the college level or others that have been won to Christ through their evangelizing, so it’s an excellent organization.

So, Emmy, welcome back to Search the Scriptures 24/7!

Emily: Hi! Thanks for having me back!

Tom: Okay, Em, you are one of my five children, which we established last week. We have made claims that you’re my favorite child, okay? But then you married this young man (chuckling), who I think is absolutely terrific…

Emily: …[and] who is now your favorite child? (laughing)

Tom: Exactly! Well, not exactly, because I don’t play any favorites, right? But we like to kid about it.

So, last week we were talking about, certainly, CCF and your involvement in ministry. And the last thing we went over was what you see as the biggest hurdles to the faith in college. I think we covered that. What about preparing them for after college regarding their faith? Do you see that as part of what you do in ministry?

Emily: You know, that’s something that is…it’s been a challenge for us, and it’s been something that the Lord has been pressing on our hearts to do a better job of, for sure. When it comes to any transition in life, it always promotes doubts and questions and hardships, and I think that the transition out of college is actually – especially in today’s economy – one of the hardest transitions in life, and one thing that I’ve noticed in a lot of my friends is when you go to school from kindergarten through college, that’s really all you know. And that’s what you expect to do next, is… when I graduate from Middle School, I go to High School. When I graduate from High School, for most people, I go to college. And now, when you graduate from college, there’s this…kind of this void of life, and kind of this scary time of not knowing what’s next, not knowing if you’re going to get a job, not knowing where you should live, not having a group established within the church that is for you.

And that’s one thing that – I mentioned this last week, but one of the things that we’ve been noticing is there’s such a need to connect, especially at the college age level, but at any level, connect generations throughout the church. Because for friends of mine that I’ve seen graduate from college that have been really involved within the church here or their church back home or whatever it might be, involved outside of college-aged groups or their set age group, they have such an easier time transitioning because they know people that aren’t their own age. And when all their friends – if they do stay in town – when all their other friends their age leave, they have connections beyond that. And so that’s one of the things that we’ve really been trying to push and challenge students with this year is to get involved with people beyond your years. Get involved with people that are wiser and have lived longer than you that can impart wisdom, but - not only for that wisdom but for the sake of transition, because then they have more knowledge of how to relate to people that are different ages. And it becomes a more comfortable transition when everything else is going crazy in their lives, when they’re not sure what they’re going to do with their life for a career or for the future, whether it’s going back to school or not, they at least have that community and that sense of support from other believers that can help push them. And if they move away, they then know how to easier engage with people that aren’t their own age, and they don’t have to have a set college group or a set high school group or a set age group that caters to them. They know how to go and meet people and to engage other people and to go into a new environment and make relationships. Because it’s handed to you kind of on a silver platter all your life, when it goes through the church Sunday school system or, even outside of that, in the world you have people your own age doing the same thing all the time, and when you get into a place where not everyone’s not doing the same thing anymore, it’s hard to know how to connect. And those connections that will help you to continue in your faith, and walk in your faith, and be solid in your faith.

And I think that that is a really valid thing that – I know our college ministry is trying to figure out how to do better, and I hope that other college-aged pastors are working toward integrating in their churches and building up college students to know that even when things aren’t easy, God is still the same, and…

Tom: Right.

Emmy: …even when times are uncertain – I think that’s the biggest time period when there’s a lot of unknowns in your life for the first time ever. So really developing that trust in the Lord and developing that knowledge that God is good, and God is the same all the time, whether or not our circumstances around us change, and to be able to cling to that and lean on that and then also to have that support of other believers around you can really make a huge difference to make that transition easy vs. horrible.

Tom: Emmy, you underscored it last week, talking – I mean, you used the term “community,” but I prefer the term “fellowship.” That’s why that is so important, and you just said it isn’t just a matter of fellowship with their peer group but their older brothers and sisters in Christ. You know, especially those who have had years of wisdom, who have made the mistakes, who recognize how the Lord has delivered them from issues and so on and can be just a great encouragement.

Now, this is a side note, but thinking about your interaction with the young ladies that you’ve had an opportunity to minister to for nearly a decade, and others of late, and so on - Em, you end up going to a wedding every week! What’s the deal with that?

Emily: Well, that’s one of the joys of being in college ministry. It might be expensive on your wallet but it’s a fun celebration every weekend, and…

Tom: But it’s also an important part of …you kind of left that out, in terms of decisions. Yes, it’s after college. I’ve got to figure out what to do, but, you know, it isn’t just for young ladies - young men as well – marriage, you know, a spouse for life.

You know, my mom used to say that I made a career of going to college, okay? Now, the greatest thing that every happened to me in college was meeting your mom, “Peg o’ my heart”! So, it’s another part of somebody’s life that they need to be ministered to, that they need to be brought to the Scriptures, to have an understanding of how they’re to go about it, and when they do things God’s way, they receive a peace that passes understanding. They’re not anxious for these things to the degree that they’ve grown in their relationship with Christ and to the degree that they’ve tried to live out the Scriptures.

Emily: Yeah, and I think that is another aspect of what call “community” and you call “fellowship” is for college-aged people, or even beyond, but people that are in that stage of life where they are seeking to find someone to spend the rest of their life with, seeking to find someone to get married to – through fellowship and through community you can learn so much about what things the Lord has gifted you in to be able to serve someone else, and what things you see that are attractive in other people, just based on being around groups of people and interacting with groups of people, and also you can see the things that you definitely don’t want in a spouse and you don’t want to live with for the rest of your life! And that’s a crucial part of college-aged life, for sure, and with that comes a lot of other temptations and a lot of other lies, and I think you asked me the question last week of “What are some of the big challenges facing college-aged people?” And one thing I think today more than ever is the challenge of being pure until marriage – it is the challenge of…and granted, that also is a struggle that’s always been there, but I think our media and our social society has pushed the bounds so much that it blurs the lines of what is okay and what isn’t okay.

And, I mean, for guys, I can’t even imagine the struggle to stay away from pornography and stay away from these sexual temptations…

Tom: Yeah, t he moral issues, right.

Emily: Yeah! That are so blatantly out there. I was just on the computer the other day looking up lyrics to a song, and a webpage popped up with naked women on it! And it’s just so unavoidable that you really have to be conscious and be aware of where you’re letting your mind go, what you’re letting become your truth and your guide, and with that, fellowship, that accountability, is so important – both for guys and girls – I thinks that’s an issue that runs the gamut of our society, and for girls it might be lusting after the fairy tale life that is so pushed on us, and being willing to settle for a guy that isn’t a Christian, or a guy that isn’t going to respect you fully because you want so badly to have that fairy tale ending.

And for guys the other way around, or maybe the same way, you know, of just wanting…seeing that pushed on you so much that you just go to things that are clearly not in God’s timing, and clearly not the way that He’s set up for us, and that’s a real danger, and that’s a real…that is a real struggle in the college years – and beyond. And probably before, too.

Tom: Before, as well, Em. You know, my growing up, as you know, I had a Catholic background, but there was a sense – I’m talking about the late ‘50s – there was something I would call “Romantic Christianity.” It wasn’t biblical Christianity, but there was a sense of morality, and much of that had influenced society. And so if there were deviations from that, they were more or less subtle. You can’t say that today!

Emily: Mm-hmm.

Tom: That’s the amazing thing, and I think young people who get saved and begin to read the Bible, particularly the New Testament, they see – Wait a minute! This is so foreign to the way the world thinks, to the way I used to think. It’s like, “Where did this stuff ever come from?” And that’s been the incredible dichotomy between what the Word of God says, which is truth, and where the world is, and how somebody handles that. It keeps going back to all the things that you’ve been articulating, and so on. We need those like-minded people to come alongside us to say, “No, you’re not nuts, okay?” (Laughing) This is truth! Everything else is contrary to truth – obviously not everything else, but I would say for the most part – and, Em, just as you said, it’s blatant! It’s not like it’s subtle any more, and for somebody, again, going back to the issue of if a person is a Lone Ranger in this, doesn’t have the fellowship, they’re going to think that they’re crazy, because the world isn’t agreeing with what they say.

You know, we have conferences over here, The Berean Call conferences, and I used to be involved with – well, “used to be” because it’s…we haven’t promoted it any more, although it’s important, and that is Reaching Catholics for Christ. We would have conferences around the country, and people would come to these conferences who were former Catholics and dealing with the issues with their families, being shunned, and all of that stuff, as well as The Berean Call dealing with issues of apostasy and the things that are going wrong in the church, and when they try to articulate this, either as former Catholics among their family members or now concerned about where the church is and what’s going on, when they come to our conferences, you know, it’s not just a matter of they’re “hanging out with the choir,” but they get encouraged. They get supported that, yes, indeed, what you’re doing, what you’re saying, is true to the Word of God, so hang in there! Keep on keeping on! We need that.

Emily: Yeah. Yeah, and it’s so interesting – that’s one thing that I’ve been reflecting on a lot lately, just exactly as you said – that God’s ways take the logic of man and flips them on their head. God uses the weak to lead the strong.

Tom: Right.

Emily: The poor will become rich…

Tom: Spiritually…

Emily: And if you wait to have sex until you’re married, that’s a great thing, and all those things just don’t make sense to us in our culture today, in our society today, and yet, God is absolutely true, and His ways are the best. Like, His ways are higher than our ways, His thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and He knows the spectrum of it all, and so the more that we can learn to trust Him and His truth, the easier…not the easier life is going to be, but the more fruitful and the more blessed…

Tom: Absolutely…

Emily: …life is going to be. I…just in having conversations with girls about struggles where they logically think things through, and it makes their decisions make sense logically, but they’re counter to Scripture, and so then it comes down to “Okay, you say you trust the gospel; you say you trust that Jesus died for you, and that you have a relationship with Him, with God, that’s now made right through Jesus and His sacrifice, but how can you believe that and not believe everything else in the Bible?” And there’s such a tendency for us to just pick what we like out of Scripture, and pick what we like out of…not only maybe not only Christianity but other religions and other mindsets and other thoughts, and do what feels right to our flesh, but in the long run, that’s the thing that is going to cause us the biggest problems.

Tom: Well, you know, Em, along with what you’re saying, Jesus said, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and you don’t do the things that I say?” Now, there’s nothing that we can do for our salvation.

Emily: For sure.

Tom: He paid the full price. He paid the full penalty for our sins, past, present, and future. But the scripture talks about us being a “peculiar people” saved unto good works. There’s lots of stuff for us to do out there, and we can’t do them if we don’t know them, and we won’t know them unless we’re into the Word of God in a consistent way. And, you know, it’s the best habit we can possibly form as believers.

Now, you’ve had the opportunity through this interview to speak to pastors and youth pastors – oh, and by the way, as I mentioned earlier, Emily Ann McMahon Rand is my daughter. I’m speaking to my daughter here. But, and I want to say, “better than that,” I’m speaking to my sister in Christ. So, you know, one of the things that I’ve loved about all you five kids is you guys minister to me. You speak to me, you know, another generation, I’ve gotten to hear things from your generation, but it’s a two-way street. Now, having said all that, what counsel – because I look to you for counsel – in many things, right? Am I making this up for our audience? (Laughing)

Emily: No, this is true.

Tom: Okay, so therefore what counsel would you have to pastors, youth pastors, to older women in fellowship who minister to young ladies – what counsel would you give them regarding your generation – your peers?

Emily: I would say “Keep going after them. Keep pursuing those relationships.” I know that, yes, I have you as my dad and an amazing family that has ministered to me, but outside of that, I think that some of the especially influential times of your life, whether it be high school or college, there are people that can speak truth into your life that you may listen to better than your parents, or better than your family members, and those opportunities are wide open because people want to feel loved, people want to feel cared for and want to have someone in their life that they know is going to support them regardless.

And for somebody who’s struggling in their faith, or someone who’s walking the good fight, there’s going to be times and moments where they’re going to make mistakes. That’s just the truth. We all mess up. We all make mistakes, and in those times to have someone in their life that they can go to and not feel ashamed in sharing their mistakes, and someone who maybe has made the same mistakes before, and so being willing…I think that’s another part of mentorship or being a pastor or a minister or a shepherd to people is being real with them, being open and honest about the struggles and the trials that you’ve gone through, and being open and honest about the mistakes you’ve made and then being able to see how the Lord takes those things that maybe are hard for us to talk about or are hurtful for us to talk about and redeems them. Because He used them to help us either encourage people to stay away from that path, stay away from making those same mistakes, or to love them through…love them better through those same struggles and those same trials, and really those relationships are just so valuable and so important. And if you don’t have those relationships and you want those, and the easiest way to make friends with college students is to give them food and to take them out to coffee or take them out to lunch.

Tom: I can remember those days, Em.

Emily: (Laughing) Free food! No one is going to deny that! And so, just being…not necessarily thinking you have to have all the answers or knowing all the truths, but being a prayer warrior for somebody is huge, and I would say that for parents especially, is as you let your children go, let them go, trust them to make those decisions, but pray for them

Tom: You know, the truth of the Scriptures – I’m thinking of Romans:8:28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
See All...: “All things work together for good for those who love God and are the called according to his purpose.”

Emily: Yes, my favorite verse.

Tom: That means when I’ve stumbled, when I’ve tripped up, and so on, I can repent, and then the Lord can use that, just as you’ve articulated – the Lord can use that to minister to someone else, so it’s not like that was a good thing, but the Lord still … you used the word “redeemed,” the Lord uses it to His glory and our benefit, so you know, it’s a win-win situation with the Lord all the time.

Now, I’ve got something on a personal note…

Emily: Oh… (laughing)

Tom: Yeah, here we go. You know, one of the things, as your dad and certainly I can speak for Peg, your mom, we’ve always been anxious and concerned about you kids, and so on. And particularly when you were getting ready to go to college. And I want to start with your sister, okay, Heather, because she got a running scholarship to a conservative university in the Midwest, and then after her first year, she transferred to the University of Oregon. She became a Duck. Now that really concerned us, knowing the reputation of the University of Oregon. Some people call it “The poor man’s Berkeley,” okay, in terms of its liberality, in terms of what’s going on there. I think they may still have hippies living in trees over there – which makes it colorful, certainly! But my point here is that we were really concerned as she went to this school that had a reputation that was a little difficult to handle.

But, Em, she became an evangelist at this school! And you are over there in ministry at this school. Now, I say all of that to encourage people  - because I know some people who say, “Oh no, I have to pick a Christian college,” or “I have to pick this university not just because it’s conservative, but because it’s Christian….” And I’ve seen shipwrecks, or train wrecks, with regard to the young people’s faith and that.

So, what’s the point I’m making here? I believe Heather was led of the Lord, I believe you were led of the Lord, and you worked this out in an environment in which most people would say, “Oh, they don’t have a chance.”

I want you to respond to that. What did you do? What helped you? What was the key to get through this environment, and not just get through it but for both of you to be fruitful and productive in this environment? What was the key?

Emily: Well, you know, I think that there definitely are, again, different personalities and different people. Different people have different strengths and different weaknesses, and different needs, but I remember, like you said, when I decided to go to U of O that there were families that told me, “I cannot believe that you’re going there!” and were so concerned that I was going to lose my faith; like that is just the darkest place ever!

And remember coming here and feeling just completely the opposite way! And I think that for me, this was the best decision I could have made, to come to a secular college where my faith was really challenged, and it wasn’t challenged to the extreme of people shouting at me in the streets or professors talking down to me. Most people are pretty respectful about what you believe and open to listening and open to talking about it, but definitely you get ideas presented to you, and you get questions asked of you and asked of your faith, and for me, stepping out of an amazing Christian home and stepping out of having T.A. McMahon as your father, to where you could just go and get all the answers, it was…

Tom: Yeah, that never happened! (Laughing)

Emily: (Laughing) Okay, okay. Well…anyway, the idea of that… just being able to really say, “Okay, why do I believe the things that I believe?” I’m not longer surrounded by…fully surrounded by Christians. I’m here and I have to figure out why I believe what I believe. Because the church says so? Because my parents say so? Because my friends say so? That is no longer good enough for me. I need to know what the Bible says and find out if the Bible is actually true. And so that, to me, the dichotomy of having that challenged actually made me stronger and made me seek out truth.

And when we ask, the doors are opened, and then when we seek, we’ll find, but when we get to a place where we don’t have to seek – and sometimes I think that’s what can happen at a Christian school or a Christian university is you just get spoon fed, and you don’t have to seek, you don’t have to look beyond, and you just go with the flow, and then when you’re actually challenged, it can become a train wreck or a shipwreck.

So to go into a place with the mindset of being ready, and I think that that’s the mindset that wherever we’re going in life, whether it’s into a church or whether it’s into a Christian school or a secular university or wherever we’re going – having that mindset of putting on the armor of Christ and being ready to take whatever we hear and grow from it, and be challenged by it. And have answers and seek out answers and seek out truth. And without that, I don’t …I know I wouldn’t be in ministry, and I wouldn’t be the person that I am today because I needed that challenge, I needed that time in my life – and continue to have that now working here…

Tom: Well, Em, I…we’re just about out of time, but I agree from our perception – for your mom and my perception. This may not have been for everybody, okay? So we’re not giving carte blanche to secular universities. But you guys were in the trenches, and all that you have just articulated reflected that, and that’s been our perception.

Now, Em, with no bias, with no prejudice – good stuff! I really appreciate it! So thanks for being with us on Search the Scriptures 24/7. So, God bless you, Sister, and …notice I said “Sister” because you are my sister in the Lord.

Emily: Thanks, Daddy-O!

Tom: (Laughing) Okay. Bye-bye!

Emily: (Laughing) Bye!

Gary: You’ve been listening to Search the Scriptures 24/7 with T.A. McMahon, a radio ministry of The Berean Call. We offer a wide variety of resources to help you in your study of God’s Word. For a complete list of materials and a free subscription to our monthly newsletter, contact us at PO Box 7019 Bend, Oregon 97708. Call us at 800.937.6638. Or visit our website at the bereancall.org. I’m Gary Carmichael. Thanks for tuning in, and we hope you can join us again next week. Until then, we encourage you to Search the Scriptures 24/7.